EVE General Discussion

So you would say the choice for those who find med clone costs prohibitively expensive for certain kinds of pvp to be either a) don't undock or b) stop training ?

You are right. What you said was that you have trained up so much and not you are whining about not being able to afford your clone because you are too lazy to find some way to make isk. I find it absolutely absurd that someone who uses an archon for PVP is complaining about this. I have no idea what the SP range on your main is, but your ship alone is 35x the price of my clone. So, if you cant afford, or dont want to pay that small fee on a clone. Why don't you just stop training? Maybe you coud move to lowsec or high sec if you really want the 99% survival rate for your pod if medical clones are that big of an issue.
No one is forcing you to LIVE in a place where Warp Disruption Bubbles are commonly used.

This entire discussion is stupid and is leaning to the "Oh CCP make nullsec living easier and free." You took the risk to live in nullsec. With that risk comes having to upgrade your medical clones.


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And in regards to the ratting. I understand that the system is being ratted by many many people. However, it still doesnt excuse the laziness of people to not want to do something to play this game in the area they live in. Then going on about how it "hinders" them because they have to go PVE to play this game.

Lets say CCP remove costs from medical clones. In a year are you going to ask them to respawn your ships after they blow up too? Are you going to then ask them to remove clones all together? I mean if they are revisiting old mechanics lets revisit the ship destroyed and gone forever. I mean I shouldnt have to PVE for my ships. That way I can constantly fly Nyx's and Hels while in lowsec.

Also, when my clone is destroyed I shouldnt have to replace my implants.

Lets just slowly inch this towards a completely risk-free game.

Sigh...

10.5 year char, 130m sp's, non pvper, no implants ever. Hence the 130m sp's.

Usually when i do pvp i take into account that i will lose X ammount in a ship, i tend to not use insurence cause well i die to much. At times i have auto piloted in either a pod or a shuttle, and found myself in a clone vat, usually due to someone being bored and thinking they will get an implant kill. I have been caught several times after losing a ship, both in hs, ls, wh, and null, and died. Death is not what bothers me. But that annoying clicking of upgrading my clone is. Oftern i have completely forgotten about upgrading, and sat in a wh where even if i remembered i couldn't fix it. Only to find out i just lost sp's in a skill that will take me 30 days or more to readd. its annoying. But thats not the point. Losing my ship, my implants, my mods, whatever is one thing. I can take that into account. But the clone cost are irritating. It also makes me personally not want to fly anything below a BS.

The point is, the death penality makes no since. But, thats not even what ccp is saying. They want to remove that clone fee, an give players CHOICES. You essentually have no choice. You have to pay that fee or risk losing sp. However, but if adding a choice to this process improves the game, then i'm all for it.

Imagine, you could chose to get a clone that has a special upgrade, for a fee, or you want to play on hard mode with perma death, or something.

can we make a deal? if you stop posting, I will too. as much as I love this, I'm totally down.

I honestly don't see the point in this.

A 120 Million SP clone currently costs 10.5 M ISK.

How else can you make losing a pod mean something to a 5+ year character, other than charging at least 10.5 M ISK?

You're right, I checked in a fully-upgraded Faction Warfare system. -50% med clone costs, nice perk!


I see your point on the other consequences of losing a pod, but those would apply to ship loss too and nobody's saying ships should be free just because when you lose them they're not on-grid anymore.


Personally I think the simple principle of

'stuff gets blowed up --> there's a non-zero cost to replace it'

should apply to everything, including empty pods.


Then it's a question of figures. 10 Mil (say, 'faction frigate level') for a 120 M SP clone seemed quite reasonable to me, 20 Mil (say, 'assault frig level') may be a bit too high...

So CCP could just further tweak (decrease) the costs (like they already did 1-2 years ago).

And yes, I do agree that now is a perfect time to do that (cost tweak/decrease), since death-cloning has just been effectively removed.


Last consideration: while you're free to do whatever you wish with 100+ Mil SP characters, it seems reasonable to assume they're not 'meant' to be used mainly for cheap frigate roams. If you want to happily whelp some frigs you can always roll an RvB alt or two.

The same 'content' didn't suffer before 2012 when i was living in 0.0 and participated in some wars.... And yes, i was always using set of +4 implants, even when i was flying on CTA.

This 'content' started to suffer when YOU won the null-sec. And then suddenly space 'doesn't worth the effort', 'clone are too much', etc....

Scenario A:

100 Mil SP guy vs. 10 Mil SP guy in an AF 1v1. The first guy is putting 30 Mil ISK on the line for the ship+fittings, plus 20 Mil ISK for the pod (if it's empty). The second guy is putting just 30 Mil ISK on the line.

Makes perfect sense to me, since the 100 Mil SP guy will have several +5% advantages over the younger guy, in dmg, range, speed, tank, etc.


Scenario B:

100 Mil SP guy vs. 20 Mil SP guy in a T1 frig 1v1. First guy 5 Mil + 20 Mil, second guy just 5 Mil + maybe 1 Mil or so for the pod.

The older guy will probably have much less advantage over the younger one, because it the younger one is a bit specialized he could easily have maxed out (or almost maxed out) all skills relevant to a T1 frig. So maybe the 100 Mil SP dude is risking a bit too much for little or no gain but still, why would you use a 100 Mil SP character to fly T1 frigates in nullsec or wormholes? If it happens occasionally, there's no big issue. If you're flying cheap ships with a high-SP character in 'bubble-space' every day, yes I think you should roll a specialized T1 frigate alt.


Why should CCP eliminate med clone costs to cater for people wanting to whelp T1 frigs with high-SP characters, when those same med clone costs make perfect sense (higher SP --> higher stats --> higher total costs of what you're flying) in just about any other situation?

"Use an alt" is thrown around far too often in this game. Some players are invested in the their main character, I'm no RPer, but I don't really care about some throwaway character, I want to pvp on this character. I have an alt which does a few menial tasks but I wouldn't pvp on as I have no attachment to it.

My favorite pastime above all else is frigate/destroyer pvp. It would seem that as such, there is an apex point at which the benefit of further training is essentially outweighed by the cost of med clones (if I wish to enjoy my pastime in null or Wspace) so I should just stop training when I reach it. In may case I would say that point would be fairly close.

I mentioned before I was considering a long subscription to take advantage of the infinite skill queue despite the fact I don't play sometimes for months on end. That seems redundant now I have realised what these extra SPs will cost me in the long run. I will sub for the time I am playing only and during that time I guess I will just train Characters to sell for isk while continuing to pvp on my main. It's not the worst solution I suppose, I'm just not sure why CCP would want to steer me towards paying less subs and stopping training my character *shrug*

Unfortunately CCP can't take into account every exception (such as yours) when they design features such as med clone costs that affect 100% of EVE's population.

Generally speaking, higher SP means better combat stats and I think it only makes sense that that should come with a non-zero price (or risk).

You're basically saying that you plan on rarely using any skill that doesn't affect frig/dessy combat, yet for some reason you would be willing to pay a sub for several months just to train skills you probably won't use.


It's all good but why should med clones be free just to cater to your 'unconventional' skill training habits? People usually train skills to use them...