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[Rhea] Introducing the Bowhead

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Valterra Craven
#601 - 2014-11-11 19:49:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It has nothing to do with what is destroyed where (and incidentally, highsec systems sit at the top of the list of destroyed capital, see the FF2012 economy presentation) — it has to do with how you cannot allow one part of the game that level of safety without breaking the industrial-economical balance or the core design principle of letting players dictate how they play and where.

We have only very recently made strides towards letting players actually make that choice, free of moronic and damaging restrictions that have long proven to suffocate the game. What you are suggesting is that they not only return, but are made worse than ever.


So my argument was that hi sec ganking should not be a permanent career. Your counter was that if it wasn't that it would destroy the game because it would imbalance the cycle needed for things to work out properly, aka things created need to be destroyed.

But the problem is that this argument is nonsensical because the items destroyed in hi sec ganking do not equal, nor do they account for more than a few percentage points of the total output that hi sec produces. Further to the point, if what you say IS true, then all of the recent nerfs to ganking would have started a death spiral in the economy, when that has clearly not happened.
Fruckton Haulalot
EREBOR Logistics
Pillars of Liberty
#602 - 2014-11-11 19:51:04 UTC
again.... the ehp is not highe enough..... again at present... an ORCA fitt right can have over 450k ehp.... the BOWHEAD will be hauling far more valuble cargo... so it should be around 550k ehp at a minimum.....
Fruckton Haulalot
EREBOR Logistics
Pillars of Liberty
#603 - 2014-11-11 20:02:00 UTC
the Bowhead is a great idea... one that has been in the kicking around for months if not year or so.... but its a waiste of developement time to put a ship in the game that is not going to stand up against the kind of punishment "real" gankers are going to through at it..


A large group of gankers do not care about how much isk they spend vs how much they could get from kiling one of these Bowhead... they only care about getting the kill mail...

Most of the multi boxing gankers gank big pricey ships not for the reward of isk... but for the sheer pleasure they get from cause the victim pilot grief....

in short give this boat a chance to survive the GREIFERs attack....

PVP is all good, pirate play is fun.... but most of the time PVP in eve is a one sided deal... your either getting alphaed off the feild in seconds ... or your getting bumped around till the gankers can finish you off before concord shows up in highsec..


in low/null again most fights are one sided rearstompings.... there is not much real PVP... it Grief vs other players...
Fruckton Haulalot
EREBOR Logistics
Pillars of Liberty
#604 - 2014-11-11 20:13:50 UTC
the hull on the Bowhead should be about half.. or at lease 1/3 that of the Rorqual.... as this ship is about half the size of the Rorq.... the sheils should be about 30,000 and the armor should be about where it is now....

also please look at increasing the cargo hold a little... closer to 10k or add in an ammo bay that can hold around 5k


Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#605 - 2014-11-11 20:14:31 UTC
Querns wrote:
I love this constant assertion that being in highsec is somehow a requirement for new players. My organization is one of the most effective in the game at recruiting brand new players (to the exclusion of all over forms of recruitment, even!) and our policy is to tell newbies to abandon highsec entirely, the second they land in our corporation, and never look back. Hell — I, myself, having only played the game for four years, did exactly this when I was recruited.

Buying friends is not exactly optimal logic when you start to play a video game.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#606 - 2014-11-11 20:18:41 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Querns wrote:
I love this constant assertion that being in highsec is somehow a requirement for new players. My organization is one of the most effective in the game at recruiting brand new players (to the exclusion of all over forms of recruitment, even!) and our policy is to tell newbies to abandon highsec entirely, the second they land in our corporation, and never look back. Hell — I, myself, having only played the game for four years, did exactly this when I was recruited.

Buying friends is not exactly optimal logic when you start to play a video game.

At $10, how could you not? Shoot, I spent $10 for lunch today. Them's some cheap-ass friends.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#607 - 2014-11-11 20:20:05 UTC
Brotherhood Of The Tenbux Uber Alles

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Fruckton Haulalot
EREBOR Logistics
Pillars of Liberty
#608 - 2014-11-11 20:21:30 UTC
The whole idea of this boat is the give players a way to move their fleets around "mostly" in highsec. Not to give gankers a new easy target.

This ship also has alot of promising useful talents that will be used in wormwholes, lowsec, and nullsec.

But if please not try to figure out what it needs by basic numbers or stats... look at the real time play and attitudes of players.... Its not about how much it will cost... or how much i have to spend to kill one ... its about how usefull is this ship going to be..

Think of the nestor.... even with the well frankly last pathetic change to it with the almost useless fleet hanger that can not even carry an astero..... its still a very under used not in any way shape or form usefull ship for the masses....

Looking logically... this ship is about half the size of the Roqual right....


so give it 1/3 of the structure armor and sheils fo the roqual.... add in an ammo bay of 5k or increase the cargo bay up to 10k with skills or somthing
Valterra Craven
#609 - 2014-11-11 20:27:09 UTC
Querns wrote:

At $10, how could you not? Shoot, I spent $10 for lunch today. Them's some cheap-ass friends.


$10? I don't think even a year long sub is that cheap, nor is the plex value anywhere near that...? Please tell me how you play for 10 dollars a month....
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#610 - 2014-11-11 20:28:11 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Querns wrote:

At $10, how could you not? Shoot, I spent $10 for lunch today. Them's some cheap-ass friends.


$10? I don't think even a year long sub is that cheap, nor is the plex value anywhere near that...? Please tell me how you play for 10 dollars a month....

he's talking about the cost of a forums dot somethingawful dot com, premiere internet posting station and friend vending machine, account

also ahahahahahaha look at you idiots trying to draw parallels between real life society and eve
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#611 - 2014-11-11 20:29:01 UTC
like seriously

are you serious

is this a thing that is actually happening
Fruckton Haulalot
EREBOR Logistics
Pillars of Liberty
#612 - 2014-11-11 20:30:56 UTC
the pros and cons of PVP in highec... more honestly is pure ganking out side of Wardec..... is not the point of this thread... this is about the BOWHEAD... not game philosophy or how to stop ganking...


The matter is this bowhead should be a very tough to gank ship.... it should be a safer then current means of moving incruision ships around.... otherwise why should any of the many many incursioners use this ship instead of the current way they move thier stuff around ...
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#613 - 2014-11-11 20:32:19 UTC
I'm going to suggest that this ship be barred from taking gates into Null or Lowsec, or Jumping.
Make this ship hisec only so it doesn't promote further imbalance to nullsec power projection.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#614 - 2014-11-11 20:34:18 UTC
Querns wrote:
At $10, how could you not? Shoot, I spent $10 for lunch today. Them's some cheap-ass friends.


Damn, my lunches are like $14 a day :(
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#615 - 2014-11-11 20:35:10 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
I'm going to suggest that this ship be barred from taking gates into Null or Lowsec, or Jumping.
Make this ship hisec only so it doesn't promote further imbalance to nullsec power projection.

you're not very good at this fyi

i can just make the damn things in a pos or an outpost

try again, also interceptors are still faster
Fruckton Haulalot
EREBOR Logistics
Pillars of Liberty
#616 - 2014-11-11 20:36:25 UTC
and again i point out the fact... that current game machinics allow an ORCA to acheive a little over 450 ehp and still remain a very usefull and talented ship for many aspects not just mining command..


This Bowhead should be at least 20% TO 40% tougher then the Orca...
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#617 - 2014-11-11 20:38:08 UTC
Fruckton Haulalot wrote:
and again i point out the fact... that current game machinics allow an ORCA to acheive a little over 450 ehp and still remain a very usefull and talented ship for many aspects not just mining command..


This Bowhead should be at least 20% TO 40% tougher then the Orca...

the orca's current ehp is not intentional, it was due to the addition of hull rigs

and the orca has a lot of hull

using it as a comparison to the bowhead is p dumb and you should feel dumb
Suicide Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#618 - 2014-11-11 20:41:19 UTC
I've got it!

A Solution to make everyone unhappy.

Cut the EHP of the ship.. AND remove all 0.5 bottleneck systems in Highsec. Either by adding some additional gates to go around them, or changing them to say 0.7 systems..

There, now you get the easier kill, and we get to not be required to go through the most vulnerable systems in Highsec to move about. And now you actually have to hunt your prey, rather than just sit in a system where you know they have to go through just to move from A to B.
Fruckton Haulalot
EREBOR Logistics
Pillars of Liberty
#619 - 2014-11-11 20:42:09 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Fruckton Haulalot wrote:
and again i point out the fact... that current game machinics allow an ORCA to acheive a little over 450 ehp and still remain a very usefull and talented ship for many aspects not just mining command..


This Bowhead should be at least 20% TO 40% tougher then the Orca...

the orca's current ehp is not intentional, it was due to the addition of hull rigs

and the orca has a lot of hull

using it as a comparison to the bowhead is p dumb and you should feel dumb



the BOWhead is in line with the ORCA and the Rorqual... so use them as comparisons is a logical and justifiable means of figured where the Bowhead stats should be..

calling folks names only shows that your just trolling or you have no real helpfull suggestions for the Bowhead in either case your views are not relivent in this thread and keep disctracting from the topic.

The Bowhead from its first concept through the many many debates can and will be a great new ship with many new aspects and uses to the game.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#620 - 2014-11-11 20:45:17 UTC
Fruckton Haulalot wrote:

the BOWhead is in line with the ORCA and the Rorqual... so use them as comparisons is a logical and justifiable means of figured where the Bowhead stats should be..

this is not how ship balance works