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Telemortation removed: can we address medical clone costs now?

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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#121 - 2014-11-04 01:26:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Aqriue wrote:
As always, risk what you can fly and that pod included.

that's the very essence of the problem, that the pod is included

it doesn't make sense because an alpha clone character is wayyyy more fun just because you know you can fund ships all day long and die without worrying about getting hit with a 21 million ISK tax

I have -WAY- more fun traveling with my covops cyno character than -anything- else. you don't see the problem with this huge lack of fun with a fully skilled character?

there is literally no fun way to frigate. are you just always bad with your ISK? do you even skill or undock? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, so please tell me how you make it work for you:

-don't undock
-don't skill
-skill and undock and have spent X amount of ISK on med clones to do it
-only undock in ships that are way more expensive than the pod to care
-undock but avoid PVP at all costs

do you even play, broski

here's another thing... the presentation at EVE Vegas said the ISK sink was 4% of total ISK sinks. how far do you want to bet now that suicide travel -won't happen- because it doesn't work, the med clone sink will drop to more like 2% or 1%.

and in that case, the sink only affects people who play. so basically, med clones are an undock tax that players in their right mind have no choice but to pay. a robbery at gunpoint.

you want to undock? you should pay us to protect your SP. it would be a shame if something bad happened to it.

this is the litmus test of whether it belongs in the sandbox: another player will never see the transaction for med clones because it goes straight to CCP, and it affects no one else but you. bro, that's a subscription.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2014-11-04 04:46:01 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
I'm still in favour of a monthly subscription for clones so carebears pay the bills while combat pilots can happily die over and over again.


I like this as an idea. A monthly fee for coverage vs per death.

So if you don't die often, you'll find it onerous. If you do PvP a lot *AND* get waxed, it's no big deal beyond replacing implants.

Those who never die then mutter about it while those who do lose ships and die save a lot. They're the ones who actually keep the economy going.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2014-11-04 05:23:49 UTC
Cannot see these costs being a huge issue except for regular suicide gankers like CODE people.

if your going to suicide gank your targets are pathetic anyway so do it in a cheap low SP toon. That way you can just underinsure it and work the 5% loss backup in a few days or so anyway.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#124 - 2014-11-04 06:36:17 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Cannot see these costs being a huge issue except for regular suicide gankers like CODE people.

Do you live under a rock? Seriously, how dumb do you have to be to think that suicide gankers are the ones whose pods are at the most risk?

I think we can safely disregard anything you say on this subject.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#125 - 2014-11-04 06:49:33 UTC
the SP subscription fee should be accompanied by an undocking fee.
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#126 - 2014-11-04 07:19:56 UTC
Can I just get the everything plan with 3 added family members?
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2014-11-04 07:33:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Mocam
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Cannot see these costs being a huge issue except for regular suicide gankers like CODE people.

if your going to suicide gank your targets are pathetic anyway so do it in a cheap low SP toon. That way you can just underinsure it and work the 5% loss backup in a few days or so anyway.


Back about... 2 years ago, we had a uni that went out to Jita and did nothing but pop and pod gankers. They harvested a HUGE amount of outrage and had mass quotes of ticked off gankers for them getting lossmails and getting podded (they did this in an interceptor).

The point being: Suicide gankers don't get podded. They lose ships to CONCORD.

Such a change would not effect them.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#128 - 2014-11-04 09:04:16 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Pssst.

watch CCP FoxFour's presentation from Eve Vegas.

Steve, sir, I am directly opposed to your suggestion that CCP's powerpoint slides are something to trust.

Foxfour's exact words from that stream (starts at 7:20)

"We're not sure exactly what we're doing, but we do know we want to look at it. We'll probably be looking at it for December, and we'll see what happens. We're interested in knowing what you guys think. If you guys have any strong opinions on this, on what we should do, we'd love to hear from you."

This thread has been sarcastic at times but we've also kept it civil for Fozzie, and it's relatively tame by EVE standards.

So here's the strong opinions, where's the Dev participation that Fozzie said happens on EVE-O


I suggest you watch o7 tomorrow. I think we will be talking about some of this. :)

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#129 - 2014-11-04 09:52:59 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Pssst.

watch CCP FoxFour's presentation from Eve Vegas.

Steve, sir, I am directly opposed to your suggestion that CCP's powerpoint slides are something to trust.

Foxfour's exact words from that stream (starts at 7:20)

"We're not sure exactly what we're doing, but we do know we want to look at it. We'll probably be looking at it for December, and we'll see what happens. We're interested in knowing what you guys think. If you guys have any strong opinions on this, on what we should do, we'd love to hear from you."

This thread has been sarcastic at times but we've also kept it civil for Fozzie, and it's relatively tame by EVE standards.

So here's the strong opinions, where's the Dev participation that Fozzie said happens on EVE-O


I suggest you watch o7 tomorrow. I think we will be talking about some of this. :)

Considering CCP is finally making the real changes that need to happen (see Phoebe travel), I am very optimistic. Everyone knows my position on this subject. Will it be too revealing if for you to tell me if I will be happy or not?
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#130 - 2014-11-04 10:40:25 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Considering CCP is finally making the real changes that need to happen (see Phoebe travel), I am very optimistic. Everyone knows my position on this subject. Will it be too revealing if for you to tell me if I will be happy or not?

Man you're just getting everything you want, aren't you?
Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
#131 - 2014-11-04 11:19:41 UTC
Replacement medical clones should be added to the killmail imo1
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#132 - 2014-11-04 11:38:45 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:

I suggest you watch o7 tomorrow. I think we will be talking about some of this. :)


By "tomorrow" you means "tomorrow's tomorrow", right?

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#133 - 2014-11-04 12:24:48 UTC
Altrue wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:

I suggest you watch o7 tomorrow. I think we will be talking about some of this. :)


By "tomorrow" you means "tomorrow's tomorrow", right?


I'm bad with days. :(

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#134 - 2014-11-04 12:32:58 UTC
I don't know about everyone else, but I get a hard-on when I see people incur painful losses.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#135 - 2014-11-04 13:03:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
The next episode of 'o7' will be broadcast on our Twitch channel at 20:00 UTC, Thursday November 6. offline image

Trin Javidan wrote:
Replacement medical clones should be added to the killmail imo1

Amyclas Amatin wrote:
I don't know about everyone else, but I get a hard-on when I see people incur painful losses.

I used a mega, two guardians, and a damnation to clear gate rats yesterday. is everyone's ego satisfied now?
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#136 - 2014-11-04 13:23:58 UTC
I wouldn't like to see a reduction on clone costs. WRT your argument on the clone costs being more than the ship+fit you're flying, keep in mind that you pay that cost after having your pod go pop, not your ship.

As it is, clone costs serve as an isk sink.

Although the isk sink is not the main reason to leave the prices as they are. The main reason, well, depend on CCP. Bounty hunting needs work. With the old system, giving someone a bounty was simply giving them isk. Under the new system, the payout isn't worth it as a primary reason to hunt someone down. Only a secondary bonus.

If they changed how the system worked and changed how the payout is calculated, then this is where the current clone costs can be of use.

% of the value of the ship
Hunter receives the target's insurance payout
% of the value of their clone cost
% of the value of their implants

The payout can get to be pretty good. Now rework the kill right system and tie it together with the bounty system. The kill right, and therefore the bounty, is complete once the target's pod goes pop.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#137 - 2014-11-04 13:27:26 UTC
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#138 - 2014-11-04 13:53:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Primary This Rifter
Angeal MacNova wrote:
As it is, clone costs serve as an isk sink.

The isk sink is so absurdly small that my spacepoor self could probably cover it for everyone in this game for November and possibly through December as well, judging from the math given by some dude in this thread who took the opposite position. It may as well not exist, the economy certainly isn't going to notice the difference.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#139 - 2014-11-04 14:09:53 UTC
Isk sinks are fine, isk sinks that are punitive to specific player types (WH/null/and the heros of my heart, dictor pilots specifically) are just bad.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#140 - 2014-11-04 14:20:26 UTC
people who undock where it matters, and where CCP wants people to go for their gameplay.