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TIDI is killing EVE Online

First post
Author
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#21 - 2014-11-11 16:01:55 UTC
isn't artificially limiting the number of people from each side that can access a battle essentially creating a LITTLE FAKE FIGHT?
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#22 - 2014-11-11 16:43:02 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
isn't artificially limiting the number of people from each side that can access a battle essentially creating a LITTLE FAKE FIGHT?


Yes, but grrrr, time dilation.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Buma Firuu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-11-11 17:55:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Buma Firuu
Benny Ohu wrote:
isn't artificially limiting the number of people from each side that can access a battle essentially creating a LITTLE FAKE FIGHT?



All right , all right, you got me !

I made a mistake when I began to think and speak about a possible solution.

But I'm not making a mistake hitting and addressing the white elephant in the room of Eve Online and
game experience quality.

Playing a battle in very slow motion for 20 hours (that should had been 2 hours long) as has happened in the past must not be fun and not a good game experience at all.
At the most it is grinding at the maximum capabilities for a human being when dealing with internet spaceships.
I don't think grinding is fun, do you ?

And as for the little fake fights, if they come with good quality in graphics and client/server performance, then they will
be much better than, "big" and Lol "unlimited" fights, and won't be fake but only little and controlled funny fights.

If you do the math, one big fight with TiDi is just a little fight expanded in time scale, but with no fun at all.

At last , Benny I don't expect real fights in EVE, but just the same game performance in all aspects or situations of the game.The laws of the universe (game performance) must not change , even if a magic number (TiDi trigger) of internet-spaceships hits a solar system or grid.

It is better to have a funny little universe with unchangeable laws (good game performance) ,than a "big" "unlimited" universe with laws depending on a magic number, the number of GOD TiDi.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#24 - 2014-11-11 19:22:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Ireland VonVicious
These problems exist because of alliances.

Get rid of alliances in Eve.

The groups are too big and ruin the fun of the game.

Alliances were added to get rid of the marking people blue alliance that existed before.
Formal alliance was made to replace those rag tag versions.

All that happen was those became formal and then the rag tag coalition sprung to life.

The system has never been able to handle the problems this has caused.

It did get the game lots of press due to the fight sizes and CCP figures it was worth it as it brought people to the game.
Shortly after it ran more people out of the game than it ever brought in and Null sec has been broken from that point forward.

Without this big mistake this game could have been so much more than it is today.

Lack of incentive for null sec.
Huge power blocks.
Renter space. (( Why the hell would they allow this? ))
Tidi / lag.

It was a good idea gone bad.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2014-12-17 10:35:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
Formal alliance was made to replace those rag tag versions.

All that happen was those became formal and then the rag tag coalition sprung to life.

The system has never been able to handle the problems this has caused.

A huge leap of logic here, as far as I can tell. So you're saying that when alliances were acknowledged by CCP, something that people were doing anyways somehow "sprang to life"?

As for OP: as you've been told already, your issue is on the list. It will get better, eventually. That's the best you can expect from devs to do with this troubled game.
I agree, something that often serves as a public face of EVE should work. We'll be there.

Until then you have time to enjoy other aspects of EVE you could be missing.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#26 - 2014-12-17 14:38:44 UTC
I think the main point is prior to TiDi, the node just crashed....nothign happened, everyone logged off and went to bed, fight was over in 20 minutes

TiDi fixed that and now a 2 hour fights takes 18 hours

The problem with limiting systems was brought up for probably the first year after TiDi and continues to raise its ugly head time and time again

There is no way to make a fair go of it unless you did an arena like setup.


For instance, if BNI was defending HED-GP against PL and PL brought a 200 man Wrecking Balla nd BNI brought whatever, PL would be invincible because BNI would never be able to call in backups as the 200 people would be limited to BNI alliance, so BL or no one else could enter based on PL taking up the other 200 slots.

I am sure that wouldn't cause any more tears than are already there, but think about it long and hard before it comes down to:

You might get what you are asking for
Iain Cariaba
#27 - 2014-12-17 22:35:44 UTC
Another example of why limiting people in system is bad. Let's use OP's suggestion of limiting to 200 defending alliance and 200 non-defending alliance.

Say Legion of xXDeathXx wants to take one of Bastion's systems. Legion fleet of 200, because that's the cap, starts to form, and CFC spais get word to Bastion, who form their own 200 man fleet. Then, Circle of Two forms their own 200 man fleet, and flies over to assist the Bastion fleet, with both Bastion and CO2 fleets arriving before Legion of xXDeathXx.

According to OP's suggestion, Legion of xXDeathXx will never get a chance to even enter the system. The 200 'sov holder' cap has been met by Bastion, and the 200 'non-sov holder' cap has been met by CO2, thereby removing the ability of anyone else to enter the system.

You can use nearly the exact same example to cover pretty much any variation of system player caps, just adjust the numbers to match whatever arbitrary number is given for player cap. Regardless of how you want to spin it, it will always boil down to whichever group hits the cap will lock everyone else out.
Brisco County
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-12-18 08:42:26 UTC
tidi isn't that bad. Back in the day when my pubic hairs still had some color to them, if the server got too many commands it would just break the wrist and walk away like rexkwondo. At least now it queues up every command and processes them in the order that they're received.
Eleven Gage
Doomheim
#29 - 2014-12-22 12:22:47 UTC
That aspect of the game will not be fixed until CCP releases the strangle hold on multiboxing by taking the new graphics upgrades down a few notches. They overhauled the graphics without any cause, reason, or patchnotes because Goon told them to do it as part of the campaign against multiboxers, needless to say, it screwed everyone all the way down to the ordinary player because they don't seem to realize that not everyone has state of the art computer tech and top of the line video cards worth hundreds of dollars.

Don't look for that fix, not only are they not going to, CCP does not have permission from the Goonswarms CSM to reverse the sabotage they have implemented with such hellbent dedication. You'll just have to ride it out or upgrade your card.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#30 - 2014-12-22 12:34:04 UTC
Eleven Gage wrote:
They overhauled the graphics without any cause, reason, or patchnotes because Goon told them to do it as part of the campaign against multiboxers


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's some industrial grade tinfoil you got there.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#31 - 2014-12-22 13:11:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
admiral root wrote:
Eleven Gage wrote:
They overhauled the graphics without any cause, reason, or patchnotes because Goon told them to do it as part of the campaign against multiboxers


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's some industrial grade tinfoil you got there.



Well, Iceland does export a lot of Aluminium...

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#32 - 2014-12-22 16:50:06 UTC
I get the impression that op was not around before TiDi... you want to see eve break? remove the TiDi Band-Aid before the cause of the bleeding is fixed. Then you will see eve break.

People used to win fights by having more players then the other side in system before a fight. This would cause such lag that as your opponent jumped in all they saw was a black screen. When they finally loaded, they were in a clone vat. or your commands would not register at all. No it was a nightmare. TiDi at least makes eve playable. They just need to finish Dogma, BIAB and other such upgrades.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Tu Ko
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2014-12-25 03:55:48 UTC
There's two types of fights in EVE the one's you win and those that you get crushed in. There is no game mechanic that will limit actual fleet sizes because the ultimate counter to every strategy is 'more dudes' . You can try all the instancing and throttling you want it'll just be gamed by those that had more dudes anyway. Removing Alliances at this point and time is meaningless we have more communication out of game than in game. Overtop of that is the migration of 'talented people' towards one of the larger groups. Those people are what makes 1000 guys jump into ships and press F1 together and over the years they have gotten better and quicker at getting those fleets to the fight. Blame blue donut all you want the fact of the matter is that the ridiculously large fleet is logical and natural to EVE and it has always been that way.

One suggestion for the sake of adding suggestions is right now the current fleet movement tactic is for everyone to approach one guy (the anchor) and effectively follow him around until he gets popped. If we have the server just take everyone that is 'keeping at range' or 'orbiting' just take the movement of the guy they are following and send that to all the clients viewing and have the client 'make up' where everyone is in the ball and anything being shot at in the ball fudges a little on range so that its basically taking a shot at the 'center' of the mass.

Other suggestion is to have the ability of the client to tell the server "I don't need you to send me this set of data' like don't send me broadcast of certain types (I know that you can filter them out but the packet was still sent to your client before it was filtered from your screen) or yank me out of corp/alliance chat, only keep track of certain types of ships and just don't send me anything about other ships unless I leave the current fleet.

TIDI is still a good answer to black screens of death that we had before.
Sugar Smacks
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2015-02-03 03:21:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Sugar Smacks
I will never join a Null sec corp for this one reason.

Not going to join a fight that takes hours, that isn't really interesting, that is extended, so the whole galaxy can participate.

Tidi is much more damning then the op mentioned. This extends every fight out to a period that any large power block can extend its forces out and control the galaxy.
So by "lagging" us you are actually feeding the large power blocks..
A perception than can be attributed to other Dev choices as well such as CSM.

You think that people should be excited by this prospect? Trust me they are, then they experience it.
Then they never want to go back.

By the way the other mechanic of making real time meaning something is utterly thrown away with tidi.
Tidi if examined only feeds the major power blocks.

But then again thats why so many want it right?

Stop listening to the players they care about themselves first and the game whenever.
Tidi is many years old now, its time to see if we can at least make it less.
Anthar Thebess
#35 - 2015-02-03 14:51:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Leave blob, try to creating something smaller.
Problem solved.
TIDI is mostly because of the blob fights.

This is because you need bigger blob to kill other blob.
Without of ## ships on grid you cannot brake remote tank of ## logistic ships.

Bring more and you win, unless your FC is dumb or you lack skills to put proper isthar or tengu numbers - then you need just more ...
Just to summarize today eve.
Swanky nutjob
Holding Inc.
#36 - 2015-02-11 06:16:44 UTC
Critical mass to break reps is basic math. But yes, the problem actually liesbin the current ship meta and balance problems which have not been addressed in many months. CCP have had 3 chances now to fix Ishtar's but have not done so. This is dumb.
Lugia3
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#37 - 2015-03-05 04:44:15 UTC
Bet you a Confessor that OP has never experienced "Soul Crushing Lag".

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#38 - 2015-03-05 13:54:09 UTC
Lugia3 wrote:
Bet you a Confessor that OP has never experienced "Soul Crushing Lag".


Of course not - he's an expert. P

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#39 - 2015-03-26 16:25:50 UTC
Clearly you never dealt with what happened before tidi. Which was: Defender packs system, attacker blackscreens upon entering and dies before their computer even recognizes that they have jumped in system.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#40 - 2015-03-26 19:01:57 UTC
As this thread was necroed anyway. The dogma rewtire presintation at fan fest showed alot fo the issues they were having. The current ETA for both Dogma and BIAB rewrites is possibly later this summer. Baring some crazy mishap. With testing coming soon. So we may see TIDI be a thing of the past.

One of the more interesting factoids, is that BIAB causes your ship to load the next system 2x faster then currently. or was it 4.. i remember 2x.. hmm.. anyway that is a HUGE improvment

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

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