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Requesting the CSM to ask CCP to remove Jump Fatigue

First post First post
Author
AngelAUT
Gesellschaft mit beschraenkter Haftung
THIS IS MY SAFETY
#121 - 2014-12-19 12:38:15 UTC  |  Edited by: AngelAUT
bridges useless black ops bs useless remove it.
Erasmus Grant
Un4seen Development
Sev3rance
#122 - 2014-12-22 04:08:02 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
When I first started EVE, some U-MAD guys thought me that:

Remember whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the right response is

Thank You CCP, may we please have another?

Oh yes, a harder game! MORE PLEASE.


I love you.
Miniemoo
Perkone
Caldari State
#123 - 2014-12-29 20:40:15 UTC
+ 1

Now this a PVP barrier
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2014-12-29 21:12:23 UTC
Miniemoo wrote:
+ 1

Now this a PVP barrier


I disagree, there are still battle reports coming out, still violence being done. It does put up a barrier against a specific TYPE of PvP, the hotdrop of redonculous proportions where Bored Super Pilots hit a miner with Dreadnaughts. But a barrier making Null peace and sunshine and lollipop wielding carebears?

nuh uh

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Miniemoo
Perkone
Caldari State
#125 - 2014-12-29 21:32:15 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Miniemoo wrote:
+ 1

Now this a PVP barrier


I disagree, there are still battle reports coming out, still violence being done. It does put up a barrier against a specific TYPE of PvP, the hotdrop of redonculous proportions where Bored Super Pilots hit a miner with Dreadnaughts. But a barrier making Null peace and sunshine and lollipop wielding carebears?

nuh uh

m



i think it impacts the player that does not have 4-5 accounts accounts when you live in a region and have to travel from isk hunting grounds to join fleets reduces speed of form ups ect. ect.
Zappity
Kurved Trading
#126 - 2014-12-29 21:46:07 UTC
Miniemoo wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
Miniemoo wrote:
+ 1

Now this a PVP barrier


I disagree, there are still battle reports coming out, still violence being done. It does put up a barrier against a specific TYPE of PvP, the hotdrop of redonculous proportions where Bored Super Pilots hit a miner with Dreadnaughts. But a barrier making Null peace and sunshine and lollipop wielding carebears?

nuh uh

m



i think it impacts the player that does not have 4-5 accounts accounts when you live in a region and have to travel from isk hunting grounds to join fleets reduces speed of form ups ect. ect.

Perhaps this is more about how many blues you have chosen to surround yourself with?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2014-12-29 21:54:23 UTC
If I live on a mountain I should not complain about the lack of waterfront property.

If you live deep within a Blue part of space you cannot complain that we have removed the easy button of cross galaxy teleportation and you now have to commute or even MOVE to where the action is. You cannot be both safe AND a threat.

But as has been said before and I will probably say a lot more often. This is ONE STEP in a process. You are complaining you cannot live in a house that does not even have walls yet. Give CCP the time to make ALL the changes, I will still be here to listen to you comment, compliment, or complain but I am looking at the long game, not how things are perceived to be in the short run.

No more than I complain that a house is drafty when they still haven't installed the roof or windows.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Caleb Seremshur
Naked Oiled Bodybuilders
Parasitic Legion.
#128 - 2014-12-31 04:41:14 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:
It is pointless, irritating and there are more would-be pilots spinning ships in stations now than ever before.
CCP have already reduced Jump ranges for jump-capable ships.
Jump fatigue is just going to diminish Fleet content.

Really, I doubt I am the only person who feels the same.

Get rid of Jump Fatigue, it serves no constructive purpose in EVE.


ITT: massive amounts of not getting the point.

The point: slowing down any entities ability to move large masses of forces over long distances in a timeframe that directly inhibits the aggressing parties ability to cause reasonable damage before defenders arrive.

The reason: because leaving space assets undefended or under-defended should have penalties. The previous mode of gameplay allowed a given capital to travel from one side of the EVE cluster to the other in 12 minutes. Regional defence as a concept was a total joke because any act of aggression would be met with almost immediate retaliation.

The solution and why it works: the solution we received was to slow down how defending forces respond to an attack. If a given front was under-staffed by defence forces then flanking actions could be utilised to *divide* the enemy and *conquer* them as smaller partitions of their larger force. The game under the new model changed from being a super-hotdrop disco to requiring a much more indepth degree of strategy and tactics. This is why major null groups withdrew from their greater borders so quickly. Because they knew that strategically the amount of space they controlled was undefendable and that tactically they would need to station their forces more locally to their income generating sources in order to defend them properly.

I can't believe this basic idea still needs to be spelt out for people. If you've failed to grasp this idea and make it work then it shows that your institution suffers from very weak planning. You clearly are living in an environment that is more complex than the organisms within it (i.e. you).
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#129 - 2014-12-31 08:54:24 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
You cannot be both safe AND a threat.


A succint explaination of the reason for the long distance travel changes.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#130 - 2014-12-31 17:24:11 UTC
Did not read all... but..

*Flashes 10.5 year vet badge*

Back in my day, we had to go 15KM to the gate before we could jump... both ways... in the midst of gate camps...

And we never heard of this thing called a JB. You kids have it easy.

REMOVE JB.

HTFU

-1

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#131 - 2014-12-31 18:24:02 UTC
Now a more serious reply:

As already stated, jump fatigue is just stage one of changes. We don't fully know what all of them will be, or how they will effect whats going on. If for example ccp does no sov at all, that you don't claim anything, then this changes all game play fully. If they do occupational type sov and make it so you can produce things locally with easy, then this will have another effect.

What you are doing is you have your face pressed right up to the glass of one of them murual type pictures (the picture that is made up of smaller pictures) looking at a single picture going 'wow... this sucks... why would anyone pay for this pos?' Where as, when CCP starts telling you what is coming, that will most likely be like someone comes up to you and goes 'dude... take like 6 steps back and then look' Now you will see the whole. And go "OH! now I get it!" You could still yea "yea but that's still crap, but I get the idea"

That's the issue. Jump Fatigue is not going to go away. Its part of a whole. And as the whole picture starts to take shape, ccp might modify jump fatigue till it fits into the large picture.

Stop playing eve like its a day game, and look at it in concepts of years, and you will shrug off jump fatigue as until you see the whole thing, you can't really judge.

Also... use gates. or there are these awesome things that came out in 09 called wormholes. You prolly have one a few jumps form you right now, and it might lead you to 3 from jita in 2 jumps.. and cost you no jump fatigue. Who would of thought?

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

dragon65
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#132 - 2015-01-02 08:00:21 UTC
in part i do not have a problem with the Jump Fatigue, on the other hand with it and the nerfing the carrier jump range it takes an entire day to move 30 jumps. honestly i have a carrier that i cant use anymore i trained up for it so i was usefull but now im not by haveing both it just seems over kill.
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2015-01-06 08:46:37 UTC
I like the changes as they are. It means that, instead of being able to throw huge fleets and/or capitals at every problem that shows up, deployments need to be thought out strategically. Yes, it's harder to move around, but that means you're more likely to find similar-sized fleets to fight without risking capital escalation by engaging.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#134 - 2015-01-06 08:47:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
dragon65 wrote:
in part i do not have a problem with the Jump Fatigue, on the other hand with it and the nerfing the carrier jump range it takes an entire day to move 30 jumps. honestly i have a carrier that i cant use anymore i trained up for it so i was usefull but now im not by haveing both it just seems over kill.


That was exactly the whole point of the change: To make being 30 jumps away from somewhere actually mean something.

Your carrier is still extremely useful; It's just not usable to help dunk on someone 3 regions away and get you home for tea with no consequences any more.

Since you're in TEST, fights are coming to you pretty much daily in any case.



EDIT: Incidentally, you can use gates now; it should take you no more than a couple of hours to go 30 jumps in a carrier - if you want to trade jump fatigue for risk.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#135 - 2015-01-06 18:30:50 UTC
dragon65 wrote:
in part i do not have a problem with the Jump Fatigue, on the other hand with it and the nerfing the carrier jump range it takes an entire day to move 30 jumps. honestly i have a carrier that i cant use anymore i trained up for it so i was usefull but now im not by haveing both it just seems over kill.



Lets see how we can solv the 3 day thing really fast shall we? You are in test, which has sov. Your leaders need to add the wormhole upgrades in there ihubs and you scan your area. I'll bet you right now you have a wh in one of your systems that you can take that will most likely move you to an area you want to go, or at the very least reduce your jump range. You also have gates, as in you jump someplace, wait till cyno ends, have your cyno pilot scout the way, and you move via gates to get a tad closer to your next jump and maybe jump father. No fatigue and fewer cynos.

The carrier is efficient, as said above you can get there faster with higher risk, or get there slower with less risk.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Kon Kre8r
#136 - 2015-01-10 00:56:26 UTC
The whole purpose for this FAILED jump fatigue system (as stated at time of presentation of concept) was to limit any group from crossing the entire map in minutes, thus bringing everything and everyone from anywhere to anywhere.

I would think that KISS applies here -- Keep It Simple Stupid !

So if we MUST be limited in this fashion a much more simple system can be used as follows:

1) Simply allow for any number of jumps within Max Jump Range of starting point for those of us who just want to travel within a set Region.

2) For those of us who trained on Black Ops, covert jump drives should not be limited. If only because of the requirement to invest months in training for this.

3) Go ahead and limit the jumping of others via my covert jump portal generator with your fatigue system that has been set up to have variants for certain ships with 90% this and 80% that, but….

I AGREE WITH U GUYS when you say -- LEAVE JUMP BRIDGES ALONE
But -- we all know that this is much like trying to skip rocks across the lake - no matter how many times we try -- no matter how hard we try -- the likelihood of getting game decision makers to agree with us….

Black Ops ships using Covert Jump Portals with Covert Cynos are NOT allowed to use Covert Cloaks. That makes sense.

Eldwinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#137 - 2015-01-10 01:07:28 UTC
Are the tears really still going after a couple months have passed? Probably best for you to find another game to play at this stage. The jump fatigue changes have improved content overall. Meaning there are more wars and persons trying to take SOV. Including small groups.
M1k3y Koontz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2015-01-10 15:44:05 UTC
Hi, I live in nullsec. PL are two cynos over, and BL a few cynos in the other direction. Without fatigue, we would be unable to operate with capitals.

Nay Stigma wrote:
Just make Jump Fatigue little less time, I have 30days to wait now. I mean really!!


Then you done goofed son. Watch your fatigue next time.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#139 - 2015-01-10 16:10:10 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Hi, I live in nullsec. PL are two cynos over, and BL a few cynos in the other direction. Without fatigue, we would be unable to operate with capitals.

Nay Stigma wrote:
Just make Jump Fatigue little less time, I have 30days to wait now. I mean really!!


Then you done goofed son. Watch your fatigue next time.

Just gonna step in and say, Fatigue has done more for letting overhyped mercenary wannabes operate with impunity than any other mechanic in history (and you cant deny that accusation, i flew with SYJ for YEARS, still love you guys, except pell, never pell, okay pell too)
Lorren Canada
High is the Way - But all eyes are Upon the Ground
#140 - 2015-01-11 17:33:28 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Hi, I live in nullsec. PL are two cynos over, and BL a few cynos in the other direction. Without fatigue, we would be unable to operate with capitals.


For the sake of argument I won't argue this but I will say that there are much better ways of limiting capital mobility than fatigue. It's really nothing more than an enormous pain in the ass in every possible way and has severely hampered some other times of game play like Blopsing which is not longer attractive as it accumulates fatigue.