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[Rhea] Introducing the Bowhead

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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#861 - 2014-11-12 20:26:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


That is certainly not true for freighters/JFs going through Uedama/Niarja the last couple of months.

And why would I trade the complete safety of my travel fit battleship, without any need for scouts/escorts, for this? I mean accepting substantial risk for a minimal reduction in travel time? Sounds crazy.


Tens of thousands of freighters move through that system every week. The number of kills are on average a few dozen.


As for your "completely safe" battleship, it has half the tank of the bowhead.


That seems like a wildly inflated number. There just aren't that many freighter pilots or freighter trips.

And yes my battleship has fewer HP, but it also has an essentially infallible cloak + mwd trick, and can't really be bumped out of alignment. Not to mention a low sig radius and align time. How many travel fit battleships do you see dying in Uedama every week?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#862 - 2014-11-12 20:28:46 UTC
Bertucio wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


What exactly is wrong with countering a fleet with a fleet of your own?



Uh - maybe some of us don't have a fleet and want to play solo. Like I'd guess 90% of the freighter pilots want to fly it solo.

So what are you saying - we should all bow down to a bunch of yahoo gankers in Uedama because you think we should have fleets coming out of our butts to make it more balanced when you use a bunch of cheap dessies to take down a billion ISK freighter?

Or maybe we should make a freighter a FREIGHTER and make HI-SEC a place where new players, solo players, and Industrialists can feel relatively safe while all the yahoo cheap dessy pilots can go gank in low-sec or nul-sec where they really belong?


Or you can use some common sense and realise that when 40 people come after you screaming no fair I want to play alone isn't a valid tactic in a massively multiplayer online game
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#863 - 2014-11-12 20:30:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:

There is no point to fly the bowhead if you need more than 1.. ok, let's say 2 pilots.
In the same time you fly the bowhead 30 jumps you can move 4 ships in 2 trips with 2 pilots and have time left o go and buy a pizza.


We went over this, the bowheads were faster at transporting 3 battleships over 30 jumps by a sizeable margin.


It's usually 2 BSs and 2 Logi ships but because NM and Vindi are slower than Machariel, i'll take your word it.
At the end, you won't have time to go and buy a pizza... but, enough to go and take a beer from the fridge.
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#864 - 2014-11-12 20:31:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Bertucio wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


What exactly is wrong with countering a fleet with a fleet of your own?



Uh - maybe some of us don't have a fleet and want to play solo. Like I'd guess 90% of the freighter pilots want to fly it solo.

So what are you saying - we should all bow down to a bunch of yahoo gankers in Uedama because you think we should have fleets coming out of our butts to make it more balanced when you use a bunch of cheap dessies to take down a billion ISK freighter?

Or maybe we should make a freighter a FREIGHTER and make HI-SEC a place where new players, solo players, and Industrialists can feel relatively safe while all the yahoo cheap dessy pilots can go gank in low-sec or nul-sec where they really belong?


Or you can use some common sense and realise that when 40 people come after you screaming no fair I want to play alone isn't a valid tactic in a massively multiplayer online game

That would be true if didn't play ISBOXER ONLINE
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#865 - 2014-11-12 20:31:05 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

And yet, 99.999% of freighters are not ganked.



That is certainly not true for freighters/JFs going through Uedama/Niarja the last couple of months.

ooh it is time, here is the time where I get to completely destroy a poster using statistics

let's take a look at the freighter deaths in Niarja c/o zkillboard, noted kill accumulator and statistics haver

https://zkillboard.com/system/30003504/group/513/

wow, an average of less than one freighter ganked a day in niarja, with stretches of up to five days without any dying whatsoever

now let's go czech out uedama

https://zkillboard.com/system/30002768/group/513/

looks scarier, but mine eyes doth detect a trend

it looks like code dot only gets up to its antics on the weekends and even then only in ustz prime

jump freighter statistics paint an even thinner picture

please refrain from projecting the localized cognitive dissonance in your own head into these fine forums, you are doing a service to no one
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#866 - 2014-11-12 20:32:33 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


That is certainly not true for freighters/JFs going through Uedama/Niarja the last couple of months.

And why would I trade the complete safety of my travel fit battleship, without any need for scouts/escorts, for this? I mean accepting substantial risk for a minimal reduction in travel time? Sounds crazy.


Tens of thousands of freighters move through that system every week. The number of kills are on average a few dozen.


As for your "completely safe" battleship, it has half the tank of the bowhead.


That seems like a wildly inflated number. There just aren't that many freighter pilots or freighter trips.

And yes my battleship has fewer HP, but it also has an essentially infallible cloak + mwd trick, and can't really be bumped out of alignment. Not to mention a low sig radius and align time. How many travel fit battleships do you see dying in Uedama every week?


There are millions of freighter trips made every month across EVE. Amarr Jita is one of the busiest trade routes in the game.

As for your battleship, its rather easy to catch and gank. You don't bother to bump it.
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#867 - 2014-11-12 20:32:59 UTC
S'No Flake wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:

There is no point to fly the bowhead if you need more than 1.. ok, let's say 2 pilots.
In the same time you fly the bowhead 30 jumps you can move 4 ships in 2 trips with 2 pilots and have time left o go and buy a pizza.


We went over this, the bowheads were faster at transporting 3 battleships over 30 jumps by a sizeable margin.


It's usually 2 BSs and 2 Logi ships but because NM and Vindi are slower than Machariel, i'll take your word it.
At the end, you won't have time to go and buy a pizza... but, enough to go and take a beer from the fridge.


And please that's only true if you have High grade ascendancy full set ,at 1.37s au/S that is a different story...
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#868 - 2014-11-12 20:35:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


That is certainly not true for freighters/JFs going through Uedama/Niarja the last couple of months.

And why would I trade the complete safety of my travel fit battleship, without any need for scouts/escorts, for this? I mean accepting substantial risk for a minimal reduction in travel time? Sounds crazy.


Tens of thousands of freighters move through that system every week. The number of kills are on average a few dozen.


As for your "completely safe" battleship, it has half the tank of the bowhead.


But, it can fit 2x ASBs and a AAR with enough buffer... and, it can fit a few flights of ECM drones.
So yea, flying the BSs it's much better than the bowhead.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#869 - 2014-11-12 20:35:45 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

And yet, 99.999% of freighters are not ganked.



That is certainly not true for freighters/JFs going through Uedama/Niarja the last couple of months.

ooh it is time, here is the time where I get to completely destroy a poster using statistics

let's take a look at the freighter deaths in Niarja c/o zkillboard, noted kill accumulator and statistics haver

https://zkillboard.com/system/30003504/group/513/

wow, an average of less than one freighter ganked a day in niarja, with stretches of up to five days without any dying whatsoever

now let's go czech out uedama

https://zkillboard.com/system/30002768/group/513/

looks scarier, but mine eyes doth detect a trend

it looks like code dot only gets up to its antics on the weekends and even then only in ustz prime

jump freighter statistics paint an even thinner picture

please refrain from projecting the localized cognitive dissonance in your own head into these fine forums, you are doing a service to no one


That's a significant number of dead freighters....as opposed to essentially complete safety using a BS with cloak + MWD...why would I switch to a Bowhead when I am completely safe now?
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#870 - 2014-11-12 20:36:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Considering that your group just ganked a Jump freighter in Uedama with only a couple hundred million of cargo, costing you well over a billion in gank ships, does it really matter? I mean this freighter ganking is not being done for ISK, hence the joy of ganking even empty ships! The idea that putting less cargo in, or being unscannable, will actually deter the 2 major freighter ganking groups seems farfetched.


What makes you think there was no reason to gank this freighter alt?


Aha! I've found the flawed assumption on your part Baltec.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#871 - 2014-11-12 20:37:26 UTC
Any word on whether the ship bay on the Bowhead will allow ships to be boarded/stored/refit form space, or is it just for storage? In addition to moving large, fitted ships form point A to point B, I could see the Bowhead making for an interesting remote staging base.

I wonder how many assembled Catalysts could a Bowhead piloted by a neutral CODE. alt carry? Blink

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#872 - 2014-11-12 20:37:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Masao Kurata
tl;dr version: 605k EHP with a 400M fit and 300M pod

I'm just going to do the maths I did in post #200 again for tank (the agility's improved by 25%, I think even posters as innumerate as I'm seeing in this thread should be able to handle that), this time with updated HP and faction modules (reasonably priced ones! Fit price is in the post) to show just how ridiculously tanky the ship that you're still whining about is:

Damage Control II [1 MW, 30 tf]
Reinforced Bulkheads II [1 MW, 40 tf]
Reinforced Bulkheads II [1 MW, 40 tf]

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I [1250 MW, 75 tf]
Pith X-Type Thermic Dissipation Field [1 MW, 42 tf]
Pith A-Type Kinetic Deflection Field [1 MW, 39 tf]

Capital Transverse Bulkhead II [75 calibration]
Capital Transverse Bulkhead II [75 calibration]
Capital Transverse Bulkhead II [75 calibration]

1255/1687 MW, 266/268 tf, 225/400 calibration

http://evepraisal.com/e/3944332 800M HOWEVER that's mostly in the rigs, which there's no market for atm. If I substitute the rigs with the 133% materials...

http://evepraisal.com/e/3944367 415M ISK

Pod:

Zainou 'Gnome' Shield Management SM-705
Inherent Implants 'Noble' Mechanic MC-805

http://evepraisal.com/e/3944395 284M ISK

Versus void without heat: 542165 EHP = 395536 hull + 121742 shield + 24887 armor
Versus void with heat: 605158 EHP = 395536 hull + 184735 shield + 24887 armor
Versus EMP (lol) without heat (lol): 460410 EHP = 395536 hull + 36948 shield + 27926 armor
Versus void with everything switched off because you're AFK autopiloting like the moron you are: 218742 EHP = 158214 hull + 39375 shield + 21153 armor
Bertucio
Chandra Labs
#873 - 2014-11-12 20:38:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertucio
Jenn aSide wrote:


I highlighted your problem here. I WANT to be able to 1-2 jump my carrier to empire to ferry stuff around like I could for YEARS. Now, after a patch I'm 6 jumps deep in null sec and have to wait out jump fatigue every jump unless i want to wait longer next time.

CCP doesn't balanced the game based on what you 'want' to do, it balances stuff based on what's best for the game. No one is forcing you to use this ship. if you do use it and want to protect it, you need to stop being solo (like I did, now i have to ask people for cynos to get to to and from empire with ships, or hire a jump freighter). Simple as that.

and no to the high sec entitlement BS. high sec is still in EVE, the 'yahoos' have every right to play there if they choose.



So what you're saying here is that all the freighter pilots and there is a good majority of them right now who fly solo - shouldn't be entitled to it - and YOU should be entitled to gank them in cheap dessies because no one is forcing them to fly a freighter.

That's just silly. Yeah - I want to fly a freighter solo - AND SO DO A GOOD MAJORITY OF PLAYERS IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW.

The problem is not freighter pilots wanting to fly solo - the problem is a bunch of yahoo gankers in Uedama who are not taking much risk while they gank billion+ ISK ships in cheap dessies. That's the problem.

You can come up with your irrational arguments all you want. But dude - no one is going to be flying around in fleets in hi-sec just to make your gank squad happy. It just isn't going to happen.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#874 - 2014-11-12 20:38:36 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


That's a significant number of dead freighters....as opposed to essentially complete safety using a BS with cloak + MWD...why would I switch to a Bowhead when I am completely safe now?



Go look up the mission hubs, you will find a good deal of dead battleships.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#875 - 2014-11-12 20:40:39 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


That's a significant number of dead freighters....as opposed to essentially complete safety using a BS with cloak + MWD...why would I switch to a Bowhead when I am completely safe now?


The answer is "you shouldn't". only the completely entitled mind could think "new ship, ccp should give everyone a reason to use it without risk".

When I move to a new focus I nano+buffer fit my mach and put my mach's shiny fit in an UNSCANNABLE Prorator (or double wrap it and put in in a orca so I can also bring a Basi plus all my ammo).

If someone is dumb enough to put shiny Incursion fit ships in a scannable ship, they should pay for being dumb.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#876 - 2014-11-12 20:40:48 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

That's a significant number of dead freighters....as opposed to essentially complete safety using a BS with cloak + MWD...why would I switch to a Bowhead when I am completely safe now?

to be able to move multiple ships at once

if you're only moving one ship then yeah, don't bother

also speaking as someone who has decloaked and murdered nullified covert T3s in gatecamps, cloak + mwd trick is by no means complete safety

the fact that you view any amount of risk greater than zero as unacceptable does not merit adding more EHP to a 600k EHP ship
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#877 - 2014-11-12 20:40:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


That's a significant number of dead freighters....as opposed to essentially complete safety using a BS with cloak + MWD...why would I switch to a Bowhead when I am completely safe now?



Go look up the mission hubs, you will find a good deal of dead battleships.


I have...barely any...and almost all of those from wars or suspect baiting, not ganking. And the discussion here is while travelling...there are basically 0 dead battleships from ganking while travelling with cloak + mwd + travel fit. Essentially 100% safety. Any reason you think people will give that up for a Bowhead?
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#878 - 2014-11-12 20:41:45 UTC
Bertucio wrote:

fly a freighter solo - AND SO DO A GOOD MAJORITY OF PLAYERS IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW.

[citation needed]
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#879 - 2014-11-12 20:43:23 UTC
Bertucio wrote:



So what you're saying here is that all the freighter pilots and there is a good majority of them right now who fly solo - shouldn't be entitled to it - and YOU should be entitled to gank them in cheap dessies because no one is forcing them to fly a freighter.


I don't gank, im a pve player. No on is 'entitled' to anything.

Quote:

That's just silly. Yeah - I want to fly a freighter solo - AND SO DO A GOOD MAJORITY OF PLAYERS IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW.


Too bad.

Quote:

The problem is not freighter pilots wanting to fly solo - the problem is a bunch of yahoo gankers in Uedama who are not taking much risk while they gank billion+ ISK ships in cheap dessies. That's the problem.

You can come up with your irrational arguments all you want. But dude - no one is going to be flying around in fleets in hi-sec just to make your gank squad happy. It just isn't going to happen.


I don't care what makes gankers happy. I care about playing a sandbox game that doesn't coddle people like you as if it were a themepark game. No one is forcing you to do anything.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#880 - 2014-11-12 20:48:23 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


That's a significant number of dead freighters....as opposed to essentially complete safety using a BS with cloak + MWD...why would I switch to a Bowhead when I am completely safe now?



Go look up the mission hubs, you will find a good deal of dead battleships.


I have...barely any...and almost all of those from wars or suspect baiting, not ganking. And the discussion here is while travelling...there are basically 0 dead battleships from ganking while travelling with cloak + mwd + travel fit. Essentially 100% safety. Any reason you think people will give that up for a Bowhead?


First, its not 100% safety. Its rather easy to grab a battleship with a cloak.

Second, your travel fit battleship has even less tank than the ones getting ganked running missions

And finally, the bowhead gets a massive tank, carries a small fleet and when use in a convoy is next to impossible for gankers to kill.