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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Jump Bridge and Fatigue.

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Haywoud Jablomi
Vay Mining Corporation
#1 - 2014-11-06 13:34:51 UTC
Curious if this is how things are intended to work or just a unfortunate side effect.

If I am moving an industrial and I move it via the jump bridge I get one timer for that pilot, and if I bring along a friend to run escort for me while I move, that player gets a completely different timer. So effectively I cant bring a combat ship through the jump bridge to escort my industrial without forcing that pilot to stay behind when I jump again.

Not really looking for any change, just curious if this is what is intended. Basically I have to move my indy ships without an escort, or force them to fly through gates to the next desto, or have multiple pilots to deal with fatigue. Not really sure how any of these situations has anything to do with force projection, which was the target of the current patch.

I dont see a change and I really just risk it when I fly atm, not hauling anything more than I can afford to loose.

And yes I know I can just use a Rorq or somethng and jump right to station. This is more for non jump pilots.

Kind of thinking that JBs should be treated a bit differently considering how much effort they take to keep running, the requirement of sov and other things. Maybe a flat fatigue no matter what ship goes through. Say 60% reduction as compared to the different %'s that apply to ships now. This would only be for JB's and JB's would be limited to non jump drive ships like they are now.

Just a thought. No real concern either way.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? Yes; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP should be completely avoided" "However if you train cloak, you can avoid it all you want." (Modified)
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#2 - 2014-11-06 13:39:31 UTC
Haulers have a 90% reduction on all jump timers to allow the current hauler trips from highsec trade hubs to remain a thing...

It was in the patch notes...
Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#3 - 2014-11-06 13:49:38 UTC
If you want to bring along an escort you are going to have to move at the speed of the escort, rather than the speed of the industrial. This actually isn't actually much different than escorting gate to gate, since big transports move slower than most of the ships that would be escorting them. It's just that when going gate to gate you are fleet warping and moving together. In this case you'll be waiting on the escort instead of the transport, but it's the same concept.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow
Haywoud Jablomi
Vay Mining Corporation
#4 - 2014-11-06 13:52:31 UTC
FireFrenzy wrote:
Haulers have a 90% reduction on all jump timers to allow the current hauler trips from highsec trade hubs to remain a thing...

It was in the patch notes...



Did you read what I posted at all? I am talking about non jump drive ships using jump bridges. Not sure I know any bridges that go from high sec to null.

I understand that they get the 90% reduction.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? Yes; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP should be completely avoided" "However if you train cloak, you can avoid it all you want." (Modified)
Haywoud Jablomi
Vay Mining Corporation
#5 - 2014-11-06 13:56:12 UTC
Niskin wrote:
If you want to bring along an escort you are going to have to move at the speed of the escort, rather than the speed of the industrial. This actually isn't actually much different than escorting gate to gate, since big transports move slower than most of the ships that would be escorting them. It's just that when going gate to gate you are fleet warping and moving together. In this case you'll be waiting on the escort instead of the transport, but it's the same concept.



I understand that. What I am asking is, was that intended or just an unfortant consequence of the patch. If it was just a consequence of the patch having to limit force projection, could their be a solution in addressing JB's specificly considering how they different so much from jump drive equiped ships.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? Yes; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP should be completely avoided" "However if you train cloak, you can avoid it all you want." (Modified)
Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#6 - 2014-11-06 14:07:45 UTC
Haywoud Jablomi wrote:
I understand that. What I am asking is, was that intended or just an unfortant consequence of the patch. If it was just a consequence of the patch having to limit force projection, could their be a solution in addressing JB's specificly considering how they different so much from jump drive equiped ships.


The fact that it affects Jump Bridges is intentional. It's not so much about the jump drives or the jump bridges themselves, but the speed of movement they allow. If you can't jump your carrier across the universe anymore but can still get to a spare cap across the universe just as quickly then nothing has really changed. That was their intent, I would imagine that they feel your situation is an acceptable side-affect of the changes, but I can't say for sure.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#7 - 2014-11-06 15:02:10 UTC
Haywoud Jablomi wrote:

Kind of thinking that JBs should be treated a bit differently considering how much effort they take to keep running, the requirement of sov and other things. Maybe a flat fatigue no matter what ship goes through. Say 60% reduction as compared to the different %'s that apply to ships now. This would only be for JB's and JB's would be limited to non jump drive ships like they are now.

Just a thought. No real concern either way.


And make the entire point of the reduced mobility moot? Good idea. JBs are also not limited to ships without jumpdrive, every ship can use them.

Good that you yourself admit that no one should put more thought into it.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Haywoud Jablomi
Vay Mining Corporation
#8 - 2014-11-06 15:15:56 UTC
Rivr. Try jumping a Rorq through a jump bridge. Tell me if it works for you

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? Yes; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP should be completely avoided" "However if you train cloak, you can avoid it all you want." (Modified)
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#9 - 2014-11-06 16:03:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Haywoud Jablomi wrote:
Rivr. Try jumping a Rorq through a jump bridge. Tell me if it works for you


Admittedly, though it seems to be inconsistent as Blops can use JBs. My point about the mobility, however, stands regardless. Blink

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Haywoud Jablomi
Vay Mining Corporation
#10 - 2014-11-06 16:30:50 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Haywoud Jablomi wrote:
Rivr. Try jumping a Rorq through a jump bridge. Tell me if it works for you


Admittedly, though it seems to be inconsistent as Blops can use JBs. My point about the mobility, however, stands regardless. Blink


Not really. Only sub caps can use JBs with the exception of freighters.

A JB network can move ships quickly and you need the Fatigue but the network cant move ships outside of the sov controlled space. With the approach of the changes to sov, JB networks are going to be greatly effected and probably will start getting much much smaller. So if you are small group with a handful of systems and 1 JB, the jump fatigue seems rather pointless.

My point is that maybe we should look at JBs a bit differently since their overall force projection is limited and you cant move caps via it anyway.

That is however far beyond the scope of what I original was talking about in regards to moving industrials and not being able to bring an escort. Why exactly would you need the 90% jump fatigue reduction on the indys if you cant bring an escort.

I can understand it with capital jump drive equiped ships. You are moving billions. I am talking about an itty V that might need a frig to come with it to move stuff.

I think overall though nothing much can be done about it yet.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? Yes; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP should be completely avoided" "However if you train cloak, you can avoid it all you want." (Modified)
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#11 - 2014-11-06 16:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Haywoud Jablomi wrote:
A JB network can move ships quickly and you need the Fatigue but the network cant move ships outside of the sov controlled space. With the approach of the changes to sov, JB networks are going to be greatly effected and probably will start getting much much smaller. So if you are small group with a handful of systems and 1 JB, the jump fatigue seems rather pointless.

My point is that maybe we should look at JBs a bit differently since their overall force projection is limited and you cant move caps via it anyway.


That is the entire point. You should not be able to move around instantly in your own space. If someone attacks your space, you could move there with JBs very quickly and don't accumulate lots of Fatigue. Whether you can move 100s of capitals or thousands of sub-capitals to an attacked system, the projected force is the same and thus the tools to project it should be treated in the same way.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#12 - 2014-11-06 17:08:22 UTC
Haywoud Jablomi wrote:
That is however far beyond the scope of what I original was talking about in regards to moving industrials and not being able to bring an escort. Why exactly would you need the 90% jump fatigue reduction on the indys if you cant bring an escort.

I can understand it with capital jump drive equiped ships. You are moving billions. I am talking about an itty V that might need a frig to come with it to move stuff.

I think overall though nothing much can be done about it yet.


Since these changes were aimed at localizing things, and there are more changes coming in that regard, it would be best to think of a solution to the problem that embraces that. I'd say you don't really need an escort as much as you need your destination bridge scouted and the gate/route to the bridge after that one also. This isn't unlike the old days where we were always asking people if they could scout something for us as we moved something.

So I would recommend working with your alliance to get people who are already in the area to scout for you. It won't take them long and it will be easier to find people to do so as space becomes more localized. Meaning there will likely be more people in the areas you need to pass through and the distances you need to go will probably get shorter, requiring less help.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow
Apul MadeekAoud
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2014-11-06 19:53:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Apul MadeekAoud
Haulers ◾ 90% reduction in fatigue generation when using jump bridges
Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-11-07 08:01:20 UTC
Remove jump bridges from the game, along with jump freighters. You want to move stuff LY? Do it the hard way or employ a Titan. Nulsec is way too molly-coddled as it is, and you whiners want to make it even easier for you? Carebears don't whine this much.
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-11-07 08:08:13 UTC
Haywoud Jablomi wrote:
Curious if this is how things are intended to work or just a unfortunate side effect.

If I am moving an industrial and I move it via the jump bridge I get one timer for that pilot, and if I bring along a friend to run escort for me while I move, that player gets a completely different timer. So effectively I cant bring a combat ship through the jump bridge to escort my industrial without forcing that pilot to stay behind when I jump again.

Not really looking for any change, just curious if this is what is intended. Basically I have to move my indy ships without an escort, or force them to fly through gates to the next desto, or have multiple pilots to deal with fatigue. Not really sure how any of these situations has anything to do with force projection, which was the target of the current patch.

I dont see a change and I really just risk it when I fly atm, not hauling anything more than I can afford to loose.

And yes I know I can just use a Rorq or somethng and jump right to station. This is more for non jump pilots.

Kind of thinking that JBs should be treated a bit differently considering how much effort they take to keep running, the requirement of sov and other things. Maybe a flat fatigue no matter what ship goes through. Say 60% reduction as compared to the different %'s that apply to ships now. This would only be for JB's and JB's would be limited to non jump drive ships like they are now.

Just a thought. No real concern either way.


First Step: Read the changes.
Second Step: Understand the changes, if there are parts not clear go back ot step 1.

Than start to complaining about.

-1