These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Advice on avoiding the Suicide gank

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#61 - 2014-11-03 15:18:35 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Do you know what the word "aspirant" actually means? I'll give you a clue, it doesn't mean "have one single element of your playstyle remotely in common with another". You could argue all miners are bot aspirant because they use mining barges, just like some bots. All traders are bot aspirant because the update orders, just like some bots. All players are bot aspirant because they log in, just like bots.


Except that I am not saying any of those things.

But if you got ganked while mining, you were not actively at your keyboard. That is bot aspirancy.

Quote:
since their actions are more likely to make botters and "bot aspirants" more effective, not less, while punishing a player who is just playing the game.


No, said player was not playing the game. If he was playing the game, he would not have been ganked.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#62 - 2014-11-03 15:19:29 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I don't have to justify PvP in a PvP game.


Yea, you would like that.

Ganking and PvP would not be a problem. It is however a problem what and how codies are doing it and the discrepancy between the arguments that codies give why and what they are doing it and why and what they are really doing.


No.

PvP in a PvP game is never a problem. No exceptions.

If you think otherwise, Star Trek Online is waiting for you.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#63 - 2014-11-03 15:21:47 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


No.

PvP in a PvP game is never a problem. No exceptions.

If you think otherwise, Star Trek Online is waiting for you.


Except in rookie systems. Or when bumping Titans outside of POS shields. Or when managing to evade CONCORD. Or when utilizing changing prices to exploit bounties. Or utilizing any other manners of exploits or disallowed PvP.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#64 - 2014-11-03 15:23:33 UTC
Well, to be fair sometimes it's just your turn to get ganked and there's nothing you can do about it :)
But in general being paranoid and awake at keyboard prevents 99% of attempts on integrity of one's rock drilling pixels :)

You have no idea how my paranoia jumped up everytime miners warped AWAY from my belt. Why did they do it? Did they just scouted me? Do they know something I don't? Did they just reported me on ganking intel channels and clean up crew is already en route? Why is that venture getting so close?

Invalid signature format
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#65 - 2014-11-03 15:25:30 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


No.

PvP in a PvP game is never a problem. No exceptions.

If you think otherwise, Star Trek Online is waiting for you.


Except in rookie systems. Or when bumping Titans outside of POS shields. Or when managing to evade CONCORD. Or when utilizing changing prices to exploit bounties. Or utilizing any other manners of exploits or disallowed PvP.


Those aren't PvP, those are exploits.

This is the problem of course, because to risk averse shitheel like you, PvP itself is an exploit, and you want it removed.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2014-11-03 15:27:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Some Rando
Veers Belvar wrote:
How this would help the game, no one is quite sure, but apparently that fact hasn't stopped these folks from lighting 450 billion ISK on fire in a failed attempt to make highsec inhospitable for PvE players.

Eh, they're not trying to make high-sec inhospitable, they're just playing the game and providing some daytime soap-opera-level entertainment through the likes of you.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#67 - 2014-11-03 15:41:57 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


No.

PvP in a PvP game is never a problem. No exceptions.

If you think otherwise, Star Trek Online is waiting for you.


Except in rookie systems. Or when bumping Titans outside of POS shields. Or when managing to evade CONCORD. Or when utilizing changing prices to exploit bounties. Or utilizing any other manners of exploits or disallowed PvP.


Those aren't PvP, those are exploits.

This is the problem of course, because to risk averse shitheel like you, PvP itself is an exploit, and you want it removed.


Oh Kaarous....always so angry. Gotta learn to relax. Any player driven activity competitive with others is "PvP," whether exploit or not (and since when is shooting rookies in a rookie system an exploit??? There is a real doozie). The fact is that PvP is sometimes allowed and sometimes not allowed. Trivial.
Helia Tranquilis
Confused Bunnies Inc
#68 - 2014-11-03 15:42:32 UTC
Intel is your best friend.

1. Go to killboard and find concord kills. Start going through that list until you have a redlist of 20 pages including individuals in NPC corps and corporations known to be criminal of nature.

2. Spend time on systems that you travel through. Go sit in hub pipes and observe, note the timezones. Tag every cargo scanner and bumping machariel with orange. Now you have a list that enables you to anticipate problems several jumps before hand.

3. Never not use a ridiculous tank. Blocade runner with absolute max ehp and always carry less than 100M worth of candy.

4. Use your brain. Iteron 5 with sebo's running will likely mean a tornado on the other side of the gate.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#69 - 2014-11-03 15:43:32 UTC
Some Rando wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
How this would help the game, no one is quite sure, but apparently that fact hasn't stopped these folks from lighting 450 billion ISK on fire in a failed attempt to make highsec inhospitable for PvE players.

Eh, they're not trying to make high-sec inhospitable, they're just playing the game and providing some daytime soap-opera-level entertainment through the likes of you.


No, this really isn't true. Their goal is to fundamentally alter the risk/reward ratio in highsec to make it less attractive than nullsec, and get players to to move to nullsec. Read their website, talk to them, that has always been their overarching objective. Now in doing so, they are hurting the new/casual players and help the botters/boxers, and thus undermining their own desires...but no one accused them of being overly competent.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#70 - 2014-11-03 15:53:22 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
But if you got ganked while mining, you were not actively at your keyboard. That is bot aspirancy.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
No, said player was not playing the game. If he was playing the game, he would not have been ganked.
Except that's not the case. During the ice interdiction, we ganked plenty of miners who were not bot aspirant. We know this because as we arrived they scrambled to get away, then yelled in local when they inevitably failed. In the few times when we knew somebody was expecting us, we had a venture bump them.

Being ganked is not proof in itself of being AFK, and to suggest it is, that's lunacy.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Awesome MILF
Doomheim
#71 - 2014-11-03 15:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Awesome MILF
Easy, use T2 industrials for example a Mastodon.

Additionally fill them with Warp Core Stabilizers, its such an awesome experience to escape from a suicide ganker while his ship is concorded :')

Avoid freighters as they can't fit warp core stabilizers, and never move more than 500m ISK worth. Also be careful when moving lots of crappy blueprints, they may worth 10m isk total, but the ganker might think its worth much more.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#72 - 2014-11-03 16:00:17 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
But if you got ganked while mining, you were not actively at your keyboard. That is bot aspirancy.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
No, said player was not playing the game. If he was playing the game, he would not have been ganked.
Except that's not the case. During the ice interdiction, we ganked plenty of miners who were not bot aspirant. We know this because as we arrived they scrambled to get away, then yelled in local when they inevitably failed. In the few times when we knew somebody was expecting us, we had a venture bump them.

Being ganked is not proof in itself of being AFK, and to suggest it is, that's lunacy.


If they aren't gone within ten second of a bunch of neg tens jumping into local, then yeah, they were either afk or sufficiently not paying attention enough to cause the same effect.

That's bot aspirancy, that is not actively playing the game.

Them yelling at you afterward does not mean they were at their keyboard, it means they noticed the loss eventually.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2014-11-03 16:03:57 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
No, this really isn't true. Their goal is to fundamentally alter the risk/reward ratio in highsec to make it less attractive than nullsec, and get players to to move to nullsec. Read their website, talk to them, that has always been their overarching objective.

That's all just a big excuse to get people out there playing the game and generating content. It serves a secondary purpose getting people like you all frothing at the mouth in-game and on the forums, generating even more content.

That's why I'm a shareholder.

Veers Belvar wrote:
Now in doing so, they are hurting the new/casual players and help the botters/boxers, and thus undermining their own desires

You're going to need more than anecdotal evidence to support this tinfoilery.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#74 - 2014-11-03 16:13:02 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
If they aren't gone within ten second of a bunch of neg tens jumping into local, then yeah, they were either afk or sufficiently not paying attention enough to cause the same effect.

That's bot aspirancy, that is not actively playing the game.

Them yelling at you afterward does not mean they were at their keyboard, it means they noticed the loss eventually.
IF the gankers are neg 10 and IF the gankers are jumping in a huge blob and IF the local list isn't inflated by the mass of isboxer fleets, then you may notice them, sure. Although that does seem to mean that if someone looks away from their monitor, or checks their eve-mail or updates a market order, or any number of other things that make take away a moment of attention, then they are bot aspirant, which is clearly not the case.

Even if you do continue to extend your definition of bot aspirant behavior to encapsulate everyone in the game, it still doesn't change the fact that botters benefit from the actions of CODE.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#75 - 2014-11-03 16:14:34 UTC
Some Rando wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
No, this really isn't true. Their goal is to fundamentally alter the risk/reward ratio in highsec to make it less attractive than nullsec, and get players to to move to nullsec. Read their website, talk to them, that has always been their overarching objective.

That's all just a big excuse to get people out there playing the game and generating content. It serves a secondary purpose getting people like you all frothing at the mouth in-game and on the forums, generating even more content.

That's why I'm a shareholder.

Veers Belvar wrote:
Now in doing so, they are hurting the new/casual players and help the botters/boxers, and thus undermining their own desires

You're going to need more than anecdotal evidence to support this tinfoilery.



Meh, I'm hardly angry about this stuff - it's more of a source of amusement. The gankers constantly push the envelope, thinking they are "content creators" or bringers of "emergent gameplay," and CCP eventually responds by increasing tank on ships, nerfing mechanics like awoxxing, or taking disciplinary action against inappropriate behavior. It's the gankers themselves, who by constantly pushing the envelope, are the ones spurring CCP to institute the very nerfs they decry. If you haven't been paying attention the gank folks here are genuinely distraught over the awox changes...it's not just having fun and "generating content," as they do in fact deeply care about playing the game.

As for CODE hurting new players and not bots/boxers - check out their website...it all revolves around drama and tears...things you don't get from boxers. The fact is that ganking can be effective against an indivudal miner, but there is no way to impose sufficient costs on an ISBoxer to make mining unprofitable for him.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#76 - 2014-11-03 16:16:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Some Rando wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Now in doing so, they are hurting the new/casual players and help the botters/boxers, and thus undermining their own desires

You're going to need more than anecdotal evidence to support this tinfoilery.
It's not tinfoilery, it's fact. It's been explained several times and can be verified using data from killboards and is supported by posts on miner bumping. CODE members target regular players, they generally do not target bots. This means that they are reducing the level of competition up against botters and so increase the overall effectiveness of botters. Whether they are trying to do exactly that or are just incompetent is anyone guess, but that's the effect their actions have.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#77 - 2014-11-03 16:23:42 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
]IF the gankers are neg 10


Which, if you were part of GSFs interdiction fleet, you were.

Most gankers are as well, since maintaining sec status is either boring, distasteful, expensive, or multiples of the before.

Quote:

and IF the gankers are jumping in a huge blob


Which, in the interdiction, you were.

As are CODE, for the most part. Thanks to CCP needlessly buffing the Magic Space Police so frequently, you very often have to gank in groups in order to nail decent value targets.


Quote:

and IF the local list isn't inflated by the mass of isboxer fleets


Which it's not. Most people are driven out of systems by the isboxed fleets, since they can't compete with people who vacuum belts.

Nevermind that when you see "+5" in local in a 0.5 system you should take a scroll through it, since that's almost always a fleet.

But you can only actually do that if you're at the keyboard and paying attention.

Quote:
Although that does seem to mean that if someone looks away from their monitor, or checks their eve-mail or updates a market order, or any number of other things that make take away a moment of attention, then they are bot aspirant, which is clearly not the case.


Those things can't be done while docked?

Quote:

Even if you do continue to extend your definition of bot aspirant behavior to encapsulate everyone in the game, it still doesn't change the fact that botters benefit from the actions of CODE.


No, botters benefit from CCP's relative inaction against them, they benefit from the completely uninteractive mechanics behind highsec in general and mining in particular, and they benefit from an over buffed mining barge tank that puts them out of reach of most single players.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#78 - 2014-11-03 16:24:54 UTC
I would even go one step further in this tinfoilery and said that them do the botting themselves, and trying to RMT. Someone have to do that, and this CODE thingy would be a great smoke curtain.

Because, why not? Suicide ganking, botting, RMT, lying, you name it. Lol

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#79 - 2014-11-03 16:36:13 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

In the case of the null/hisec reward debate, I believe my position was: "if nullsec is so sh*t, and hisec so great, why the f*ck are 30,000 people paying the null blocs billions upon billions a month for the privilege of living in null."

.... the fact that so much space is rented is the answer to the question....

That only answers the question of why do renter alliances own so much space, not the question of why there are 30,000+ renters in the first place. And no, "they are stupid" is not a good way to support your position, anymore than saying "you are wrong."


The truth if you don't really want an answer, you want to argue. Its been explained to you. Hell, it's also obvious: people don't rent out things that have excess value they could be exploiting, they rent out things that don't have any other value. That's why renting exploded after the events of the dev blog i listed, the ONLY people who'd want that space were people to weak to take it and to....something.... to be able to make the best out of isk making activities elsewhere.

This is why you find null sec corps with alt corps for faction warfare, wormholes, high sec incursions, npc null missions and low sec lvl 5 missions.

Some people rent nul space because there are some things that can only be built there. And some rent for the anomalies because they give liquid isk and aren't as tedious as some other forms of pve (and this to them is worth the dangers and making an overall lower amount of income, wormholes can be hard to maintain and lvl 5s require capital ships to get the best out of them).
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#80 - 2014-11-03 16:36:20 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Which, if you were part of GSFs interdiction fleet, you were.

Most gankers are as well, since maintaining sec status is either boring, distasteful, expensive, or multiples of the before.
No we weren't. Clearly you've not seen the run up to the interdictions or Burn Jita, but step 1 is "get your sec status up so we don't have to mess about". Sure, there's a fair few neg 10s, but most of us kept it above -2.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Which, in the interdiction, you were.

As are CODE, for the most part. Thanks to CCP needlessly buffing the Magic Space Police so frequently, you very often have to gank in groups in order to nail decent value targets.
No we weren't, we purposely avoided doing exactly that until we were performing a gank. Against a barge we'd take a small group in, and against an orca/freighter, it would be pre-bumped before we arrived.

The same is with code. Most barges that are targeted, you can do with 2 or 3 gankers with relative ease. The bigger ships you can bump with alts while you warp in, and they generally can't stop you.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Which it's not. Most people are driven out of systems by the isboxed fleets, since they can't compete with people who vacuum belts.
No, you can't effectively compete, but people still try, since they want to mine ice and with every ice system packed out with multiboxers all day long the choices are with multiboxers or not at all. With CODE not generally targeting bots and multiboxers, it makes it even harder to compete, which is the point.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Those things can't be done while docked?
LOL. You are bot aspirant if you try to do anything else, even in game, while mining. That's insanity.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
No, botters benefit from CCP's relative inaction against them, they benefit from the completely uninteractive mechanics behind highsec in general and mining in particular, and they benefit from an over buffed mining barge tank that puts them out of reach of most single players.
I don't disagree, but they ALSO benefit from CODE specifically targeting their competition. I'm not saying they are the root of the issue, but they certainly don't hinder bots by attacking the targets they choose to go after.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.