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Advice on avoiding the Suicide gank

First post
Author
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#121 - 2014-11-03 22:03:48 UTC
You're absolutely right your choices affect the game. And that trying to be safe is in itself a goal and valid gameplay tactic. What you haven't quite addressed yet is how the two blend in together as I've typically found that people who try and remain as safe as possible typically make the smallest impact on the game as a whole.

And before you mention station trading alts I'm sure the kind of money and associated risks they deal with is far more than a paltry hulk in value.

The simplest and largest problems eve has are as follows.

Unlimited resources.
CONCORD
The size of high sec in terms of physical systems.
The execution of the mission system.
Bounties.
The gate system.
Cynos and capital drops.
Overtanked t2&t3

That is in order from most important to least important. Nearly a year ago I said that the secret to this game having a better economy was to increase consumption of materials. Now we see with wormholes a respectable increase in parts required to manufacture things. The point is to create a deficiency. Deficiency means work available.

And as always CONCORD does not protect. It punishes the guilty.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#122 - 2014-11-03 22:04:07 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

In fact it's entirely unbalanced how easy it is for a non combat ship to never die.

Easy solution: Give freighter guns and high slots with appropriate pg/cpu. Problem solved.Cool
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#123 - 2014-11-03 22:07:20 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

In fact it's entirely unbalanced how easy it is for a non combat ship to never die.

Easy solution: Give freighter guns and high slots with appropriate pg/cpu. Problem solved.Cool


No, I was thinking more along the lines of neutral webs making them invincible should stop being a thing. I even use this tactic to a significant extent and I think it's completely broken.

Their enormous tank that requires twenty people to crack in time would be justified if they couldn't warp in less than a second.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

ll Kuray ll
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#124 - 2014-11-03 22:11:05 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ll Kuray ll wrote:
Regardless ganking needs to be treated with the same venom. If you are going to engage in it there has to be consequence. I'm not talking banned from eve type consequence but enough to really push gankers into deciding if it is really going to pay off to gank someone in high sec.


There are consequences. Just because you aren't able to recognize them does not mean they don't exist, and just because smart gameplay can work around them does not mean they don't have an impact.

And as for "pay off", that's not really up to us. It's up to the fools who overload their freighters and afk through twenty jumps.


This is tough, how many times do i need to says its a lot easier today to not feel the consequence. gank someone in high sec 5 years ago and you're out in null sec ratting for 5 days to make the isk back, now you run incursions, run a few level 5's in a carrier that you can also afford. If anything Gankers are just as guilty at being lazy. It's nothing to do with smart game play.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2014-11-03 22:13:17 UTC
It's a communication issue on CCP's part.

Highsec should be renamed Midsec. Because the term 'High Security' gives people the impression that you're perfectly safe, which is false.

Bounties should be eliminated. Because bounties give people the impression that you can 'get back' at gankers just by clicking a button, which is false.

Corporations should be renamed Gangbang Parties. Because the term 'corporation' gives people the impression that you can't be legally killed by your corpmates which is... oh wait at least this one will probably be true, soon. Bear

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#126 - 2014-11-03 22:16:43 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

In fact it's entirely unbalanced how easy it is for a non combat ship to never die.

Easy solution: Give freighter guns and high slots with appropriate pg/cpu. Problem solved.Cool


Stop trolling.

On topic:

The issue with eve is a meta game issue. The jump drive changes aren't a direct attack on caps or their pilots but am attack on their supporting institutions. The things that have facilitated their power for so long. Similarly if you read the minutes from the last 3 or 4 years closely you will see trends especially lately towards big metagame changes because eve has a weak culture as a game. The larger the applicant pool the healthier the gene pool. Unfortunately because of the ability to endlessly hoard assets this has provided a toxic and stagnant game where new players have trouble find opportunities for growth as they simply can't expand their operations or compete against huge isboxing efforts.

In my estimate brave newbies was a total fluke. We probably won't see anything like them ever again. And not to mention much of their success is owed to a combination of simple stupidity coupled with some excellent managerial decisions early on. Has BNI cornered the market for complete newbs retention? Is it unfair or unbalanced how non combat ships can be killed? Or survive forever? I like to look at real life examples and say that for us to answer this question truthfully we must think of a real life example first.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#127 - 2014-11-03 22:16:52 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

In fact it's entirely unbalanced how easy it is for a non combat ship to never die.

Easy solution: Give freighter guns and high slots with appropriate pg/cpu. Problem solved.Cool


No, I was thinking more along the lines of neutral webs making them invincible should stop being a thing. I even use this tactic to a significant extent and I think it's completely broken.

Their enormous tank that requires twenty people to crack in time would be justified if they couldn't warp in less than a second.

I agree. Webbing to get into warp faster is right up there with unintuitive mechanics like shooting corp-mates in hisec without concord intervention.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#128 - 2014-11-03 22:17:19 UTC
ll Kuray ll wrote:

This is tough, how many times do i need to says its a lot easier today to not feel the consequence. gank someone in high sec 5 years ago and you're out in null sec ratting for 5 days to make the isk back, now you run incursions, run a few level 5's in a carrier that you can also afford. If anything Gankers are just as guilty at being lazy. It's nothing to do with smart game play.


Are you for real?

No, the fact that you don't get insurance for ships alone means that the consequences for ganking are far, far higher than five years ago. Even if none of the other half dozen odd nerfs to ganking had occurred since then, that alone would make my point.

As it is, ganking is mostly done with alts because the consequences are too harsh to justify using a main character for it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#129 - 2014-11-03 22:17:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleb Seremshur
derp double post
ll Kuray ll
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#130 - 2014-11-03 22:18:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ll Kuray ll wrote:

So; the average Eve pilots signed in on a daily basis are lowest its beenfor a while because gankers need more pilots to gank other pilots.


Learn to read.

CONCORD kills are up because gankers need more pilots.




Quote:

Penalty being that you can easily get your sec status back, make the isk back for a new ship, Have a good drop or even in some cases ganks just for the hell of it.


First, you can't get your sec status back "easily". That's why many of us don't bother.

As for the rest, good. Ganking is intended gameplay, you are supposed to be able to do it for fun.


Quote:

I'm not going to repeat myself against the "freighter pilot not flown correctly". I've seen pilots go from gate to gate, with scouts and intel channels and webby alts and still be ganked by 12 Talos's.


And I fly my freighter alt through hotspots twice a week and I have never died. It is freaking easy to not die, even when flying a big giant bullseye like a freighter. It is laughably easy to not die.

In fact it's entirely unbalanced how easy it is for a non combat ship to never die.


I could say the same thing back to you, less pilots signed into the game, yet more concord kills for ganking. What don't you understand? Regarldess of the fact that you need more pilots to gank just shows you ganking is on the increase.

Good god pipe down with the I've never been ganked becuase I fly properly. And as for the its entirely unbalanced how easy it is for a non combat ship to never die..... that just nonscence
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#131 - 2014-11-03 22:21:35 UTC
Fun fact: the concord corpmate aggression thing will prevent webbing alts from working in hisec.

Two birds, one stone. Cool
ll Kuray ll
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#132 - 2014-11-03 22:22:45 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

In fact it's entirely unbalanced how easy it is for a non combat ship to never die.

Easy solution: Give freighter guns and high slots with appropriate pg/cpu. Problem solved.Cool


No, I was thinking more along the lines of neutral webs making them invincible should stop being a thing. I even use this tactic to a significant extent and I think it's completely broken.

Their enormous tank that requires twenty people to crack in time would be justified if they couldn't warp in less than a second.


You mean the same webby alts that are also being targetted and alpha-ed before it can get webs on a freighter?
voetius
Grundrisse
#133 - 2014-11-03 22:24:06 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Regarding hauling:

EDIT: Tiny stuff (200 m3 or so) --> Covops

Small stuff (10,000 m3 or so) --> Blockade runner

Medium stuff (60,000 m3 or so) --> Deep Space Transport, super stabbed for lowsec, super tanked for highsec

Big stuff --> In Highsec, Red Frog. In lowsec, Jump Freighter. For the highsec jumps of the JF, use bulkeads and always stay in 0.8 and above. If I'm not mistaken, it's extremely difficult to suicide gank a triple bulkhead JF in 0.8 and above. Plus, as suggested, have an emergency cyno ready to jump out if you're bumped but not pointed.


I prefer a super stabbed and dual propped DST for high sec, but otherwise agrre completely, spot on +1
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#134 - 2014-11-03 22:24:41 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Unfortunately because of the ability to endlessly hoard assets this has provided a toxic and stagnant game where new players have trouble find opportunities for growth as they simply can't expand their operations or compete against huge isboxing efforts.


In this sentence, you have identified two problems.

The first being Isboxer. Being able to so multiplicatively use additional accounts is, in my opinion, absolutely unacceptable.

The second is more subtle. Why is it that people are so able to endlessly hoard assets, causing greater and greater inflation in the game, crippling the amount of purchasing power capable with a new player's potential income?

It's because there is not enough loss in this game. The game is too safe.

And that can be chalked up to nothing else but highsec. Highsec safety is the literal cause of stagnation and inflation both.

And everything CCP has been doing about this for years now amounts to nothing but steps in the wrong direction.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#135 - 2014-11-03 22:25:22 UTC
ll Kuray ll wrote:

You mean the same webby alts that are also being targetted and alpha-ed before it can get webs on a freighter?


Well, considering how that was either a lie or an enormous mismanagement of his own ships...

Yep.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#136 - 2014-11-03 22:25:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Fun fact: the concord corpmate aggression thing will prevent webbing alts from working in hisec.

Two birds, one stone. Cool


Fun Actual Fact: Only if CCP also removes or changes the Dueling mechanic.

Two Girls, One pizza guy.

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#137 - 2014-11-03 22:27:48 UTC
ll Kuray ll wrote:

Good god pipe down with the I've never been ganked becuase I fly properly. And as for the its entirely unbalanced how easy it is for a non combat ship to never die..... that just nonscence


It's not "nonscence", whatever that means, nor is it nonsense.

It makes perfect sense. That's why my freighter alt, about to be plural soon, have never died to a suicide gank.

Because I fit and fly my ship like I have two brain cells to rub together. Highsec is so freaking safe that you almost have to try to die.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2014-11-03 22:30:37 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Fun fact: the concord corpmate aggression thing will prevent webbing alts from working in hisec.

Two birds, one stone. Cool


Fun Actual Fact: Only if CCP also removes the Dueling mechanic.

Two Girls, One pizza guy.
^^This, obviously.

Except the Dueling mechanic is better, because each time the LE timer resets it plays that sweet spine-tingling sound effect that makes you sh*t your pants a little at each gate.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

ll Kuray ll
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#139 - 2014-11-03 22:30:53 UTC  |  Edited by: ll Kuray ll
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
ll Kuray ll wrote:

You mean the same webby alts that are also being targetted and alpha-ed before it can get webs on a freighter?


Well, considering how that was either a lie or an enormous mismanagement of his own ships...

Yep.


Jesus; not once have you acknowledged that plenty of people pilot, to your standard, the correct way and are being caught as easily as those that stick it on AP with carog expanders..
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#140 - 2014-11-03 22:31:38 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Fun fact: the concord corpmate aggression thing will prevent webbing alts from working in hisec.

Two birds, one stone. Cool


Fun Actual Fact: Only if CCP also removes or changes the Dueling mechanic.

Two Girls, One pizza guy.

Hmmm, forgot about some of these new fangled mechanics they introduced. Ah, well.