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Dev Blog - A new look for EVE’s UI – feedback needed!

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Leorajev Aubaris
Blue Goat Ltd.
#661 - 2014-12-14 21:51:45 UTC
There are now about 2000 posts combined in 4 threads regarding the changes introduced with Rhea.
And at least in 3 of them (I did not read the 4th) with combined more than 1500 posts:

NOT A SINGLE REPLY FROM THE DEVS!

That is more than annoying.
Why ask for feedback (see the topic of this forum thread) when not replying to that feedback?

There are real issues reported, that are not "tears" as some of the posters like to claim.

So I would expect a Dev replying and addressing the reported issues.
  • If they are acknowledged as issues.
  • How is the schedule to address these issues.

    • Information is motivation.
    This I learned during my professional life leading several teams.
    People will accept situations that are not optimal when they know that this a temporary state and it will be fixed.

    CCP: inform us!
    Shut up
    Uranium Moon
    #662 - 2014-12-14 23:03:00 UTC
    I stopped playing EVE after 15 minutes of trying to see with this new color scheme. I tried every color there is and I just cannot see clearly to play. Please give me back my light color options so that I can see clearly again without straining my eyes.
    Gully Alex Foyle
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #663 - 2014-12-15 13:07:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Gully Alex Foyle
    Your players' dreams wrote:
    Patch Notes For Rhea
    2014-12-16 11:25
    Patch notes for Rhea 1.3
    Release on Tuesday, December 16, 2014

    FEATURES & CHANGES

    User Interface:

    . Added the option to turn off the dynamic brightness effect of all the darn windows
    . UI colors are now customizable, so everybody can be be happy


    Come on, CCP, it's that easy! Do it tomorrow!

    Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
    ergherhdfgh
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #664 - 2014-12-15 15:51:56 UTC
    I don't like the new UI the old one was much better. The only plus about the new one is that it does seem to be more functional as a see-through window but I don't see much use for that.

    All the icons on the left side of my screen that I use to interact with everything are now all the same color and very difficult to tell apart. I used to be able to click on the icon that I wanted to open the UI to but now I have to hover over several icons in the area of where I know my market UI should be and wait for the hover over pop up to show me if it is the market UI or ship fitting UI or industry UI or what ever and if I get it wrong hover over the next one until the pop up window shows.

    I don't like it this is a step backwards on forwards please change it back.

    Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
    Aiyshimin
    Shiva Furnace
    #665 - 2014-12-15 15:57:09 UTC
    ergherhdfgh wrote:
    I don't like the new UI the old one was much better. The only plus about the new one is that it does seem to be more functional as a see-through window but I don't see much use for that.

    All the icons on the left side of my screen that I use to interact with everything are now all the same color and very difficult to tell apart. I used to be able to click on the icon that I wanted to open the UI to but now I have to hover over several icons in the area of where I know my market UI should be and wait for the hover over pop up to show me if it is the market UI or ship fitting UI or industry UI or what ever and if I get it wrong hover over the next one until the pop up window shows.

    I don't like it this is a step backwards on forwards please change it back.


    That's only because you had memorized the old, horribly unclear and ugly icons, not because they were good. The new ones actually have a logical connection between their appearance and the function they represent.

    Note that ideally you'd use the keyboard shortcuts to open the most used functions, like fitting and market instead of clicking icons.
    Mara Kell
    Herrscher der Zeit
    Pandemic Horde
    #666 - 2014-12-15 18:05:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Kell
    Aiyshimin wrote:


    That's only because you had memorized the old, horribly unclear and ugly icons, not because they were good. The new ones actually have a logical connection between their appearance and the function they represent.



    Is that so? Lets have a look.

    -There is a stock exchange chart as symbol for a market place where you buy goods.

    -A medieval looking scroll as a symbol for contracts

    -A spaceship in a crosshair for fitting.

    -A journal in that you cannot write at all is symbolized by a jounal with a pen? Oo

    -The symbol for assets looks like a gear wheel in a microwave oven.

    -Fleet menu is symbolized with a rank insignia.

    If you can explain my why those symbols have an intuitive and REALLY logical connection to their respective menu content i would be very surprised.
    Gully Alex Foyle
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #667 - 2014-12-15 18:47:59 UTC
    Mara Kell wrote:
    Aiyshimin wrote:


    That's only because you had memorized the old, horribly unclear and ugly icons, not because they were good. The new ones actually have a logical connection between their appearance and the function they represent.



    Is that so? Lets have a look.

    -There is a stock exchange chart as symbol for a market place where you buy goods.

    -A medieval looking scroll as a symbol for contracts

    -A spaceship in a crosshair for fitting.

    -A journal in that you cannot write at all is symbolized by a jounal with a pen? Oo

    -The symbol for assets looks like a gear wheel in a microwave oven.

    -Fleet menu is symbolized with a rank insignia.

    If you can explain my why those symbols have an intuitive and REALLY logical connection to their respective menu content i would be very surprised.
    See how intuitive they are? You learned them all, already!

    Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
    Nolan Kotulan
    Nova Tabula Rasa
    #668 - 2014-12-15 19:55:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Nolan Kotulan
    Mara Kell wrote:
    Aiyshimin wrote:


    That's only because you had memorized the old, horribly unclear and ugly icons, not because they were good. The new ones actually have a logical connection between their appearance and the function they represent.



    Is that so? Lets have a look.

    -There is a stock exchange chart as symbol for a market place where you buy goods. (1)

    -A medieval looking scroll as a symbol for contracts. (2)

    -A spaceship in a crosshair for fitting. (3)

    -A journal in that you cannot write at all is symbolized by a jounal with a pen? Oo (4)

    -The symbol for assets looks like a gear wheel in a microwave oven. (5)

    -Fleet menu is symbolized with a rank insignia. (6)

    If you can explain my why those symbols have an intuitive and REALLY logical connection to their respective menu content i would be very surprised.


    1.
    Price history, price fluctuations, as simple as that. Can't do better!
    If it doesn't look like a "market thing" to you, I think we can't help you anymore...

    2.
    We often use references to old objects as pictograms in real modern life, because they still are strong historical universal known objects and so, efficient references.
    Typography, pictography, writing, all of this is almost always based on history.
    Search = magnifying glass. Call button on phones = old phone. Etc. Do you have a better idea for contracts?

    3.
    A crosshair, really? Where is the cross? OK for the ship, the Rifter is not a good choice.

    4.
    You can't write in it, but this is where you get your missions infos (and a lot of other infos related to time (i.e.: things to do, accomplished things)), so you can suppose your character take notes in it. Without the pen it would be a book.

    5.
    Really? Are you serious? Can't you see the strongbox? Let me ask again, are you serious?

    6.
    And what is a fleet? Isn't it a group of people hierarchically organised?
    ___

    Seriously, there a real legitimate complaints out there, but this kind of "easy unconstructive criticism" (to stay polite) is nothing else than bad faith and whims!

    There are indeed a few icons that are actually not that good (wallet, people and places, agent finder, ...) but you talked about none of them and you aren't giving any better idea about the ones you criticize, probably because you don't have any...

    So, you are just crying...

    Per aspera ad astra
    Mara Kell
    Herrscher der Zeit
    Pandemic Horde
    #669 - 2014-12-15 21:09:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Kell
    Nolan Kotulan wrote:
    Mara Kell wrote:
    Aiyshimin wrote:


    That's only because you had memorized the old, horribly unclear and ugly icons, not because they were good. The new ones actually have a logical connection between their appearance and the function they represent.



    Is that so? Lets have a look.

    -There is a stock exchange chart as symbol for a market place where you buy goods. (1)

    -A medieval looking scroll as a symbol for contracts. (2)

    -A spaceship in a crosshair for fitting. (3)

    -A journal in that you cannot write at all is symbolized by a jounal with a pen? Oo (4)

    -The symbol for assets looks like a gear wheel in a microwave oven. (5)

    -Fleet menu is symbolized with a rank insignia. (6)

    If you can explain my why those symbols have an intuitive and REALLY logical connection to their respective menu content i would be very surprised.


    1.
    Price history, price fluctuations, as simple as that. Can't do better!
    If it doesn't look like a "market thing" to you, I think we can't help you anymore...

    2.
    We often use references to old objects as pictograms in real modern life, because they still are strong historical universal known objects and so, efficient references.
    Typography, pictography, writing, all of this is almost always based on history.
    Search = magnifying glass. Call button on phones = old phone. Etc. Do you have a better idea for contracts?

    3.
    A crosshair, really? Where is the cross? OK for the ship, the Rifter is not a good choice.

    4.
    You can't write in it, but this is where you get your missions infos (and a lot of other infos related to time (i.e.: things to do, accomplished things)), so you can suppose your character take notes in it. Without the pen it would be a book.

    5.
    Really? Are you serious? Can't you see the strongbox? Let me ask again, are you serious?

    6.
    And what is a fleet? Isn't it a group of people hierarchically organised?
    ___

    Seriously, there a real legitimate complaints out there, but this kind of "easy unconstructive criticism" (to stay polite) is nothing else than bad faith and whims!

    There are indeed a few icons that are actually not that good (wallet, people and places, agent finder, ...) but you talked about none of them and you aren't giving any better idea about the ones you criticize, probably because you don't have any...

    So, you are just crying...


    Im neither kidding nor crying. Im only asking for, that when you replace all icons in a game with new ones they have to be pretty darn good. Especially if you use simplified monochrome icons instead of small pictures.

    1. What your saying kind of conforms the problem with this icon, it represents only a certain function within the market but does not represent a marketplace in general.

    2. I see your argument, but when you see a scroll, whats the first thing you think of, a contract? Well i would think of a constitution or some historical declaration.

    3. When i see this ship in a circle i think of something like targeting, maybe bounty office or so.

    4. I understand your point, for me its just counterintuitive somehow, i mix it up with notices all the time so far

    5. Well now that you mention it, still looks totally strange for me this icon. And the last strongbox i have seen doesnt look like that either

    6. you have a point but when you see a rank insignia what do you think of? I think of a ladder, or merrits or sth like that. Why didnt they just use like 3 small ships in a formation or something like that?

    The funny thing is, the ones you are mentioning are totally fine for me, which basicly supports my pov that the new icons are bad, when different people have totally different ideas when they see them.
    McChicken Combo HalfMayo
    The Happy Meal
    #670 - 2014-12-15 21:37:11 UTC
    When the new icons arrived I made it a point to try and guess which ones were which before checking. I got all but 1 or 2 right. I like them.

    There are all our dominion

    Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
    Sgt Ocker
    What Corp is it
    #671 - 2014-12-16 01:53:31 UTC
    Mara Kell wrote:
    Nolan Kotulan wrote:
    Mara Kell wrote:
    Aiyshimin wrote:


    That's only because you had memorized the old, horribly unclear and ugly icons, not because they were good. The new ones actually have a logical connection between their appearance and the function they represent.



    Is that so? Lets have a look.

    -There is a stock exchange chart as symbol for a market place where you buy goods. (1)

    -A medieval looking scroll as a symbol for contracts. (2)

    -A spaceship in a crosshair for fitting. (3)

    -A journal in that you cannot write at all is symbolized by a jounal with a pen? Oo (4)

    -The symbol for assets looks like a gear wheel in a microwave oven. (5)

    -Fleet menu is symbolized with a rank insignia. (6)

    If you can explain my why those symbols have an intuitive and REALLY logical connection to their respective menu content i would be very surprised.


    1.
    Price history, price fluctuations, as simple as that. Can't do better!
    If it doesn't look like a "market thing" to you, I think we can't help you anymore...

    2.
    We often use references to old objects as pictograms in real modern life, because they still are strong historical universal known objects and so, efficient references.
    Typography, pictography, writing, all of this is almost always based on history.
    Search = magnifying glass. Call button on phones = old phone. Etc. Do you have a better idea for contracts?

    3.
    A crosshair, really? Where is the cross? OK for the ship, the Rifter is not a good choice.

    4.
    You can't write in it, but this is where you get your missions infos (and a lot of other infos related to time (i.e.: things to do, accomplished things)), so you can suppose your character take notes in it. Without the pen it would be a book.

    5.
    Really? Are you serious? Can't you see the strongbox? Let me ask again, are you serious?

    6.
    And what is a fleet? Isn't it a group of people hierarchically organised?
    ___

    Seriously, there a real legitimate complaints out there, but this kind of "easy unconstructive criticism" (to stay polite) is nothing else than bad faith and whims!

    There are indeed a few icons that are actually not that good (wallet, people and places, agent finder, ...) but you talked about none of them and you aren't giving any better idea about the ones you criticize, probably because you don't have any...

    So, you are just crying...


    Im neither kidding nor crying. Im only asking for, that when you replace all icons in a game with new ones they have to be pretty darn good. Especially if you use simplified monochrome icons instead of small pictures.

    1. What your saying kind of conforms the problem with this icon, it represents only a certain function within the market but does not represent a marketplace in general.

    2. I see your argument, but when you see a scroll, whats the first thing you think of, a contract? Well i would think of a constitution or some historical declaration.

    3. When i see this ship in a circle i think of something like targeting, maybe bounty office or so.

    4. I understand your point, for me its just counterintuitive somehow, i mix it up with notices all the time so far

    5. Well now that you mention it, still looks totally strange for me this icon. And the last strongbox i have seen doesnt look like that either

    6. you have a point but when you see a rank insignia what do you think of? I think of a ladder, or merrits or sth like that. Why didnt they just use like 3 small ships in a formation or something like that?

    The funny thing is, the ones you are mentioning are totally fine for me, which basicly supports my pov that the new icons are bad, when different people have totally different ideas when they see them.

    New icons suck but are easy to navigate because you can mouse over to see what they do. Nowhere near ideal but works.

    What i really don't like is the white highlighting behind your active chat window. I like to watch local numbers and if "local" is the active window the lighting makes it difficult to see. White lettering with white highlighting is really bad.

    PS; Market icon should be a "for sale" sign

    My opinions are mine.

      If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

    It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
    skandra Kishunuba
    Have I Got Moos For You
    #672 - 2014-12-16 13:52:10 UTC
    Another day, another mini patch and no official update yet from CCP regarding feedback received.

    This 'stonewalling' attitude by CCP is beginning to border on rudeness.

    How long would it take for one of the staff to post a quick update stating "After reviewing feedback we see no real issues and the new UI will remain 'as is' ", "We are still reviewing feedback and will update on our intentions once we have finished reviewing feedback" or more preferably, "After reviewing feedback, we have decided to make some revisions to the new UI and we are examining ways to implement them"?

    Any response would take just a few minutes and would no doubt be welcomed by many of the people expressing concerns.

    Could we please have a quick update on CCP's plans?
    Gully Alex Foyle
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #673 - 2014-12-16 14:19:15 UTC
    skandra Kishunuba wrote:
    Another day, another mini patch and no official update yet from CCP regarding feedback received.

    This 'stonewalling' attitude by CCP is beginning to border on rudeness.

    How long would it take for one of the staff to post a quick update stating "After reviewing feedback we see no real issues and the new UI will remain 'as is' ", "We are still reviewing feedback and will update on our intentions once we have finished reviewing feedback" or more preferably, "After reviewing feedback, we have decided to make some revisions to the new UI and we are examining ways to implement them"?

    Any response would take just a few minutes and would no doubt be welcomed by many of the people expressing concerns.

    Could we please have a quick update on CCP's plans?

    +1

    Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
    Tonto Auri
    Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
    #674 - 2014-12-16 19:02:19 UTC
    CCP Optimal wrote:
    Strata Maslav wrote:
    Focusing on the Neocom I feel like that each icon needs unique colouration. I like the aesthetic but each icon having it own unique colour scheme would allow users to locate desired icons faster.

    This was exactly my first reaction when this was suggested, but it turns out that once you have clear cut shapes, you don't really need color to tell them apart. Like I said in the blog, it's a "try it to believe it" kind of thing!

    Just a hint: I'm not color-blind. Quite opposite, I'm very sensitive to color tones. When I see a monochrome UI, my first impression is that all buttons are disabled and not interactable. Second impression is that something is wrong with monitor colors.

    Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
    Nolan Kotulan
    Nova Tabula Rasa
    #675 - 2014-12-16 21:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Nolan Kotulan
    Mara Kell wrote:

    [...]

    1. What your saying kind of conforms the problem with this icon, it represents only a certain function within the market but does not represent a marketplace in general.

    [...]

    So, what is your suggestion, concretely?
    All that matters with icons is, what do they make you think about first?
    If that is market, then the icon is good!
    This isn't absolutly necessary (and there is no way I can think of) to make it "represent a Marketplace in general"...

    Sgt Ocker wrote:

    [...]

    PS: Market icon should be a "for sale" sign

    What is a "for sale" sign? (edit: by sign I understood symbol / pictogram as english isn't my native language)
    Never seen that...

    Per aspera ad astra
    Tonto Auri
    Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
    #676 - 2014-12-16 21:35:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tonto Auri
    Nolan Kotulan wrote:
    All that matters with icons is, what do they make you think about first?
    If that is market, then the icon is good!
    This isn't absolutly necessary (and there is no way I can think of) to make it "represent a Marketplace in general"...

    "Marketplace in general" as in "shopping". A shopping cart is a very common representation. Though doesn't fit the bills of EVE UI. The old icon of stuff pouring from delivery crate was quite fitting.

    Quote:
    What is a "for sale" sign?
    Never seen that...

    This one f.e.

    Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
    Nolan Kotulan
    Nova Tabula Rasa
    #677 - 2014-12-16 21:42:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Nolan Kotulan
    Tonto Auri wrote:
    Nolan Kotulan wrote:
    All that matters with icons is, what do they make you think about first?
    If that is market, then the icon is good!
    This isn't absolutly necessary (and there is no way I can think of) to make it "represent a Marketplace in general"...

    "Marketplace in general" as in "shopping". A shopping cart is a very common representation. Though doesn't fit the bills of EVE UI. The old icon of stuff pouring from delivery crate was quite fitting.

    Quote:
    What is a "for sale" sign?
    Never seen that...

    This one f.e.


    Nah, the shopping cart don't fit at all.
    The market isn't a "simple" store or an online store.
    This is a market with speculation, buy orders, sell orders, etc.
    This is what you don't understand, you and some others...

    About the "for sale" sign, this is what I thougt: this isn't a symbol at all...
    The point about an icon is to be a "talking by itself picture", what we call in fact a pictogram.
    There shouldn't be anything written in it...

    And do you seriously thing this kind of thing (a "for sale" sign, really???) would fit well for EVE's "Marketplace in general" representation?

    I don't want to be rude guys, but... I don't know... think about your suggestions a bit more longer than 2 sec please...

    Per aspera ad astra
    McChicken Combo HalfMayo
    The Happy Meal
    #678 - 2014-12-16 21:57:29 UTC
    CCP Darwin wrote:
    Malou Hashur wrote:
    You all realise that there is absolutely no point in posting anything further in this thread ?

    It’s 11 days since the last post by a Dev, they stopped looking at this thread a while back. This will be shipped as they want it, NOT as we want it. No change there.


    Reset your counter to 0.

    It's now at 27 Blink

    There are all our dominion

    Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
    Dersen Lowery
    The Scope
    #679 - 2014-12-16 22:18:41 UTC
    Tonto Auri wrote:
    Nolan Kotulan wrote:
    All that matters with icons is, what do they make you think about first?
    If that is market, then the icon is good!
    This isn't absolutly necessary (and there is no way I can think of) to make it "represent a Marketplace in general"...

    "Marketplace in general" as in "shopping". A shopping cart is a very common representation. Though doesn't fit the bills of EVE UI. The old icon of stuff pouring from delivery crate was quite fitting.


    Except that, like most of the old images, it wasn't iconic. EVE has superb icons for the four major empires, to name just a few. And though they do come with colors, they're instantly recognizable and distinguishable one from the other without.

    The old icons were so busy that, on my relatively small NEOCOM, they looked like colored blobs. I finally just memorized their positions and accepted that I was going to open the market instead of the fitting window every so often.

    The new interface could use some additional refinement. I'd say that it brings us into the present rather than taking us into the future. The NEOCOM icons are a clear improvement over the old ones. They have clear shapes with no muddiness or clutter, they can be immediately distinguished from each other with only peripheral vision. Since they don't have color, they don't compete with the in-game visuals.

    I wonder if some of the people saying that the new interface looks like something out of the 1990s were using computers in the 1990s? The old, cluttered, pixellated, vaguely skeuomorphic icons look a lot more like Windows 95/Mac OS 8 era work than the new ones do.

    Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

    I voted in CSM X!
    Tonto Auri
    Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
    #680 - 2014-12-17 03:11:21 UTC
    Dersen Lowery wrote:
    I wonder if some of the people saying that the new interface looks like something out of the 1990s were using computers in the 1990s? The old, cluttered, pixellated, vaguely skeuomorphic icons look a lot more like Windows 95/Mac OS 8 era work than the new ones do.

    The blinky and gloomy "holographic" interface is funny, when you read about it in a book.
    But it is ******* abusive to the eyes, when you have to work with it in person.
    I have to close eyes and wait through all the blinking of, i.e. character selection screen, or gate transition phase, else my eyes strain in minutes. I just can't stand the flashing. It is literally painful, not metaphorically.

    Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison