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UI Modernization preview - Feedback and issues

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Author
Wadiest Yong
Porcus Volans
#361 - 2014-11-21 09:32:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Wadiest Yong
Icons: a bit over-simplified, and could use a dash of color here and there unless you really like 50 shades of grey in the UI.
Pro: some are more intuitive than the old versions.
Con: grey is grey and very unlike the EvE universe, not even sci-fi like in appearance. Some are not intuitive (fleet, corp, market, to name a few). But then icons are not easy to design, and some will be better than others.

Aura: someone has poor taste... Aura is and should remain iconic yes, but this icon isn't. I can imagine the accompanying soundscape, banging pots and pans instead of that wonderful, detached voice (wonderful voice actress btw). What's next ? Stick figures walking in the CQ, lol ? Talking about overdoing, this would be a prime example. And don't you dare to touch our beloved Empress ! Amarr Victor etc. On a more serious note, Aura really is the first contact of a new player. She should remain how she is currently and keep her old icon, which is at least scifi in appearance, in my opinion. (If it were my choice, I would use her as inspiration to design all other icons, not the other way around).

So for the icons: okay if you add a splash of color and respect Aura in her scifi splendor instead of turning her into a mashed, impersonal Robocop thingy. As someone else wrote, ur scaring the fresh meat away.

The UI itself. I am puzzled...

- You have swapped the old (current) options in the ESC>General Settings tab with a number of presets. There were presets in the old version as well - and probably even more than in the new list? -, via the check box "easy theme selection", or the pull down menus, which basically do the same thing and even have fancy names).
- The old options are far more flexible than what is on offer now. They came with a total of three different sliders. This resulted in users being able to tweak the readability of their UI for just about any color setting on their screens (different models, different properties, different response to contrast, brightness, hue etc). With what you suggest now there are only a few of these presets that pass a readability test. I'm afraid this "new and modernized" version is actually worse than it was before and far less flexible. It's simplified, yes, but a lot worse than before.
- The Black preset is half okay-ish but not of the same quality as the old one, so is one of the blues. Readability is poorer than before. Colors on the windows also distract, while their backgrounds clash with the colors in space.
- Every window looks foggy because of the unwieldy window backgrounds, visibility in space with low opacity is worse than before.
- Moreover, windows with buttons like the probe scanner window have another issue, the light background inside the buttons totally nukes the contrast and makes the colors in the button icons fade. In the selected items window there is not enough brightness on the buttons that can be activated. Plus they have this annoying mouseover background illumination which again make the icon itself less readable (white on light grey) e.g. in the Black preset.
- The buttons in the selected item window are not sufficiently scalable (to counteract reduced visibility and overall contrast)
- Why the difference in brightness between the (active) buttons in the Selected Items window and any other text on any window ? Or is that, again, an effect from the backgrounds ?

So, for the new UI: no. I'd say keep the OLD UI window/background/header/subheader options, because 1) it is actually a lot more flexible than the suggestion, 2) already does (almost ?) all of the modernized version , 3) has superior readability, 4) had presets built in too. I might say that the only thing you would need to do is to make a short devblog/video about the use of the old General Settings options for the windows and save a lot of players from having issues with the "modernized" version. Or you could consider making an extra tab in the ESC window for just these options and modernize it with a responsive example.

Btw, I'm impressed with the new shader.

De gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum, but there are limits to everything.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#362 - 2014-11-21 10:54:36 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/fspB02b.png

This.

I don't like my UI white on white with not even a shade below the white anywhere.

I don't like my UI have white smears on the white colored font on the buttons.

Everything i am able to accept is those black buttons with gray font, without smears, only gray backgroud somewhere (not too bright, just the level i can see clearly what is there). I like it, because it is somehow (I don't know how) readable, I heard it is called contrast , but probably someone made it up in his head.

You will hear those complains a lot of times here and there, until you change it to readable state, no matter how bright nebula or sun can become. I know you can change the transparency, but no, it doesn' have to go to this, who on earth needs that? Blind people, so they can feel less impaired with those settings? I am partially blind, but i want to see.


People are difficult!

I wasn't complaining about the brightness of the Threa star but the missing "darkness" of the channels, overview and Neocom bar we have on TQ.

In my case I did turn post-processing of to get rid of that blurr. I need to see what is "behind" my windows, so I can turn my camera in the right direction.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#363 - 2014-11-21 12:36:13 UTC
Wadiest Yong wrote:

The UI itself. I am puzzled...

- You have swapped the old (current) options in the ESC>General Settings tab with a number of presets. There were presets in the old version as well - and probably even more than in the new list? -, via the check box "easy theme selection", or the pull down menus, which basically do the same thing and even have fancy names).
- The old options are far more flexible than what is on offer now. They came with a total of three different sliders. This resulted in users being able to tweak the readability of their UI for just about any color setting on their screens (different models, different properties, different response to contrast, brightness, hue etc). With what you suggest now there are only a few of these presets that pass a readability test. I'm afraid this "new and modernized" version is actually worse than it was before and far less flexible. It's simplified, yes, but a lot worse than before.
- The Black preset is half okay-ish but not of the same quality as the old one, so is one of the blues. Readability is poorer than before. Colors on the windows also distract, while their backgrounds clash with the colors in space.
- Every window looks foggy because of the unwieldy window backgrounds, visibility in space with low opacity is worse than before.
- Moreover, windows with buttons like the probe scanner window have another issue, the light background inside the buttons totally nukes the contrast and makes the colors in the button icons fade. In the selected items window there is not enough brightness on the buttons that can be activated. Plus they have this annoying mouseover background illumination which again make the icon itself less readable (white on light grey) e.g. in the Black preset.
- The buttons in the selected item window are not sufficiently scalable (to counteract reduced visibility and overall contrast)
- Why the difference in brightness between the (active) buttons in the Selected Items window and any other text on any window ? Or is that, again, an effect from the backgrounds ?


Pretty much this.

UX and UI design need to be done at the same time, what we have now is a mess caused by "What we want the useer to experience" at the cost of "How usable the interface is". UX itself is a horrible concept which should be done at game design level instead of at the UI level; UX has always been the main choice of words to those who provide UI as content opposed to the game as content. In applications where you cannot use the underlying technology as the content, you need to pay attention to the UX. For e.g. military software, the UI is functional and UX is neutral due to the content being the only information which needs to be made available. There is no need for flashy colours or convoluted animations because those can distract your eye from an incoming threat.

Sadly, a major part of UX for game designers is dictating how everything works without any possibility of customization because this is the only way to actually measure the parameters listed in the standard (yes, UX has an ISO standard, ISO 9241-210). Allowing people to make adjustments to the UI causes the data to be too splintered or even corrupt to a point where the effects of the UI on the UX cannot be measured and only avenue of feedback is the 1% of population which posts angrily on the forums. Whatever is currently on the test server is 95% of what we are going to receive, including:

- The blur which limits all visibility behind windows
- Lack of RGB controls
- Poor readability on most choices because no testing has been done with people who are not color blind or have less than perfect eye sight (corrected or uncorrected)
- The opacity change on windows when you mouse over, activate, mouse off or deactivate so that we will have effectively blinking windows when we swap between focus rapidly
- The icons are final and will not receive any dolour distinction in the forum of a faint background or a slight hue separating themselves, only minor changes are going to be made to how the look (journal now has a pen isntead of just being a box with lines in it)
- HiDPI support will not be implemented for anything else than the new vectorized icons

I'll revisit this post once the UI gets pushed to live to check off things which actually got changed, but I'm fairly sure I'm not going to have to change any of these.
Nolan Kotulan
Nova Tabula Rasa
#364 - 2014-11-21 12:47:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Nolan Kotulan
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Wadiest Yong wrote:

...
...


Very interesting post, except the conclusion, sadly.

Things (icons, corner brackets, ...) have already been changed since the first "release" on Singularity, so...

Sadly, they didn't remove the corner brackets...
They only made them thinner, which is better but still useless, distracting and aesthetically disgusting...

Per aspera ad astra

Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#365 - 2014-11-21 14:33:33 UTC
Nolan Kotulan wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Wadiest Yong wrote:

...
...


Very interesting post, except the conclusion, sadly.

Things (icons, corner brackets, ...) have already been changed since the first "release" on Singularity, so...

Sadly, they didn't remove the corner brackets...
They only made them thinner, which is better but still useless, distracting and aesthetically disgusting...


I did mention the changes on icons, but they will not be made more readable than what they are now is the point I made.
Talsha Talamar
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Nebula Rasa
#366 - 2014-11-21 14:43:07 UTC
The new ui has a nice look,
but its usability needs improvement.
Just the three points that I noticed right away:

Icons:
Even with the old UI it was hard to quickly differentiate the large number of icons.
This became very evident to me after returning from a rather long break.
The new mono-colour icons are extremely hard to differentiate.

Transparency:
There needs to be an option to set Transparency to 0.
As it is now the GUI is more or less unusable against some backgrounds and in some situations.
I can see no good reason why transparency should be forced on us.
It is the nebula & module icon situation ^2

Colour-Schemes:
Please let us customize our own colour schemes.
We all have preferences that are not only of aesthetic but also of practical nature.
Personally I am used to simple black white and high contrast UIs.
Any deviation from that scheme reduces usability for me.
Again I can see no practical reason to be forced to stick to preconfigured colour-schemes.

In IT usability >>> style imho.

Cheers

Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#367 - 2014-11-22 16:43:41 UTC
I really like the majority of what you've done with the new iconography. I often hit the wrong button because the current icons do not resonate, and I've been playing for 5 years! Two pieces of feedback:

1) Please make distinctive sidebar icons for D scan and probe windows.
2) Aura sidebar icon is fine but leave her old appearance in the pop-ups. Icon Aura is in the uncanny valley.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#368 - 2014-11-22 17:38:45 UTC
Some of the icons are really good - and kinda universally recognised anyway - mail, chat, search, help&support, constellation map

I know you've done your homework and icons without colour are more recogniseable - however, how does that compare to being able to mouse-over icons, and also just downright knowing where they are? - I feel this would be a lot more useful on module icons.....

I HATE the new aura icon - it just doesn't look like her, maybe take out the pair of vertical lines?
what's the book - oh journal.....

'nother thought - what size of icons was used in the research, and were they all clustered together?

in fact - lots of questions about the research - please link it?

also - I challenge you to recognise flags without colour - give it the week, and get back to me

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#369 - 2014-11-23 02:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
So it seems from the lack of dev feedback, those with less than perfect vision are not being considered in these changes?

Single color icons, that were described by my neighbours 11 year old daughter with, "you'd get failed if you handed those in for computer studies at school".

Little hint, with my less than perfect vision, color is often the easiest way to identify commonly used icons. Shapes when all the same color just becomes a blurr.
We've slowed down capital movement, now were slowing down icon selection.

A slider to modify transparency, an option to add color to icons. Then you may have something that is usable by the majority.


NB; The new "Personal Assets" icon, looks like a 1980's webcam and reusing the old Assets icon for Inventory, with color removed, is just pure laziness and uninteresting.

UI updates and improvements should be "visual improvements"; not result in something that looks like it was drawn by a 6 year old with just 1 pencil and no imagination.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#370 - 2014-11-23 02:42:06 UTC
The UI is what we are interacting with when we are wired into our ships.

But consider the following drift from "The Matrix" movie,
as capuleers we are "swimming" in some kind of fluid and have "interconnect" points all over our brain and our spine. So at the point we undock a ship, any ship, we are "connected" to the matrix.

We may or may not have cybernetic implants that enhance our mental capabilites with computer assisted thinking.

However, we are at no point "aware" of the fluid we are currently in and "the matrix" is a computer assisted projection into our minds.
Based on the platform our client runs on, our inputs are limited to a keyboard and a pointing device.

So far the current UI on TQ has done a great job so far at assisting us at "commanding" our ships, improvements that do not stray too far are most welcome and the hints that point to us that we forgot to grab the Damsel (again.. Sad) are a good thing.

Over the years the computing power has increased drastically to a point where we have larger screens and even more ones and zeros to compute at any given time.

In case of more = better, large 16:9 and 16:10 screen are not so rare anymore and you need to consider that the ways of our pointing devices have become further and further.
In stressful situations you are required to interact with your modules, sometimes twice your amount of modules, read the overview tabs, lock things, make plans on attacking or leaving with no time to waste.

The keyboard shortcuts help in that department, not me, but so far the folks I have talked to are pleased with them and since they are optional, everything is fine.

Anyway, don't take too much away of what we have. Being able to read what is going on in chat channels and the overview at the same time without having to "make them active" first, will go a long way.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#371 - 2014-11-23 12:21:21 UTC
Its pretty disapointing that despite receiving 20 pages of feedback,in this thread and 26 pages in the annoucment thread, CCP have yet to make any significant changes to the customization ability of the UI. (Aside from a transparency slider that omits key areas like tabs from the slider's effect)

EvE players are not one size fits all !

When the forums explode with rage when you release ur non customizable 'simple theme selection' ui onto tranquility, you cant say you were not warned.

This really strikes me as one or two senior ui design people in CCP refusing to admit their vision is not "perfect"

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

Err0r404
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#372 - 2014-11-23 17:10:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Err0r404
No matter how hard I try I can't get used to flat and monochrome icons... really.

I agree with those who compared it to iOS7, it feels incredibly unnecessary, is a step backwards, because everybody is doing it doesn't mean it's that good, etc.

I was used to recognize icons by their colors, it actually took me years to realize the fitting icon was a bantam... and while I do agree it may not be the best ship to represent EvE, I definitely don't like the rifter icon thingy either.

I'll join those who are asking either for colors back or some kind of advanced UI customization which would include individual settings for each icon... or why the heck not even full access to icon files, because you can't make everyone happy with a single set of icons anyway.
Rhea Rankin Nolen
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#373 - 2014-11-23 21:01:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhea Rankin Nolen
I'm sorry but the new monochrome icons are just terribad.

Yes, some of the icons we have now kinda look alike, but at least they don't look like something I'd put on a tomb stone!

IMO the right way is to just change those 2-3 existing icons that look samey, with more distinct ones, while keeping the current theme.

Icons we have now looks sci-fi-ish, colorful and most importantly lifelike. So please please, rethink those new dead monochromate ones!

And don't get me started on Aura.. Roll
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
#374 - 2014-11-24 01:08:58 UTC
Pinned and Transparent need to be two different things - period.
Nekronautt
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#375 - 2014-11-24 01:28:37 UTC
Is this new UI final? The lack of colours for neocom buttons horrible. Why make things worse than they are? Colours + shapes = faster association with something than just colours and a buncha stupid shapes. It seriously looks like a 1980s apple computer. Please, for just once let us keep the originals for something.

You do this massive UI overhaul, but dont let us shrink that useless area above station services with the undock button?
Nekronautt
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#376 - 2014-11-24 01:29:53 UTC
helana Tsero wrote:
Its pretty disapointing that despite receiving 20 pages of feedback,in this thread and 26 pages in the annoucment thread, CCP have yet to make any significant changes to the customization ability of the UI. (Aside from a transparency slider that omits key areas like tabs from the slider's effect)

EvE players are not one size fits all !

When the forums explode with rage when you release ur non customizable 'simple theme selection' ui onto tranquility, you cant say you were not warned.

This really strikes me as one or two senior ui design people in CCP refusing to admit their vision is not "perfect"

I absolutely hate this. In a game where most of what you do consists of navigating menus, they really need to put more thought into this.
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#377 - 2014-11-24 08:49:23 UTC
I have found the new UI a little quicker to hunt things down, but as has been mentioned many other times in this thread, the colour choices for the UI are terrible. The existing UI is a lot nicer to look at than the blocky stylings that the new UI is going for, which is currently "in vogue" because of people using touch interfaces.

The Sensible Way to go would be to give us two options: Classic UI (the one we are using) and Modern UI (the one you are developing). Give it a few months and check the data. Then you can see how much the uptake is before actually rolling it out. To give the Modern UI a chance, make it the default, but add in a check box so that we can go back to the Classic UI if we like.


For the love of God don't pull a Microsoft.

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#378 - 2014-11-24 11:40:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Xindi Kraid
Overall I am liking the design. Regarding icons though: being monochromatic may speed up recognition, but they they all have the be the same color? Wouldn't it be benefit if all icons were a single color but multiple colors were used (for instance maybe market and wallet are green while social stuff is yellow)

More importantly, though, the sublists in the neocom master list (social, business, etc) need their own icons rather than just the stack icon you get now so you can tell them apart without having to read the label.

Also, I don't think the icon for fitting is very recognizable. I would have gone with a highslot icon since that's a well known indicator.
marVLs
#379 - 2014-11-24 18:16:02 UTC
If You think old icons are better use new ones more than single log in ffs... give them few hours and then go back to old ones, You will see why new ones are better
Nolan Kotulan
Nova Tabula Rasa
#380 - 2014-11-24 19:05:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Nolan Kotulan
Rhea Rankin Nolen wrote:
Icons we have now looks sci-fi-ish, colorful and most importantly lifelike. So please please, rethink those new dead monochromate ones!
Old icons don't look sci-fi-ish at all. They looks like 90's ones.
Look at any sci-fi-ish user interface you want, in movies, games, wherever you want; this is always flat design.

Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Pinned and Transparent need to be two different things - period.
I can't agree.
That's already the case with the new UI, and we precisely need the opposite:
  • Pinned = Transparent
  • Unpinned = Opaque (or at least a lot less transparent)

Simplicity, always!

Per aspera ad astra