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Balancing strategic cruisers is easy: set them to tech 1 values
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Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2014-11-11 11:11:40 UTC
Any ship in the game is OP when you bring 500 of the things (ok exaggerated but you get the Idea)

Harpies, Eagles, Navpoc's, Drake's, Caracal's, Munnin's, Ishtars(even more op than T3) are all op in their own way when you have loads of them until you use a counter.

Did you know to counter T3's you can Neut them? (except the HAM legion that's designed to keep going) but heres the kicker. You have to be in Neut range............oh dear that means getting close.....something Nullsecers Don't like doing. So part of the Issue With T3's being so OP in Null is that your not bringing the Counter to T3 fleets.

Of course with all that said T3's need a rebalanced amongst themselves with some HP taken off and the less used subs buffed. This is whats needed to be done. Not an axe to knee. You forget that an entire population in the game relies on theses ships as they were designed for W-space to be used in W-space.

Everyone says T3 skill loss was not an excuse for them to be powerful and I call Bull to that as they are the only ship that does it and as much as you may say it 5 days doesn't matter. to a lower SP character that means a lot, and removing SP loss from T3 will remove the uniqueness of a T3. Remember that 5 day train will have the possibility of being lost again

So Much Space
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#42 - 2014-11-11 12:40:34 UTC
Faren Shalni wrote:
Any ship in the game is OP when you bring 500 of the things (ok exaggerated but you get the Idea)

Harpies, Eagles, Navpoc's, Drake's, Caracal's, Munnin's, Ishtars(even more op than T3) are all op in their own way when you have loads of them until you use a counter.


Except that there is no counter to them...unless you suggest hostile geddon fleet should be hunting them around with bunch of nano geddons. They outperform even napocs. Now this is in terms of fleet fights ofcourse
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2014-11-11 16:59:52 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
Faren Shalni wrote:
Any ship in the game is OP when you bring 500 of the things (ok exaggerated but you get the Idea)

Harpies, Eagles, Navpoc's, Drake's, Caracal's, Munnin's, Ishtars(even more op than T3) are all op in their own way when you have loads of them until you use a counter.


Except that there is no counter to them...unless you suggest hostile geddon fleet should be hunting them around with bunch of nano geddons. They outperform even napocs. Now this is in terms of fleet fights ofcourse


or fighting them close range, landing on them tackling them etc. I hear curse's are good at neuting and can shield tank really well for a recon

Null sec combat meta is based around Kite, outranging and outmanoeuvring your opponent. So outmanoeuvre them. Your not going to get an I win ship to kill T3's, we WHers learnt this and utilize other tactics to deal with them effectively, (ewar, damps, neuts)

Lets also not forget that Rails are super strong right now

So Much Space
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#44 - 2014-11-11 19:18:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Bl1SkR1N
Faren Shalni wrote:
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
Faren Shalni wrote:
Any ship in the game is OP when you bring 500 of the things (ok exaggerated but you get the Idea)

Harpies, Eagles, Navpoc's, Drake's, Caracal's, Munnin's, Ishtars(even more op than T3) are all op in their own way when you have loads of them until you use a counter.


Except that there is no counter to them...unless you suggest hostile geddon fleet should be hunting them around with bunch of nano geddons. They outperform even napocs. Now this is in terms of fleet fights ofcourse


or fighting them close range, landing on them tackling them etc. I hear curse's are good at neuting and can shield tank really well for a recon

Null sec combat meta is based around Kite, outranging and outmanoeuvring your opponent. So outmanoeuvre them. Your not going to get an I win ship to kill T3's, we WHers learnt this and utilize other tactics to deal with them effectively, (ewar, damps, neuts)

Lets also not forget that Rails are super strong right now



Nope, thats not how nullsec warfare works :) I know that you, WH dudes, use those tactics a lot, but those fights are very different. With fights of 400 guys on grid you can't do stuff like tackle down enemy fleet. Ofcourse they can be killed by blobbing, bringing more tengus or caps...but that's back to unbalanced question.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#45 - 2014-11-11 19:37:58 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
The reason T3s are utterly overpowered is because they have ridiculous stat values. It has little to do with their flexibility, in fact most subsystems rarely get used if at all by people who know what they're doing. Those subsystems may be overpowered but not AS overpowered as some of the others.

A strategic cruiser can have small end of cruiser signature radius, agility, and max velocity while having battlecruiser slot and weapons layout, capacitor, and hit points. This alone is way too much, but then on top of that they get higher than tech 2 resistances and weapon damage bonuses that allow their overall DPS to beat even battlecruisers. Their effective hit points go up to the upper end of battleship hit points, often beating Abaddons and Rokhs in overall EHP.


This is absolutely true. Nerf their resists and PG. Make them cruisers, not HACs with BS EHP. They are better HACs than HACs, Ishtar excepted, because Ishtar OP. Something about BS weapons on a cruiser, and a full rack of utility high slots, full rack of shield tank, and a full rack of dps mods n the lows+ DC.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-11-11 21:16:10 UTC
Rroff wrote:
even an eagle in that role has over 100K EHP and slightly better damage projection.

If an Eagle has better damage projection than a Tengu, then you've done something very wrong with the Tengu.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
YpsMaI
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2014-11-20 12:44:02 UTC
Nerf tengu.

Necromancer
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#48 - 2014-11-20 14:47:10 UTC
Nerf defensive subs and we go.
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#49 - 2014-11-20 23:50:52 UTC
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:
Nerf defensive subs and we go.

would probably sufficie yeah...
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