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Advice on avoiding the Suicide gank

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ggodhsup
relocation LLC.
#241 - 2014-11-04 18:45:27 UTC
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
I see a lot of Taloses on those freighter gank KMs that blow up just as fast as a Catalyst once CONCORD is on grid. Besides, what does the value of a ship have to do with anything?

I guess this hasn't sunk in for you yet, but CONCORD's job is punishment, not protection.


this^^

this thread is inspiring me to enforce the code....it seems players think that CONCORD aught to protect them while they afk mine.

although i wont lie, i autopiloted through low-sec when i was a newbie, and ginger magician made off with my ship and pod.

i will say though that i never afk autopoleted again....which is why i dont understand why everyone here is so dense....no afk=no gank
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#242 - 2014-11-04 18:54:20 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
I see a lot of Taloses on those freighter gank KMs that blow up just as fast as a Catalyst once CONCORD is on grid. Besides, what does the value of a ship have to do with anything?

I guess this hasn't sunk in for you yet, but CONCORD's job is punishment, not protection.


and the purpose of the 15 min GCC timer is what exactly?


A time out for being bad would be my guess. It also gives gankers time to pre-pull CONCORD in rookie ships in multiple surrounding systems...so in a way, that helps gankers lol.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#243 - 2014-11-04 18:56:36 UTC
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
I see a lot of Taloses on those freighter gank KMs that blow up just as fast as a Catalyst once CONCORD is on grid. Besides, what does the value of a ship have to do with anything?

I guess this hasn't sunk in for you yet, but CONCORD's job is punishment, not protection.


and the purpose of the 15 min GCC timer is what exactly?


A time out for being bad would be my guess. It also gives gankers time to pre-pull CONCORD in rookie ships in multiple surrounding systems...so in a way, that helps gankers lol.


Sounds like protecting highsec to me.... just make it longer for repeat offenders
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#244 - 2014-11-04 19:01:20 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
I see a lot of Taloses on those freighter gank KMs that blow up just as fast as a Catalyst once CONCORD is on grid. Besides, what does the value of a ship have to do with anything?

I guess this hasn't sunk in for you yet, but CONCORD's job is punishment, not protection.


and the purpose of the 15 min GCC timer is what exactly?


A time out for being bad would be my guess. It also gives gankers time to pre-pull CONCORD in rookie ships in multiple surrounding systems...so in a way, that helps gankers lol.


Sounds like protecting highsec to me.... just make it longer for repeat offenders


Except...they're not protecting anyone.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#245 - 2014-11-04 19:02:21 UTC
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
I see a lot of Taloses on those freighter gank KMs that blow up just as fast as a Catalyst once CONCORD is on grid. Besides, what does the value of a ship have to do with anything?

I guess this hasn't sunk in for you yet, but CONCORD's job is punishment, not protection.


and the purpose of the 15 min GCC timer is what exactly?


A time out for being bad would be my guess. It also gives gankers time to pre-pull CONCORD in rookie ships in multiple surrounding systems...so in a way, that helps gankers lol.


Sounds like protecting highsec to me.... just make it longer for repeat offenders


Except...they're not protecting anyone.


Then why would they interdict for 15 minutes? Sure sounds like protection to me.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#246 - 2014-11-04 19:02:44 UTC
Kiandoshia wrote:
Don't bother with the permits, I doubt they have ever protected anyone. I think it is just an elaborate scam to gather names of people to make fun of later on but I haven't read much into it.


Oh god, spacemuppet reinforcements have arrived.

Cite one single New Order source that ever made the claim that permits were about protection. They're a token financial sacrifice to show fealty to the saviour of highsec. This, combined with adhering to the Code at all times makes you Code-compliant and means we can focus our efforts on the bad guys.

Perhaps you should do some of that reading stuff that you admitted to neglecting before you comment?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#247 - 2014-11-04 19:03:54 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Then why would they interdict for 15 minutes? Sure sounds like protection to me.


Option A: you're seriously trolling at this point.
Option B: you're really that dumb that you can't tell the difference between protection and punishment.
Option C: all of the above.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#248 - 2014-11-04 19:06:23 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Then why would they interdict for 15 minutes? Sure sounds like protection to me.


Option A: you're seriously trolling at this point.
Option B: you're really that dumb that you can't tell the difference between protection and punishment.
Option C: all of the above.



C !!!!! ... what did I win?
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#249 - 2014-11-04 19:09:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Veers Belvar
admiral root wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Then why would they interdict for 15 minutes? Sure sounds like protection to me.


Option A: you're seriously trolling at this point.
Option B: you're really that dumb that you can't tell the difference between protection and punishment.
Option C: all of the above.


lolz...punishing criminals by putting them in jail is a form of protection for society as it prevents them from committing more crimes. The GCC timer protects all of highsec from the ganker...duh.

Edit - 4 reasons for punishment -

1. retributive
2. deterrence
3. rehabilitative
4. prevention of more crimes by same person


all 4 apply here
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#250 - 2014-11-04 19:25:20 UTC
CONCORD provides consequences, not protection.



☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#251 - 2014-11-04 19:41:39 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


lolz...punishing criminals by putting them in jail is a form of protection for society as it prevents them from committing more crimes. The GCC timer protects all of highsec from the ganker...duh.




The GCC is to stop people from escaping concord. It used to be possible to evade them. They buffed concord to "impossible to evade" status, then in a nerf to ganking made evading concord an official exploit. By introducing the 15 minute GCC (another nerf to ganking) they are tying up loose ends. This game has many bugs - players are adept at finding bugs and using/exploiting them for their own ends. With a 15 minute GCC you can not bounce around local evading concords attack.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#252 - 2014-11-04 19:58:18 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
CONCORD provides consequences, not protection.


Why is this so hard for some people to understand?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#253 - 2014-11-04 20:01:57 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
CONCORD provides consequences, not protection.


Why is this so hard for some people to understand?


Because consequences ARE a form of protection. They prevent the specific individual from ganking for a time, and deter others from doing the same.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#254 - 2014-11-04 20:02:46 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


lolz...punishing criminals by putting them in jail is a form of protection for society as it prevents them from committing more crimes. The GCC timer protects all of highsec from the ganker...duh.




The GCC is to stop people from escaping concord. It used to be possible to evade them. They buffed concord to "impossible to evade" status, then in a nerf to ganking made evading concord an official exploit. By introducing the 15 minute GCC (another nerf to ganking) they are tying up loose ends. This game has many bugs - players are adept at finding bugs and using/exploiting them for their own ends. With a 15 minute GCC you can not bounce around local evading concords attack.


This is the correct answer. As a result of the GCC there remains only one obscure way to evade CONCORD at present. The GCC prevents others that would exist otherwise.

It's not there as "punishment", it's there so clever people can't boomerang anymore.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#255 - 2014-11-04 20:05:19 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


lolz...punishing criminals by putting them in jail is a form of protection for society as it prevents them from committing more crimes. The GCC timer protects all of highsec from the ganker...duh.




The GCC is to stop people from escaping concord. It used to be possible to evade them. They buffed concord to "impossible to evade" status, then in a nerf to ganking made evading concord an official exploit. By introducing the 15 minute GCC (another nerf to ganking) they are tying up loose ends. This game has many bugs - players are adept at finding bugs and using/exploiting them for their own ends. With a 15 minute GCC you can not bounce around local evading concords attack.


Because the only way to ensure ship loss was to force the guy to sit for 15 minutes not for 2 minutes Roll. Come on.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#256 - 2014-11-04 20:06:02 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
CONCORD provides consequences, not protection.
Why is this so hard for some people to understand?
Arguably, many people do understand, there's just the question of the level and speed of those consequences. I'm a fan of ganking, but how cheap and easy it is to deploy destroyers to gank most targets is quite insane.

One thing I do hate is that anyone that suggests ganking needs to be more difficult or costly, or the reaction needs to be more effective immediately gets attacked for being some kind of super carebear out to rid the entire game of any form of PvP.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#257 - 2014-11-04 20:06:08 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Because the only way to ensure ship loss was to force the guy to sit for 15 minutes not for 2 minutes Roll. Come on.


He really is this ignorant, folks.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#258 - 2014-11-04 20:11:40 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Arguably, many people do understand, there's just the question of the level and speed of those consequences. I'm a fan of ganking, but how cheap and easy it is to deploy destroyers to gank most targets is quite insane.


Destroyers are intended to be a platform for cheap short range projection of dps. This is to the benefit largely of new players, who are able to increase their effectiveness in short order by training for them.

And no single player should be able to survive against twenty or more players acting in concert. Least of all if they're caught unawares. If such a thing were easily survived without any overt action of the part of the defender, it would be indicative of a horrendous imbalance in the game.


Quote:

One thing I do hate is that anyone that suggests ganking needs to be more difficult or costly, or the reaction needs to be more effective immediately gets attacked for being some kind of super carebear out to rid the entire game of any form of PvP.


Probably because PvP keeps getting chopped away to nothingness a piece at a time, historically. There's barely any of it left compared to yesteryear.

Enough is enough already. Hell, if you want to get down to it, ganking should be made easier, since the pirate playstyle is pretty much inaccessible to new players or small groups thanks to repeated nerfs.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#259 - 2014-11-04 20:12:18 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

Because the only way to ensure ship loss was to force the guy to sit for 15 minutes not for 2 minutes Roll. Come on.
He really is this ignorant, folks.
Arguably he's also right. The GCC is to limit the amount of criminal acts a criminal can perform in a given timeframe. Without it, people could considerably decrease wait time between ganks. It's certainly not there just so that concord has enough time to do their job.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#260 - 2014-11-04 20:15:27 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

Because the only way to ensure ship loss was to force the guy to sit for 15 minutes not for 2 minutes Roll. Come on.


He really is this ignorant, folks.


It would be trivial to code things to make evading CONCORD an exploit and do away with the 15 min GCC timer. The fact that it remains strongly suggests that CCP likes the "timeout," and the inability of gankers to hit more than 4 targets an hour. I don't think it would be good if every 2 minutes the gankers could hit yet another target.