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[Rhea] Introducing the Bowhead

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#681 - 2014-11-12 00:20:38 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:

ah yes the competitive atmosphere where no one uses suicide ganking, wardecs, or espionage to hamper the opfor

painting a hilariously narrow view of how you prefer to operate and then trying to pass it off as the ironclad reality of the situation is pretty funny

fact of the matter is that even if what you say is true, somehow, ccp is STILL not beholden to custom-tailor the ship towards your myopic needs because trying to balance the EHP of the ship against your gawdy nonsense is just as insane as you claim my views to be

Uh, except they actually did.
And the surviving incursion communities are those communities that have learnt to survive in that environment and overcome things like that.

This also once again is not a 'myopic vision'. This is CCP's vision statement that this ship will serve the needs of people like incursion runners to move their ships around high sec as required, and that any incidental value null gets out of it is simply a bonus for null.

You however (and I mean you personally) are campaigning to utterly destroy any use high sec could have for it while still keeping it perfectly intact for null use.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#682 - 2014-11-12 00:21:22 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Yes, it's a more rarified atmosphere of competition, which doesn't revolve around tears and blown up ships.

lmbo
Veers Belvar wrote:

CCP isn't "beholden" to anything, but to the extent that they want to help incursion runners move their ships around highsec, and apparently they do, it's important to design the ship in such a way that incursion runners will actually use it. Otherwise, why bother?

tail wagging the dog again

the ship isn't tailored specifically for incursioners

hell, the first post of the thread doesn't even mention incursions
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#683 - 2014-11-12 00:24:13 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Atomic Dove
Snip, Refrain from insults and personal attacks directed to other players - ISD Atomic Dove
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#684 - 2014-11-12 00:24:58 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Atomic Dove
Snip, quoting a rule breaking post that has since been removed. - ISD Atomic Dove
Fruckton Haulalot
EREBOR Logistics
Pillars of Liberty
#685 - 2014-11-12 00:25:37 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

Yes, it's a more rarified atmosphere of competition, which doesn't revolve around tears and blown up ships.

lmbo
Veers Belvar wrote:

CCP isn't "beholden" to anything, but to the extent that they want to help incursion runners move their ships around highsec, and apparently they do, it's important to design the ship in such a way that incursion runners will actually use it. Otherwise, why bother?

tail wagging the dog again

the ship isn't tailored specifically for incursioners

hell, the first post of the thread doesn't even mention incursions



acually this ship is tailored for incursioners specifically.... it original concept and thoughts of it were in forums by incursioners... it was also discussed at some length with incursion groups of what we wanted out of the ship concept...

supprised a forum troll like you was not aware that there have been numorous threads on this so saying its not tailored specifically for incursioners is not accurate..
They Left
NightSong Holdings
NightSong Directorate
#686 - 2014-11-12 00:26:28 UTC
since the bowhead is classified as a freighter...
and freighters are capital class ships...
and this is a ship meant to haul large amounts of ship hulls.

i can understand that the stats for the shields/armor/hull are what they are.

but since it has mid slots should it not be able to use a capital class mod such as a capital shield rep?
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#687 - 2014-11-12 00:28:43 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
You however (and I mean you personally) are campaigning to utterly destroy any use high sec could have for it while still keeping it perfectly intact for null use.

naw

i'm just stamping out some hilarious entitlement based on a ludicrous, unfounded fear of SUICIDE GANKING when actually being the victim of suicide ganking approaches lightning-strike probabilities

not to mention the supposition that ccp has an obligation to ensure you can use the ship inside of your tiny, aberrant view of how the game works

y'all talk about competition, what about the situation in which folks who can find a way to use the bowhead efficiently and safely outcompeting those of you who are terrified of suicide ganking due to being able to sashay towards the next incursion more effectively than the scareds

seems like something y'all might enjoy, if how you're posting about incursions is actually the case
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#688 - 2014-11-12 00:29:59 UTC
Fruckton Haulalot wrote:
acually this ship is tailored for incursioners specifically.... it original concept and thoughts of it were in forums by incursioners... it was also discussed at some length with incursion groups of what we wanted out of the ship concept...

supprised a forum troll like you was not aware that there have been numorous threads on this so saying its not tailored specifically for incursioners is not accurate..

even if everything you said is true and ccp's motivation for making this ship was lifted directly from incursioner wishlist threads, it STILL doesn't obligate them to kowtow to your every wish

i'm not sure how much more plainly I can put this, it is just not a thing they have to do
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#689 - 2014-11-12 00:31:59 UTC
Right, given that level of delusional posting, thanks for the Hide post function CCP, first person I've ever made use of it on. I don't mind Goon posters who will actually provide numbers and acknowledge reasonable counter arguments, I do mind utterly delusional posters who do nothing but mock, deride and belittle reasonable arguments while presenting none of their own.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#690 - 2014-11-12 00:32:29 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Fruckton Haulalot wrote:
acually this ship is tailored for incursioners specifically.... it original concept and thoughts of it were in forums by incursioners... it was also discussed at some length with incursion groups of what we wanted out of the ship concept...

supprised a forum troll like you was not aware that there have been numorous threads on this so saying its not tailored specifically for incursioners is not accurate..

even if everything you said is true and ccp's motivation for making this ship was lifted directly from incursioner wishlist threads, it STILL doesn't obligate them to kowtow to your every wish

i'm not sure how much more plainly I can put this, it is just not a thing they have to do


Well, since this ship is close to useless for everyone else in highsec...if it doesn't help incursion runners, why bother making it at all?

And if it is meant to help incursion runners, then I'm sure you would also want it made in such a way as to make incursion runners actually want to use it. Right?
Fruckton Haulalot
EREBOR Logistics
Pillars of Liberty
#691 - 2014-11-12 00:34:25 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Fruckton Haulalot wrote:
acually this ship is tailored for incursioners specifically.... it original concept and thoughts of it were in forums by incursioners... it was also discussed at some length with incursion groups of what we wanted out of the ship concept...

supprised a forum troll like you was not aware that there have been numorous threads on this so saying its not tailored specifically for incursioners is not accurate..

even if everything you said is true and ccp's motivation for making this ship was lifted directly from incursioner wishlist threads, it STILL doesn't obligate them to kowtow to your every wish

i'm not sure how much more plainly I can put this, it is just not a thing they have to do



its not a matter of "feeling of inttilement" its more of a matter dont waste time putting a ship in that both CCPs the CSMs and the incursioners have been kicking around for months almost a year into the game saying its what you asked for when its not.... all the time and energy wasted and feelings of trust and being part of community get slapped down when you take the concept say here its what you asked for ... then come to find its just gank bait or a way to make it easier for Ganker/greifers to destory what you worked hard to put together.


entitled no.... but promised somthing usefull then handed a gimpy waste of time ship yea a little resentment...
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#692 - 2014-11-12 00:35:11 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Atomic Dove
There are basically two possibilities how this will end here.

a) You create a ship with tank options, so the stupid player with no tank will lose his while the intelligent player with max tank and piloting skills may be too hard to gank.

b) You create an ungankable ship which will enable us to AFK ship all our prefitted ganking assets to every corner of Highsec with zero effort.

We will use whatever stuff you trow at us with max efficiency. As I have said many times already, this is not a war of carebears vs. ganker, this is a war of player who care about game mechanics against players who give about how the game works.


Snip, Please refrain from profanities - ISD Atomic Dove

Evil RatKid
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#693 - 2014-11-12 00:35:25 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Well, since this ship is close to useless for everyone else in highsec...if it doesn't help incursion runners, why bother making it at all?

And if it is meant to help incursion runners, then I'm sure you would also want it made in such a way as to make incursion runners actually want to use it. Right?

it's only useless if you are stupid when using it, simple as that

don't be dumb and you'll find yourself operating at a significant advantage over your rarified competlmbo i can't even say it

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Right, given that level of delusional posting, thanks for the Hide post function CCP, first person I've ever made use of it on. I don't mind Goon posters who will actually provide numbers and acknowledge reasonable counter arguments, I do mind utterly delusional posters who do nothing but mock, deride and belittle reasonable arguments while presenting none of their own.


breaking news, "limit your risk" is not a reasonable argument
Deadly Hobbitses
Furry Footed Felons
Brack Regen
#694 - 2014-11-12 00:39:26 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

Let us know what you think.

BOWHEAD

Ore Freighter Bonus:
5% bonus to inertia modifier per level
5% bonus to ship maintenance array capacity per level

Role Bonus:
90% reduction in jump fatigue generation


Slot layout: 0H, 3M, 3L, 3R; 0 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 1350 PWG, 215 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 21000 / 11000 / 39500
Capacitor (amount / recharge) : 3900 / 235000
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 65 / .0675 / 640000000 / 1.37 / 59.89s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 51.5km / 45 / 3
Capacity (cargo / ship maintenance array): 4000 / 1300000 (goes up to 1.6 something with ore freighter 5)
Sensor strength: 12
Signature radius: 3200

edit: base HP and bonuses updated based on feedback.


How about shaking things up a bit and adding a little bit of uniqueness to these things?

Increase base SMA volume to 1750000
Install 2.5LY jump drive
Adjust hp/capacitor as needed
Remove fatigue bonus

Role Bonus:
Jump drive gate scanner (renders vessel's jump drive capable of locking onto stargates remotely in the absence of a cynosural field)



When activated, the ship would be capable of using its jump drive to jump to a cyno or a gate in any system which is in range.
If a system is chosen, the ship would jump to a random gate in the system at normal jump-in range. This ability to shorten one's journey by means of bypassing some systems along the way would give the ship purpose while the low jump range and buildup of fatigue would help to prevent it being used as easily for force projection. In the case of highsec incursioners this might be enough of a buff to make it worth putting their shiny toys in as opposed to just flying them in a high hp travel fit.
Fruckton Haulalot
EREBOR Logistics
Pillars of Liberty
#695 - 2014-11-12 00:40:11 UTC
In no way am i saying make the ship immortal.

i am saying make it able to survive long enough for highsec concord to get there and save it. in lowsec nullsec.... fleets would destroy this thing with no real issues... but in high sec it should be so costly and difficult that folks dont bother trying to gank it.

the tank on this bowhead should be at least 10% better then an ORCA... or around 30% of a rorqual
Paranoid Loyd
#696 - 2014-11-12 00:44:32 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
And if it is meant to help incursion runners, then I'm sure you would also want it made in such a way as to make incursion runners actually want to use it. Right?

I will use it extensively and I have never even considered running incursions.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Fruckton Haulalot
EREBOR Logistics
Pillars of Liberty
#697 - 2014-11-12 00:45:15 UTC
Deadly Hobbitses wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Let us know what you think.

BOWHEAD

Ore Freighter Bonus:
5% bonus to inertia modifier per level
5% bonus to ship maintenance array capacity per level

Role Bonus:
90% reduction in jump fatigue generation


Slot layout: 0H, 3M, 3L, 3R; 0 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 1350 PWG, 215 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 21000 / 11000 / 39500
Capacitor (amount / recharge) : 3900 / 235000
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 65 / .0675 / 640000000 / 1.37 / 59.89s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 51.5km / 45 / 3
Capacity (cargo / ship maintenance array): 4000 / 1300000 (goes up to 1.6 something with ore freighter 5)
Sensor strength: 12
Signature radius: 3200

edit: base HP and bonuses updated based on feedback.


How about shaking things up a bit and adding a little bit of uniqueness to these things?

Increase base SMA volume to 1750000
Install 2.5LY jump drive
Adjust hp/capacitor as needed
Remove fatigue bonus

Role Bonus:
Jump drive gate scanner (renders vessel's jump drive capable of locking onto stargates remotely in the absence of a cynosural field)



When activated, the ship would be capable of using its jump drive to jump to a cyno or a gate in any system which is in range.
If a system is chosen, the ship would jump to a random gate in the system at normal jump-in range. This ability to shorten one's journey by means of bypassing some systems along the way would give the ship purpose while the low jump range and buildup of fatigue would help to prevent it being used as easily for force projection. In the case of highsec incursioners this might be enough of a buff to make it worth putting their shiny toys in as opposed to just flying them in a high hp travel fit.



Neat twist but goes back to the whole jump drive thing....

This should i feel should not be able to use jump drives or jump bridges for that matter.... moving the battleships inside from place the place is the purpose ofcourse... but some travel time still needs to be part of it.... otherwise you just have whole groups jumping the fleets instantly to new location... so the whole power projection becomes issues again...
MuffinAss
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#698 - 2014-11-12 00:49:18 UTC
yes- the ship can carry 3 Bs's , I don't know if it has been mentioned but, hi sec travelers will move 1 BS,T3, and alot of smaller ships, worm's,scanning ship,cruiser etc... SO buy using a insta warp alt in rapier/or equivalent can save alot of travel time due to the sheer amount of smaller ships need to fly and Bowhead will make things alot faster. yes 2 pliot gang is not worth moving 3 bs's but when you need to move alot of smalls it's worth it .
Deadly Hobbitses
Furry Footed Felons
Brack Regen
#699 - 2014-11-12 00:51:54 UTC
Fruckton Haulalot wrote:
Deadly Hobbitses wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Let us know what you think.

BOWHEAD

Ore Freighter Bonus:
5% bonus to inertia modifier per level
5% bonus to ship maintenance array capacity per level

Role Bonus:
90% reduction in jump fatigue generation


Slot layout: 0H, 3M, 3L, 3R; 0 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 1350 PWG, 215 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 21000 / 11000 / 39500
Capacitor (amount / recharge) : 3900 / 235000
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 65 / .0675 / 640000000 / 1.37 / 59.89s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 51.5km / 45 / 3
Capacity (cargo / ship maintenance array): 4000 / 1300000 (goes up to 1.6 something with ore freighter 5)
Sensor strength: 12
Signature radius: 3200

edit: base HP and bonuses updated based on feedback.


How about shaking things up a bit and adding a little bit of uniqueness to these things?

Increase base SMA volume to 1750000
Install 2.5LY jump drive
Adjust hp/capacitor as needed
Remove fatigue bonus

Role Bonus:
Jump drive gate scanner (renders vessel's jump drive capable of locking onto stargates remotely in the absence of a cynosural field)



When activated, the ship would be capable of using its jump drive to jump to a cyno or a gate in any system which is in range.
If a system is chosen, the ship would jump to a random gate in the system at normal jump-in range. This ability to shorten one's journey by means of bypassing some systems along the way would give the ship purpose while the low jump range and buildup of fatigue would help to prevent it being used as easily for force projection. In the case of highsec incursioners this might be enough of a buff to make it worth putting their shiny toys in as opposed to just flying them in a high hp travel fit.



Neat twist but goes back to the whole jump drive thing....

This should i feel should not be able to use jump drives or jump bridges for that matter.... moving the battleships inside from place the place is the purpose ofcourse... but some travel time still needs to be part of it.... otherwise you just have whole groups jumping the fleets instantly to new location... so the whole power projection becomes issues again...


It would move no faster than a carrier in nullsec and if used to jump about without cynos in lowsec, nullsec or when you have kill rights or are at war could have hilarious consequences. If the ship is incapable of moving vessels faster than a person could fly them manually it will prove to be of little or no use to anyone who doesn't want to just afk around in it.
captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#700 - 2014-11-12 01:00:48 UTC
I think my ships should be ungankable in highsec because