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Welcome to 'Blue Doughnut' land guys.

As we have seen in the past couple of weeks all the large Alliances have set about the predicted re-positioning exercise leaving large areas of EVE unclaimed and unwanted by anyone but a few ratters, Way to go CCP.

Not the slightest bit bothered by the force projection nerf, long overdue, But think back, it only became possible because of CCP's crappy mechanics in the first place so in the 'VIEW OF MOST' note the lack of Alliance or Corporation attachment there. reducing the capabilities of Capital Combat ships to move easily around EVE is a good thing, lot of pissed off players mind you who now find that months of training is for nothing.

Rorquals, WTF are you guys smoking, apart from a few players that use them in ways they were never designed for, again CCP's crappy foresight, it makes no difference if they have 20% or a 1000% Drone bonus, Combat is not an option, bought for mining operations they spend almost 100% of there time in a PoS and rarely move if ever and those that do for PoS installations have little or no need for any Drone bonus, hostiles in system, they wait them out or get fleet coverage for the duration, What hurts here is the very idea that anyone would want to use this ship in Combat at all or even put it at risk.

Logistics ships, = Jump Freighters, Sorry CCP, if you believe that anyone is going to start moving these via gates just because you think it's a good idea to allow the chance of some desperate PvP player to get at them you really don't have much of a grasp on how risk averse these pilots really are, the results of this Nerf are not going to be what you expect, Players will of course adjust, right up until the point they realize how much of a problem this is going to be then simply stop using them, or rather stop using those accounts, we have guys already selling them now while they can still move them out.

Nerfing logistics transport in anyway flies directly in the face of your stated aims of expanding Null Sec usage, logistics is what makes it possible, logistics is what makes it practical, take that away and you will not get what you either want or expect.

Greyscale- not that you're actually still looking at this, but consider the below:

What is the point of a 5ly max range on a rorq (4 minute wait between jumps) yet a cyno lasts for 10 minutes? That means unless the rorq has multiple cyno pilots every 5 ly, the rorq is still going to have to sit and wait at least 10 minutes to move- which would be roughly the same if it had a 10ly max range. This combination is very poorly thought out and will only hurt and frustrate the playerbase that use Rorqs. Especially considering you're keeping a hardly used feature on the Rorq in the place of the feature that most Rorq users want.

Welcome to Generic OnlineTMsoon - where all the ships classes jump range is the same no matter the size.

i dont mind limiting the titan and supercarrier jump range but making all of them uniform ?

LOL!! Everyone using their cap ships before the nerf hits.....

With less than a year into this game I may be bringing a novice if not novel viewpoint. I just skilled into the Rorq with one of my toons and have a fair way to go to the now coveted JDC Level 5 skill.

I did not see this mentioned earlier in the thread. It seems to me if you Nerf the benefit of a skill you should also Nerf the requirements to get that skill. In this case the time it takes to get the skill should be nerfed commensurate to the amount of benefit lost.

Before you veterans say "Hey wait a minute, why should the new guy get it easier?" Those whom have achieved any JDC skill levels would rightfully be due an SP refund to be used wherever they wish if any reduction in skill time is actually made.

You may say "We did not really nerf the JF" Ok, reduce the skill time proportional to the total loss of jump range benefit across all capitals then.

Omniblivion seems to be the most vocal about the Rorq changes he and others make what seem to be salient points about the jump range change. Most of them seem to favor loosing Drones in favor of keeping range. This takes the previously mentioned "Battle Rorqual" off the table.

Loosing the Drones in favor of range makes the most sense to me as well. Its primary role seems to me to be an Industrial Boosting, Processing and Transport platform.

If stimulating Null activity improving the Null Sec economy is part of the goal of Phoebe, Nerfing JDC and Jump range on the Rorq seems counterproductive. Since the design of EvE has ore presence determined in part by system security level there will continue to be a need to transport ore and minerals across significant ranges. It seems to be part of the larger economy. Trading what I have over here for what you have over there. Maybe I missed something here, but wasn't the Rorqual designed not only to boost, gather, compress and transport ore but to be able to move the entire mining operation in one swift move as well?

I am hoping to use my future Rorq to actually run mining operations with, not to wind up serving it up as a 2.5 Billion isk kill mail to a gate camp.

another boost for Black opps and rest nerfed.
good bye eve.
5 accounts disabled. see you in a year time.

fatigue for JB is a headshot for reshipping, reach fleet for a later login, come back in staging for logoff ... i a hedshot for every casual player and not hardcore player...

Update on the Rorqual metrics front, now that I've found time to poke at it: it looks like it's definitely being used as a mining support ship substantially more than it is as a PvP ship (somewhat unsurprisingly). I'm not sure what (if anything) we will do in the short term; the ship's clearly in a wonky state, but we don't have the balance bandwidth to look at it right now.

... and this is why you should have just given it the range and fatigue bonus at the start.

Thank you for looking into it.

However.

I don't think anyone was ever advocating that the Rorqual is/was or should be used as a PVP ship.

We were advocating that the Rorqual is the best ship for doing anything to do with POS fuelling/dropping/tearing down. In some cases these things are done in potentially hostile environments, which is why a ship with a full slot layout is better than a JF. Doing this now has become a bigger pain in the ass due to the reduced range, which your reasoning for reducing to 5ly not 10 like JF's, was the drone bonus.

The folks who WANT to have a rorqual in a belt were the ones advocating keeping the drone bonus. On the condition that other steps be taken to make it more viable in the belt.

I'm curious what metrics you looked at. Because to me the big question is, what percentage of Rorquals out there have mining links or compression modules fitted? I can tell you my highs are neuts, smarbombs and a cyno, all of which I hopefully don't have to use and I've also never used the ship in any sort of mining support role.

So what you are left with is one group who uses the ship for mining support, largely hiding within a POS and another group who uses them as an alternative to a JF for hauling or hauling in situations where a JF is an unnecessary risk.

The group who keeps their rorquals hiding in a pos, want to keep the drone bonus, even though they spend all their time in a POS. The group that does hauling, who are arguably at more risk, say screw the drone bonus we would rather have the range and we realistically are not going to be in combat anyways, otherwise something has gone wrong and what we really will be doing is trying to escape.

While I think most people understand limited resources, the justification of reduced jump range in favour of a drone bonus that nobody actually uses and won't use without other significant changes, doesn't make any sense.