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[Rhea] Introducing the Bowhead

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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#361 - 2014-11-11 00:07:58 UTC
Use a blockade runner to move your fittings, use the Bowhead to move the rigged & insured hulls. ALSO ENSURE YOU DON'T AUTOPILOT THROUGH UEDAMA, NIARJA, DELTOLE or other 0.5 choke points.

Perhaps consider running alongside the hauler with logistics cruisers to ensure that would-be gankers have to focus on alpha damage rather than 30s worth of shooting.

And let's see where it stands after a couple of months, perhaps when CCP sees nobody using it they will try buffing it to the point that people feel safe carrying three Nightmare hulls in one hauler.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#362 - 2014-11-11 00:07:59 UTC
Celly S wrote:
no it is not

part of the reason carriers (like all other combat capitals) were nerfed was due to the ability to travel across long distances in a matter of minutes and carriers can haul combat ships as well, if your statement was correct, CCP would have nerfed their tank and NOT their travel ability.

if you're asking for this new ship to have a jump drive and the 90% reduction in fatigue, then you're asking for an un-nerfed carrier, no matter how you try to make it seem otherwise.

I appreciate the reply, but stand by my original comment, if you want something to haul ships in that has a jump drive, you already have one, it' is called a carrier.

o/
Celly Smunt

No matter how loudly you yell with your fingers plugging your ears, you can't drown out the fact that carriers have significant combat ability, and it is that ability that lead to its restricted state. That you are unwilling to consider this fact is completely immaterial to reality.

Also, I never suggested that the Bowhead have a jump drive. I think a T2 version of the Bowhead should. After all, you're not calling for the restriction of the Jump Freighter, which does the exact same thing with packaged ships. All a jump-capable Bowhead would allow over a Jump Freighter is a minor reduction in cost and a minor increase in Quality of Life involved in packaging ships (destroying their rigs in the process.) Hell, a jump freighter can carry three times as many battleships in packaged form compared to a theoretical T2 Bowhead, and that's not even considering paralleling the trend with freighters and JFs whereupon the T2 version trades a significant portion of its hauling ability for the jump drive.

Too many people in this thread are making the fundamental mistake that rigging a ship is some manner of ironclad rubicon, upon which none may cross in the opposite direction.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#363 - 2014-11-11 00:13:26 UTC
Querns wrote:
That you are unwilling to consider this fact is completely immaterial to reality.
Well said! Whatever that actually means.

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Dreiden Kisada
State War Academy
Caldari State
#364 - 2014-11-11 00:15:51 UTC
I gotta say, that name is really bad.

Are you sure you didn't mean Bowsprit?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowsprit
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#365 - 2014-11-11 00:16:11 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Will probably give you guys updated numbers for HP and bonus change tomorrow, did want to address the jump fatigue generation thing which seems to be coming up a little bit at least.

Every 'hauler' in the game got this reduction because the fatigue change wasn't meant to hit logistics, this ship simply fits under that umbrella. It is not meant as any kind of special treatment or specific incentive to use it outside of high-sec. It's fine if that happens but I just wanted to point out that it's a role based bonus and that's all.


Very good idea, don't cave into null sec though as they'll soon start asking for fatigue reduction bonuses on combat ships.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

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Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#366 - 2014-11-11 00:18:45 UTC
Dreiden Kisada wrote:
I gotta say, that name is really bad.

Are you sure you didn't mean Bowsprit?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowsprit

That isn't a type of whale.

Quote:

The bowhead whale (Balaena mysticetus) is a species of the right whale family Balaenidae, in suborder Mysticeti and genus Balaena. A stocky dark-colored whale without a dorsal fin, it can grow to 20 m (66 ft) in length. This thick-bodied species can weigh 75 tonnes (74 long tons; 83 short tons) to 100 tonnes (98 long tons; 110 short tons).[3] It lives entirely in fertile Arctic and sub-Arctic waters, unlike other whales that migrate to feed or reproduce to low latitude waters. It was also known as Greenland right whale or Arctic whale. American whalemen called it the steeple-top, polar whale,[4] or Russia or Russian whale. The bowhead has the largest mouth of any animal.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#367 - 2014-11-11 00:19:49 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Will probably give you guys updated numbers for HP and bonus change tomorrow, did want to address the jump fatigue generation thing which seems to be coming up a little bit at least.

Every 'hauler' in the game got this reduction because the fatigue change wasn't meant to hit logistics, this ship simply fits under that umbrella. It is not meant as any kind of special treatment or specific incentive to use it outside of high-sec. It's fine if that happens but I just wanted to point out that it's a role based bonus and that's all.


Very good idea, don't cave into null sec though as they'll soon start asking for fatigue reduction bonuses on combat ships.

Are you kidding? We LOVE that combat ships have little to no fatigue bonuses. Hell, I'd be for removing the fatigue bonus on blackops BS and covert bridging, too.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#368 - 2014-11-11 00:27:10 UTC
Dreiden Kisada wrote:
I gotta say, that name is really bad.

As opposed to say… "Humpback", "Minke" or "Sperm"?
Yeah, Bowhead is just fine.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Ronen Osden
Ronen's NEW And Improved Mining Services
#369 - 2014-11-11 00:41:15 UTC
Why can't we all just get along?

All this ganking talk is rather depressing.

Non Est Mortale Quad Opto - What I Desire Is Not Mortal
Darryn Lowe
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#370 - 2014-11-11 00:55:08 UTC
Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. This is the ship I've been waiting forever for.

Do you know how brilliant for moving around this ship is going to be?

Can we get a free one for being good boys and girls please. :-)
Kristian Hackett
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#371 - 2014-11-11 00:55:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kristian Hackett
Time to add my two cents...

I find it absolutely hilarious how many people are going on and on about the drop mechanic of SMA's / SMB's and about making this an unappetizing target for gankers and what not. Here's what you really need to be paying attention to - kill mails and how much ISK was destroyed. The second the Bowhead starts flying, be it in high sec, low sec or null sec, the hunt will be on. People were blapping the Barghest just for the hell of it due to how damn expensive the hull was when it came out and the Bowhead will be no different. In fact, the Bowhead will be an even bigger target because who knows what kind of treasure it might hold for the killboards to gawk at. As for the whole Titan Bridge blah blah blah, considering the insane amount of espionage that occurs in this game, BLOPS fleets will be out in force hunting for these the second the intel channels say one is on the move.

In case y'all were not paying attention, RvB Ganked just did a HIGH SEC GANK roam. Just for the freakin' hell of it. There are public BLOPS fleets looking for nice juicy targets running every day. The Bowhead will quite literally be the great white whale and every PVP'er that cares more about how much ISK they destroy than what loot they gather will be going the full Ahab.

That being said, CCP, if you want people to actually fly these things, make them align faster with more bump resistance. No one cares about top speed for survivability, it's all about how quickly they can get into warp.

Aircraft Maintenance - Using a high school diploma to fix what a college degree just f***ed up. "Life is too short to drink cheap beer."
Doritos God Legend
Perkone
Caldari State
#372 - 2014-11-11 01:01:30 UTC
I don't understand why this ship wasn't placed as a Transport IV-V ship. Instead you are adding an entirely new skill just for one ship.
Kristian Hackett
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#373 - 2014-11-11 01:03:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kristian Hackett
Doritos God Legend wrote:
I don't understand why this ship wasn't placed as a Transport IV-V ship. Instead you are adding an entirely new skill just for one ship.

This thing is right in the skillchain my Noctis/Orca/Freighter alt is currently working on. Not that she'll ever fly one at the current stats. Considering that every empire has it's own freighter skill the ORE Freighter makes sense.

Aircraft Maintenance - Using a high school diploma to fix what a college degree just f***ed up. "Life is too short to drink cheap beer."
Marsan
#374 - 2014-11-11 01:04:56 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

I think it's been said other places but as far as loot - we hope to get a change ready in time for Rhea that will make SMA loot work the same as CHAs where the contents will be inside the wreck on ship death, it's still not totally clear if that will happen in time but it would be in the following release if not.

I'm not convinced about the EHP needing to be higher but I'll bring this to the rest of the team and get back to you.


Up until this point I was thinking the EHP wasn't that bad, but now it make no sense for your intended user base. The average incursion runners ship is at it's lowest 500M, but more often 2-3x that. Once a freighter gets over the magic profit to loss ratio around 1B it's a major gank target. The only thing that was keeping this from happening was that there was no loot to be had. Now I'm sure someone could strip fittings and web the tug, but then you might as well fly the ships over yourself. In my experience most incursion runners have at least one shield and one armor BS or a pair of logis and a BS their ship value is going to be to high.

On the other hand I still love this ship personally. I'm not an incursion runner and I every time I relocate I have to move a bunch of ships around. (PVE, Hauling, PVP*, Exploration, Mining**...) Given I don't tend to bling my ships I'm not worth ganking.

* Not PVP in that I'm going to blow up your ship sense, but more in the running away or making you run away sense. Fitting a point is for people who care about their killboard.
** For meetings where I'm dialed in from home. Also it's easier to sell modules than looted blueprint copies and minerals.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Dreiden Kisada
State War Academy
Caldari State
#375 - 2014-11-11 01:06:32 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Dreiden Kisada wrote:
I gotta say, that name is really bad.

As opposed to say… "Humpback", "Minke" or "Sperm"?
Yeah, Bowhead is just fine.


Humpback is way better than Bowhead. Then there's also Narwhal. That's a whale.

Bowhead sounds like someone saying Towelface. It's like two words who never should have been together had a "thing" at EVE Vegas and now have to live with the consequences.
Marsan
#376 - 2014-11-11 01:10:04 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Darirol wrote:
why do all those industrial ships have a speed bonus?


Because travel speed is one of the most important characteristics for haulers. Capacity, gank resilience and travel speed are basically it.


Honestly I put time to warp and time to align before either.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Ele Rebellion
Vertex Armada
The Initiative.
#377 - 2014-11-11 01:24:15 UTC
Roughly 1.6M m3 at level 5 skills.

Packaged Thanatos 1.3M m3. Has this been taken into consideration?
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#378 - 2014-11-11 01:27:34 UTC
Ele Rebellion wrote:
Roughly 1.6M m3 at level 5 skills.

Packaged Thanatos 1.3M m3. Has this been taken into consideration?


Yes, because you can't put packaged ships into a ship maintenance bay...
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#379 - 2014-11-11 01:30:18 UTC
People keep saying 1b ISK as the magic threshold for freighters like a mantra as if a) this ship has freighter EHP (it doesn't, it has a lot more) and b) as if freighter EHP hasn't ever changed (it got increased a lot in Kronos) c) this ship has freighter mobility (it has mobility more like an orca with one mwd cycle to get into warp). Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#380 - 2014-11-11 01:31:35 UTC
Dreiden Kisada wrote:
Humpback is way better than Bowhead. Then there's also Narwhal. That's a whale.

(insert) Humpback joke here. With that name, it could potentially even rival the Nestor for notoriety… As much as I like Narwhal, being predatory in nature it doesn't really fit with the intent for this particular ship. Now an ORE AMC (armed merchant cruiser) called the Narwhal - totally down for that.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.