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[Dev Blog] Phoebe Travel Change Update

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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#121 - 2014-10-31 12:11:26 UTC
LTC Vuvovich wrote:
Personally speaking, I think the whole lot of peoples at CCP have lost their ever-loving minds. It has become increasing apparent to me with each and every major upgrade, that CCP's idea of improving game play has become more and more like turning our little 'sandbox' into a box full of quicksand.

Lets forget already how LONG it takes to move around EVE as it is before the Phoebe release.... oh and YES... I wanna move my capital ships through any number of star gates packed to the gills with PVP'ers, aggros, and anyone else willing to lay in wait to blow them up.

If you read and believe everything in these DEV blogs regarding game improvements, you are liable to miss the underlying reason for most the changes that come down the pike. If you look a little deeper, beneath all the rhetoric... it may surprise you to learn that the reason most of this stuff happens is to maximize the carnage carried out in this game. My Dad always told me... if you don't understand something... just follow the money, and in this game... that money is invariably translated into the game's economy.

So it stands to reason following this train of thought, that the real purpose behind dragging us ALL through the quagmire has everything to do with reducing the current flow of building wealth in this game or to create just enough 'cause and effect' for reducing what must astronomical amounts stockpiled material goods and inventory which has been building up ever since the 'big bang theory'. As I said before... Capital ships and star gates equal complete and utter destruction for anyone silly enough to attempt it... as opposed to waiting forever to make repeated jumps from here to there. Hmm some choice eh? Seems to me we are being told to like it or lump it.

To some of you, this may all seem like wild conjecture... and maybe it is... but if it is true... then don't you think there is an easier way to achieve maximum carnage? Well of course there is and here it is. GET RID OF CLOAKING SHIPS. Think about that... oh yeah... you can run, but you cannot hide.


Wow, I didn't expect that plot twist at the end. You managed to sneak a rant about AFK cloaking into a complaint about how your poor renter's empire will have trouble getting loot from deep BFE to Jita.

Suck it up cupcake - the game needs capital travel to be nerfed.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#122 - 2014-10-31 13:56:51 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Soldarius wrote:
Ok so specific case clarification: My alt in her Blockade Runner (90% reduction to effective jump distance fatigue) uses a Blops covert portal (50% reduction). Is the effective fatigue distance reduced by 50%, 90%, or both (50%*90% = 95% reduction)?


As per the line about covert portals in the blog, the covert portal bonus multiplies with other bonuses. So, 95% reduction in that case, purely because it keeps the math clean.


Thank you for the clarification. Had a feeling that would be the case. But wanted to be sure.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Fonac
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2014-10-31 16:20:18 UTC
What became of the alleged cap, of fatique?
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#124 - 2014-10-31 17:01:39 UTC  |  Edited by: xttz
Fonac wrote:
What became of the alleged cap, of fatique?


This is allegedly mentioned in the alleged dev blog
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#125 - 2014-10-31 17:03:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Primary This Rifter
Edit: Nevermind, I see it now.
Alexis Nightwish
#126 - 2014-10-31 17:20:11 UTC
Came hoping that jump fatigue had been replaced with something that still slowed jump travel way down, but didn't punish players for using ships they'd spent months training for.

Left disappointed.

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Colonel Midnight
blingdenstone
#127 - 2014-10-31 17:34:57 UTC
Skills:
Removed the 24 hour limit for skill training queues
Frigate Construction has been renamed to Advanced Small Ship Construction
Cruiser Construction has been renamed to Advanced Medium Ship Construction
Battleship Construction has been renamed to Advanced Large Ship Construction
Industrial Construction has been renamed to Advanced Industrial Ship Construction
Reverse Engineering has been renamed to Sleeper Encryption Methods
The Bomb Deployment skill now decreases the reactivation delay of Bomb Launchers by 10% per level instead of 5%.

Does this mean things will go back to what they used to be? When i could Q up 10-15 skills and train for a month without logging in at all?
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#128 - 2014-10-31 18:31:21 UTC
It means you're in the wrong thread.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#129 - 2014-10-31 18:46:51 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Nova Fox wrote:
So...

1. Jump Ship
2. Clone Exits Ship
3. Fresh Clone Enters Ship
4. Jump Ship
5. Exited Clone Body Jumps Home
6. Rinse Repeat Until destination.


The actual logistics of doing this for a reasonable range of target systems are sufficiently involved that we do not expect it to happen in practice.

Could still turn out to be wrong, of course, but we'll see how it shakes out :)

You are all taking worst case examples. Those will not be done as they are just too difficult. What can be done:

Alt takes the ship through a few gates, then a jump, then a few gates, then a jump. All of this is done in secured space.
Main gets in and finishes the trip.

This increases the convenient travel distance from around 15 LY to maybe 30. Sure, it's not all the way across the map, but its much farther than CCP's intent. It greatly reduces the number of ship caches needed to project power to any part of the game.

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Heavy Met4l Queen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#130 - 2014-10-31 18:57:59 UTC
So when can we expect astroglide to come to eve? We're going to need lots of it when moving titans through gates.

In the game of conquest, who cares about the pawns if the king yet reigns?
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#131 - 2014-10-31 21:12:44 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I'm going to go and have another look at the stats tomorrow and see where they stand. We're not in a position to throw the necessary resources behind a Rorqual rework right now, unfortunately (it will likely need fairly substantial code support in addition to balance resources).


How do the stats stand? Any that you can share with us? If the lot of us are wrong and drone usage is off the charts, it would be helpful to have some data to back that other than an abysmal Zkill log.
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#132 - 2014-10-31 21:24:05 UTC
kiu Nakamura wrote:

4) Shameless plug
Checkout http://fatigue.501gu.de it should be matching the latest devblog.


Very nifty little tool! Can you change "something else" label to "capitals" so it's more obvious that's where to go for capitals? :)

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

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Biomass MeNOW
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2014-11-01 00:25:46 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Well I'm still not sure about the high-sec caps thing but hope you guys announce it well in advance so I can invite all pilots to pop the Veldnaught before the changes are introduced.

/c


Considering how long you've been in the game and how much you've done for the playerbase CCP should create a unique skin for that dread, give it a mining bonus on 8 strip miners, and bind it to you (unsellable).
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#134 - 2014-11-01 00:34:28 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I'm going to go and have another look at the stats tomorrow and see where they stand. We're not in a position to throw the necessary resources behind a Rorqual rework right now, unfortunately (it will likely need fairly substantial code support in addition to balance resources).


How do the stats stand? Any that you can share with us? If the lot of us are wrong and drone usage is off the charts, it would be helpful to have some data to back that other than an abysmal Zkill log.



I doubt we hear one more peep from him.. he's going to remain silent and phoebe is going to roll on out and the stuff is going to stay in place.. look at his track history.. he does this over and over again.. especially on the weekends.. nothing is changing...

its greyskull we're talking about here... I think we'd have a roll of dice that fozzie could make a change that fast.. but greyskull.. .no fawks given what so ever.. its here... NO TURNING BACK...
Jessica Danikov
Network Danikov
#135 - 2014-11-01 02:34:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessica Danikov
Two things I want to address:

Firstly, skills. Ignoring all the skills involved in getting into Capital hulls themselves, jump drives have 3 skills that take 4 months to train to the max. Everyone trained them to high levels despite the high modifiers because force projection was so powerful and everyone wanted to project to the max.

However, now that Jump Drives have been plunged full-force into the dirt, it's harder to justify 4 months of training for such meagre benefits. It's an extra special kick in the teeth to those who're just arriving at the end of a long train, only to see the skills nerfed.

I propose the skills have their multipliers reconsidered (don't look them up, work out what you think is right for the functionality the skills give now and then look at what they actually are). All owners should have the SP difference restored- those who've had the skill for a long time will have reaped the benefits of having it, while those who have it freshly will not be screwed out of a long train.

Point number 2. Fatigue is tuned with capital ships in mind, yet if I jump a frigate through a jump portal, I'm going to gain capital ship levels of fatigue. This seems extremely punitive.

Why not have individual hull fatigue modifiers, generally standardized by hull size, but you might want to do fun things with T2 hulls and of course keep the special values for industrial-type ships and black-ops. Generally, the hull fatigue stat should really be kept in-tune with the warp speed stat to achieve a sensible by-gate speed:by-jump speed + fatgue ratio. Jump capitals is pretty bad as it is, for each ship class as you move down, you're expending more and more fatigue that could be saved by gate travel. The whole point is to negate the effect of jumping to exceed the average 'by-gate' speed, not to nerf jump bridges into utter uselessness.
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#136 - 2014-11-01 04:15:17 UTC
Jessica Danikov wrote:
Two things I want to address:

Firstly, skills. Ignoring all the skills involved in getting into Capital hulls themselves, jump drives have 3 skills that take 4 months to train to the max. Everyone trained them to high levels despite the high modifiers because force projection was so powerful and everyone wanted to project to the max.

However, now that Jump Drives have been plunged full-force into the dirt, it's harder to justify 4 months of training for such meagre benefits. It's an extra special kick in the teeth to those who're just arriving at the end of a long train, only to see the skills nerfed.

I propose the skills have their multipliers reconsidered (don't look them up, work out what you think is right for the functionality the skills give now and then look at what they actually are). All owners should have the SP difference restored- those who've had the skill for a long time will have reaped the benefits of having it, while those who have it freshly will not be screwed out of a long train.

Point number 2. Fatigue is tuned with capital ships in mind, yet if I jump a frigate through a jump portal, I'm going to gain capital ship levels of fatigue. This seems extremely punitive.

Why not have individual hull fatigue modifiers, generally standardized by hull size, but you might want to do fun things with T2 hulls and of course keep the special values for industrial-type ships and black-ops. Generally, the hull fatigue stat should really be kept in-tune with the warp speed stat to achieve a sensible by-gate speed:by-jump speed + fatgue ratio. Jump capitals is pretty bad as it is, for each ship class as you move down, you're expending more and more fatigue that could be saved by gate travel. The whole point is to negate the effect of jumping to exceed the average 'by-gate' speed, not to nerf jump bridges into utter uselessness.

Actually except controlled space, null will become Interceptors online, because of gatecamps. Maybe they did not want you to travel except you want to kill people. Basically this forces all of null into Renter-like life. Except wars ofc. There will be a lot of fun, in the first month. Then?
Some say null needed this capship nerf. To be "dynamic". Nope. It only needs the ability to lock. But mentioning this is some kind of Blasphemy, it seems. You must be blind, slow and defenseless. Fatigued too. It is "dynamic" to play like this. LolLolLol
Beaute Suprenate
Asteroid Farm Unlimited
Goonswarm Federation
#137 - 2014-11-01 04:27:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Beaute Suprenate
Two things to state...
First, this will sell more account and generate more CCP income. If you station a cap pilot at the end of each jump, like a cyno alt, you jump on without penalty. Hard to do but makes sense. Most of the old players are fully cap trained. So CCP fixes it so they all need more cap pilots. If you need more cyno pilots, you need more alts, and thus more accounts. Voila, more income for CCP.

Second, who was complaining about the force projection? The people with all sov. Who's on the council? The people with the most votes, the biggest Alliances. And what did they get? Exactly what they want. A frozen sov. What they have now, they will have forever. This is the day that all big sov freezes. Goons keep what they have, NA keeps what they have, NC keeps what they have, etc. Localized fights over the scraps that are left. No big movement, no big battles, no server TIDI, CCP doesn't have to worry about 2000 users in one system with 100k drones. No more investment in more powerful servers. The major players got exactly what they wanted.

And the sandbox got nerfed.
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#138 - 2014-11-01 04:41:17 UTC
Beaute Suprenate wrote:
Two things to state...
First, this will sell more account and generate more CCP income. If you station a cap pilot at the end of each jump, like a cyno alt, you jump on without penalty. Hard to do but makes sense. Most of the old players are fully cap trained. So CCP fixes it so they all need more cap pilots. If you need more cyno pilots, you need more alts, and thus more accounts. Voila, more income for CCP.

Second, who was complaining about the force projection? The people with all sov. Who's on the council? The people with the most votes, the biggest Alliances. And what did they get? Exactly what they want. A frozen sov. What they have now, they will have forever. This is the day that all big sov freezes. Goons keep what they have, NA keeps what they have, NC keeps what they have, etc. Localized fights over the scraps that are left. No big movement, no big battles, no server TIDI, CCP doesn't have to worry about 2000 users in one system with 100k drones. No more investment in more powerful servers. The major players got exactly what they wanted.

And the sandbox got nerfed.

Voice of reason.

Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#139 - 2014-11-01 05:52:51 UTC
Beaute Suprenate wrote:
Two things to state...
First, this will sell more account and generate more CCP income. If you station a cap pilot at the end of each jump, like a cyno alt, you jump on without penalty. Hard to do but makes sense. Most of the old players are fully cap trained. So CCP fixes it so they all need more cap pilots. If you need more cyno pilots, you need more alts, and thus more accounts. Voila, more income for CCP.

Second, who was complaining about the force projection? The people with all sov. Who's on the council? The people with the most votes, the biggest Alliances. And what did they get? Exactly what they want. A frozen sov. What they have now, they will have forever. This is the day that all big sov freezes. Goons keep what they have, NA keeps what they have, NC keeps what they have, etc. Localized fights over the scraps that are left. No big movement, no big battles, no server TIDI, CCP doesn't have to worry about 2000 users in one system with 100k drones. No more investment in more powerful servers. The major players got exactly what they wanted.

And the sandbox got nerfed.



its bullcrap to have dudes hot drop super's on a friggin miner or a single ratter.. that's why it needed to be shut down.. blame the dudes that did it.. go look at killboards and you'll see the group who's known for it.

2nd part of your comment.. yeah I agree.. so they won.. guess that means no longer supplying ccp with money.. I think we all need to just go after newbies and push them away from the game.. that's a bright idea isn't it?? lol.. you folks act like your plex is funding the game entirely... oh wait.. never mind (shots self in the face)
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#140 - 2014-11-01 06:25:16 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Beaute Suprenate wrote:
Two things to state...
First, this will sell more account and generate more CCP income. If you station a cap pilot at the end of each jump, like a cyno alt, you jump on without penalty. Hard to do but makes sense. Most of the old players are fully cap trained. So CCP fixes it so they all need more cap pilots. If you need more cyno pilots, you need more alts, and thus more accounts. Voila, more income for CCP.

Second, who was complaining about the force projection? The people with all sov. Who's on the council? The people with the most votes, the biggest Alliances. And what did they get? Exactly what they want. A frozen sov. What they have now, they will have forever. This is the day that all big sov freezes. Goons keep what they have, NA keeps what they have, NC keeps what they have, etc. Localized fights over the scraps that are left. No big movement, no big battles, no server TIDI, CCP doesn't have to worry about 2000 users in one system with 100k drones. No more investment in more powerful servers. The major players got exactly what they wanted.

And the sandbox got nerfed.



its bullcrap to have dudes hot drop super's on a friggin miner or a single ratter.. that's why it needed to be shut down.. blame the dudes that did it.. go look at killboards and you'll see the group who's known for it.

...and you think making Null a cage will resolve this? EVERYONE wants to take advantage of toys, no matter how l33t they want to pose, and with minimum risk. You simply cannot solve this.
As i said: all what this game needed is the ability to lock. ....errr, wait. Force people to fight? Blasphemous...LolLolLol