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Why I don't go to lowsec.

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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#101 - 2014-11-10 16:32:00 UTC
Darth Schweinebacke wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


As to the rest....Incursions are far, far risker than L4s, than AFK carrier ratting in Deklein, than AFK mining in sov null, than escalations in well controlled wormhole space, etc... Basically, the player powerblocs have made their space vastly safer than empire can ever be.



The only risk in incursions is letting logi pilots into your fleet who do not know wtf they are doing which can easily be mitigated by using them as extra logi pilot on grid while you keep your trusted logis on field

(Veers: but that is bad for the ISK / hour)

Who cares?

Risk in eve can not be measured on the possibility of someone in your fleet being stupid but rather the possibilty of other players interfering with your business and the risk of that happening in 0.0 or LS is by far larger than it is in high sec.

If 0.0 is made safer than high sec this is only achieved by actually investing time into doing so, while in high sec you get the biggest chunk of your safety handed to you by ccp. And in 0.0 even with intel channels and everything the risk still remains and you need to constanlty pay attention to local and intel channels, while in high sec in most cases you only have to worry if you make yourself a target.

Also not everyone who would want to make ISK in 0.0 is in an alliance and has access to intel channels, should those people not be rewarded for taking a much larger risk than people in high sec?

btw. you sound a lot like IZ (if not even exactly like that)


Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game. Running extra logi is stupid, and means you would be much better off blitzing SOE L4s (which is already higher isk/hour if you account for time spent moving, no fleet, half empty fleet, etc...)

Who cares if 0.0 is safe because the big alliances made a huge blue donut? There are far more tools to ensure safety there. Bubbles, docking denials, ability to shoot on sight, etc.... Highsec is far scarier than Deklein...and the fact is that in highsec people would be afraid to AFK rat in carriers. CODE would salivate at that one.

Alliances are easy to join and are crippling the game. If you care about risk/reward, you need to nerf Deklein and the like into oblivion. Of course you don't really care about risk/reward, all you care about is nerfing highsec, so we will never see you propose to abolish all mining, missions, and ratting in Deklein to account for it's total safety.

And I have no idea who IZ is, sorry.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2014-11-10 16:50:12 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game


Wormhole pilots say LOLWTF
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#103 - 2014-11-10 16:56:44 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game


Wormhole pilots say LOLWTF


Oh yes, because it's so HARD to run sites with dreds and triage carriers. RollShocked
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#104 - 2014-11-10 16:59:33 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game


Wormhole pilots say LOLWTF


Oh yes, because it's so HARD to run sites with dreds and triage carriers. RollShocked


It is no wonder people ridicule you, it's obvious you have no idea what you're on about.

People lose caps to sleepers. Incursions indeed....pfffffffft.

Put on the big boy pants and go try it.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#105 - 2014-11-10 17:04:45 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game


Wormhole pilots say LOLWTF


Oh yes, because it's so HARD to run sites with dreds and triage carriers. RollShocked


It is no wonder people ridicule you, it's obvious you have no idea what you're on about.

People lose caps to sleepers. Incursions indeed....pfffffffft.

Put on the big boy pants and go try it.


The wormhole aggro is extremely easy to handle. The fleet doctrines to comfortably handle these sites are trivial. And the isk/hour (200 mil + in a C6) is unmatched in the game.

I have run some wormhole sites, I found them boring, repetitive, and virtually risk free as long as you have good control over the hole.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#106 - 2014-11-10 17:05:22 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game


Wormhole pilots say LOLWTF


You can tell that the guy never experienced most of the other PVE he talks about, and that's where he outs himself as a poser. Incursion (especially high sec incursions) is one of the safer PVe activities, most incursions runners will never lose so much as a single logi ship running them.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#107 - 2014-11-10 17:07:15 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game


Wormhole pilots say LOLWTF


Oh yes, because it's so HARD to run sites with dreds and triage carriers. RollShocked


It is no wonder people ridicule you, it's obvious you have no idea what you're on about.

People lose caps to sleepers. Incursions indeed....pfffffffft.

Put on the big boy pants and go try it.


The wormhole aggro is extremely easy to handle. The fleet doctrines to comfortably handle these sites are trivial. And the isk/hour (200 mil + in a C6) is unmatched in the game.

I have run some wormhole sites, I found them boring, repetitive, and virtually risk free as long as you have good control over the hole.


And then you keep outing yourself as someone unfamiliar with PVE. 200 mil is "unmatched in the game"? LOL, what game are you playing?
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#108 - 2014-11-10 17:08:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Veers Belvar
Jenn aSide wrote:


And then you keep outing yourself as someone unfamiliar with PVE. 200 mil is "unmatched in the game"? LOL, what game are you playing?


I said 200 mil + (the C6 folks say its closer to 250 mil - I'm skeptical....) - what other activity done on a regular basis gives you that kind of isk? Remember our null friends cry that they can't match the 100 mil/hour from running L4s in highsec.

Edit - also remember that we are talking about activities with virtually no risk - which would not be true for L5s, escalations, etc... in NPC null.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#109 - 2014-11-10 17:17:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Veers Belvar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


And then you keep outing yourself as someone unfamiliar with PVE. 200 mil is "unmatched in the game"? LOL, what game are you playing?


I said 200 mil + (the C6 folks say its closer to 250 mil - I'm skeptical....) - what other activity done on a regular basis gives you that kind of isk? Remember our null friends cry that they can't match the 100 mil/hour from running L4s in highsec.

Edit - also remember that we are talking about activities with virtually no risk - which would not be true for L5s, escalations, etc... in NPC null.


Try 600 mil per character in C6s. Try 500 to a bil an hour in low sec lvl 5s (blitzing, with a carrier). Try up to 600 mil in faction warfare with a bomber, drake or caracal (down to 350 mil ish now for the 2 factions I have toons in, but hell, it's still worth the occasional stealth bomber loss).

Hell, you can blitz burner missions for 300 mil per hour and lets not even start on the 300 mil per hour low sec mission blitzing with cheap ships


That's the problem with you Veers, you speak with authority about things yet you don't know what you are talking about. Rather than learn something about a topic, you spew off as if you know about it already, which is why you never learn or get better. if you spend more time listening and less time posting, you might not be so odious.

Oh, and this post on reddit is pretty good. http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/24ddbs/what_are_better_ways_of_making_isk_than_hq/

Quote:
[–]Lords_ServantGuristas 21 points 6 months ago

Per single character:

FW Mission Blitzing - 100m-600m

C5/C6 Anoms - 400-600m/hr

Lvl 5 blitzing - 100-500m/hr

Lvl 4 losec blitzing for good corp - 150-300m/hr

Pirate Lvl 4s - 200-400m/hr

c4 Anom Blitzing - 100-350m/hr

c3 anom blitzing - 100-200m/hr

Pubbie Carrier Ratting - 100-150m isk/hr

Some require multiple ppl or chars, but those are the breakdowns on a per character basis.

I left out a unique method of running nullsec anoms, as that requires multiboxed characters, but it makes 150-250m/hour per character, depending on if you run escalations - but those aren't really said anoms tbh.





"(200 mil + in a C6) is unmatched in the game. " lol, poser.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#110 - 2014-11-10 17:23:30 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


And then you keep outing yourself as someone unfamiliar with PVE. 200 mil is "unmatched in the game"? LOL, what game are you playing?


I said 200 mil + (the C6 folks say its closer to 250 mil - I'm skeptical....) - what other activity done on a regular basis gives you that kind of isk? Remember our null friends cry that they can't match the 100 mil/hour from running L4s in highsec.

Edit - also remember that we are talking about activities with virtually no risk - which would not be true for L5s, escalations, etc... in NPC null.


Try 600 mil per character in C6s. Try 500 to a bil an hour in low sec lvl 5s (blitzing, with a carrier). Try up to 600 mil in faction warfare with a bomber, drake or caracal (down to 350 mil ish now for the 2 factions I have toons in, but hell, it's still worth the occasional stealth bomber loss).

Hell, you can blitz burner missions for 300 mil per hour and lets not even start on the 300 mil per hour low sec mission blitzing with cheap ships


That's the problem with you Veers, you speak with authority about things yet you don't know what you are talking about. Rather than learn something about a topic, you spew off as if you know about it already, which is why you never learn or get better. if you spend more time listening and less time posting, you might not be so odious.



Oh nonsense, you are really clueless about this game Jenn. You just make up funny numbers and wonder why people don't take you seriously. No one is making 600 mil per char in C6s....and L5's are very dangerous in lowsec (pirates love people who run them!), and even fw runners are getting ganked. There is a reason Goon alts are blitzing L4s for 100 mil/hour - the other things you mention are not safe, are a limited resource, and usually require participation in some kind of alliance.

Ask yourself - if these activities were so lucrative, why would we see so many threads here whining about L4 & incursion rewards in highsec???? I mean seriously, get a clue.

That's the problem with you - you talk a lot, but even a bit of thinking before posting you don't do!
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#111 - 2014-11-10 17:33:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Veers Belvar wrote:


Oh nonsense, you are really clueless about this game Jenn. You just make up funny numbers and wonder why people don't take you seriously. No one is making 600 mil per char in C6s....and L5's are very dangerous in lowsec (pirates love people who run them!), and even fw runners are getting ganked. There is a reason Goon alts are blitzing L4s for 100 mil/hour - the other things you mention are not safe, are a limited resource, and usually require participation in some kind of alliance.

Ask yourself - if these activities were so lucrative, why would we see so many threads here whining about L4 & incursion rewards in highsec???? I mean seriously, get a clue.

That's the problem with you - you talk a lot, but even a bit of thinking before posting you don't do!


There it is, that 'backfire post' you used to do with another character when a shot on the forum would hit home lol. You know, where you try to turn around your cluelessness as if it were someone else doing it. We see you Divine Entervention.

How can i 'make up' numbers other people have documented? Did I make up this youtube video?

Or this post?

Or the reddit I linked?

Or maybe I made up this link in the wormhole section of these forums that is STICKIED by the forum admins for all to see?

Meanwhile, not a single shred of evidence from you lol...... Not.a.shred.

I know being outed as someone who is lying on a video game forum must hurt, but it's not my fault Mr. "200 mil is unmatched in the game" LOL.
Darth Schweinebacke
Wings of Fury.
#112 - 2014-11-10 17:34:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Schweinebacke
Veers Belvar wrote:


Incursions rats hit very, very hard, and often split aggro. Even good players end up losing ships. It's vastly harder than L4s, anoms, L5s, escalations, etc... It is by far the most dangerous PvE content in the game. Running extra logi is stupid, and means you would be much better off blitzing SOE L4s (which is already higher isk/hour if you account for time spent moving, no fleet, half empty fleet, etc...)



I did run my own incursion fleet for quite some time (some ppl still might remember scrubfleet -> the people who started the whole armor vindi thing) and the only people who lost ships were people who made mistakes like running into sites before the fleet was ready.

And as predicted -> extra logi is stupid because of less ISK / hour. Taking precautions when flying with unknown ppl is not acceptable when it hits your isk / hour ratio. I can only laugh about that. Just because you refuse to do what it takes to reduce the risk, it does not mean that it is not possible, and 1 extra ship does not hurt the payout as much as you pretend, at least not when the rest of the fleet is a proper fleet.



Veers Belvar wrote:


Who cares if 0.0 is safe because the big alliances made a huge blue donut? There are far more tools to ensure safety there. Bubbles, docking denials, ability to shoot on sight, etc.... Highsec is far scarier than Deklein...and the fact is that in highsec people would be afraid to AFK rat in carriers. CODE would salivate at that one.



The blue donut only makes 0.0 boring as hell and while it reduces the number of people coming after you it does not change the fact that people have to put effort into securing their space while high sec is relativly safe by default.

Also lol at CODE killing AFK ratting carriers. Do you even have any idea how expansive it would be to suicide a carrier?

Veers Belvar wrote:


Alliances are easy to join and are crippling the game. If you care about risk/reward, you need to nerf Deklein and the like into oblivion. Of course you don't really care about risk/reward, all you care about is nerfing highsec, so we will never see you propose to abolish all mining, missions, and ratting in Deklein to account for it's total safety.



Sure I care about risk / reward:

Risk in 0.0 without the effort ppl put into making it safe -> very high
Riks in high sec without ppl putting any effort into it -> almost none
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#113 - 2014-11-10 17:50:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Veers Belvar wrote:
That's the problem with you - you talk a lot, but even a bit of thinking before posting you don't do!
This thread isn't about you, stop projecting your personal failings on to others.

100M-150M+ an hour is attainable in a c3/c4*, I don't see a much greater income in a c5/c6 being outside the realms of possibility, especially if people are escalating sites with capitals, the escalations don't occur in c1-c4 w-space IIRC.

*figures taken from this thread by Corbexx

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2014-11-10 17:56:36 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
And I have no idea who IZ is, sorry.

i forgive you
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#115 - 2014-11-10 17:57:54 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


Oh nonsense, you are really clueless about this game Jenn. You just make up funny numbers and wonder why people don't take you seriously. No one is making 600 mil per char in C6s....and L5's are very dangerous in lowsec (pirates love people who run them!), and even fw runners are getting ganked. There is a reason Goon alts are blitzing L4s for 100 mil/hour - the other things you mention are not safe, are a limited resource, and usually require participation in some kind of alliance.

Ask yourself - if these activities were so lucrative, why would we see so many threads here whining about L4 & incursion rewards in highsec???? I mean seriously, get a clue.

That's the problem with you - you talk a lot, but even a bit of thinking before posting you don't do!


There it is, that 'backfire post' you used to do with another character when a shot on the forum would hit home lol. You know, where you try to turn around your cluelessness as if it were someone else doing it. We see you Divine Entervention.

How can i 'make up' numbers other people have documented? Did I make up this youtube video?

Or this post?

Or the reddit I linked?

Or maybe I made up this link in the wormhole section of these forums that is STICKIED by the forum admins for all to see?

Meanwhile, not a single shred of evidence from you lol...... Not.a.shred.

I know being outed as someone who is lying on a video game forum must hurt, but it's not my fault Mr. "200 mil is unmatched in the game" LOL.


As usual, you mistake the ability to earn such isk over a short span, and with risk, for the ability to do it with regularity and over a long period of time.

And as usual, you simply fail to address the elephant in the room here.

If your numbers were right (absurd, of course), why would the forums be inundated with threads about highsec being so lucrative that everyone is moving there, and that highsec rewards make low/null/wh space nonviable to live in...and that the players are better off running highsec L4s at 100 mil an hour?????

How do you explain the endless nerf highsec because it is killing the game threads????

Are all these people lying? Are they simply uninformed about how much isk they could be making? Or is there perhaps a lot more going on than you are grasping!
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#116 - 2014-11-10 18:00:02 UTC
Darth Schweinebacke wrote:


Sure I care about risk / reward:

Risk in 0.0 without the effort ppl put into making it safe -> very high
Riks in high sec without ppl putting any effort into it -> almost none


Why should line null players get buffed rewards because OTHER PEOPLE put effort into negotiation mega-alliances? How is that good for the game? Our PvE rewards should now revolve around the ability to create LESS conflict? I mean seriously, if we want to reward nullsec for creating farmville, why not just abolish it and make everything highsec?
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2014-11-10 18:01:02 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
How do you explain the endless nerf highsec because it is killing the game threads????

i hear so much about those threads. where are they?

what are your thoughts on the deudly shield proteus. it can make up to 800mil an hour in goonsec running sigs
Darth Schweinebacke
Wings of Fury.
#118 - 2014-11-10 18:03:35 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Darth Schweinebacke wrote:


Sure I care about risk / reward:

Risk in 0.0 without the effort ppl put into making it safe -> very high
Riks in high sec without ppl putting any effort into it -> almost none


Why should line null players get buffed rewards because OTHER PEOPLE put effort into negotiation mega-alliances? How is that good for the game? Our PvE rewards should now revolve around the ability to create LESS conflict? I mean seriously, if we want to reward nullsec for creating farmville, why not just abolish it and make everything highsec?


Now you are just trolling, nobody can be that daft.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#119 - 2014-11-10 18:05:34 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
How do you explain the endless nerf highsec because it is killing the game threads????

i hear so much about those threads. where are they?

what are your thoughts on the deudly shield proteus. it can make up to 800mil an hour in goonsec running sigs


Here is one https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=384621&find=unread

They tend to get instalocked these days because the forums were getting flooded with them. Notice that that one is by one of the leaders of Goons, and many other top level Goons have expressed the same sentiment - that their line pilots have no reason to live in null because they can get BETTER rewards in highsec....which disproves everything Jenn is saying.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#120 - 2014-11-10 18:06:45 UTC
Darth Schweinebacke wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Darth Schweinebacke wrote:


Sure I care about risk / reward:

Risk in 0.0 without the effort ppl put into making it safe -> very high
Riks in high sec without ppl putting any effort into it -> almost none


Why should line null players get buffed rewards because OTHER PEOPLE put effort into negotiation mega-alliances? How is that good for the game? Our PvE rewards should now revolve around the ability to create LESS conflict? I mean seriously, if we want to reward nullsec for creating farmville, why not just abolish it and make everything highsec?


Now you are just trolling, nobody can be that daft.


Yes...the idea that you should not receive buffed rewards because your alliance leaders created a massive blue donut and turned nullsec into farmville is obviously trolling. RollShockedWhat?Pirate