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The end of Corpmate Awoxxing?

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Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#821 - 2014-11-01 16:59:00 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:



At the end of the day it looks like this social experiment is coming to an end. CCP has reached the point where attracting the low hanging pvp crowd is detrimental to the game and there isn't enough new players coming in to mitigate the ones this playstyle drives away willingly...and is happy about it. I can comment on stuff that was never said as well.


This post is the most important one in the thread, as it demonstrates the underlying motivation of some (of course not all) who think this is a good idea.

They never liked what EVE was in the 1st place. They like the space ships, or the futuristic setting or something. But they don't like the sandbox, they don't like tha tother people are free to do as they choose, they don't like that thier are consequences for thier choices (enforced by other people, as in real life). Basically, a game like EVE reminds such people of real life, and they don't play games to be reminded of real life, they play to escape (which us why it's odd they don't choose a themepark feel good game).

That's why the new space games can' come fast enough, my (probably unrealistic) hope was that these hater types could find a game they actually like and stop crapping up EVE with thier, well, crap. But deep down I know that will never happen. The insidious nature of carebearism means that NO game about freedom and responsibilty can exist, even if no one is forced to play it and their are dozens of carebearist alternative.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#822 - 2014-11-01 17:27:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Thanatos Marathon
Is AWOXing needed to keep EVE a gritty, harsh, devastating game in Hisec? I tend to think not and that Suicide Ganking, bumping, corp theft, and war decs can probably do the job just fine.

I could be wrong, and perhaps removing the mechanic will lead to no improved player retention and EVE will become social club online where nothing gets blown up in highsec, but I doubt it.

In addition to the AWOXing mechanics they should probably turn off dueling by default or block it in newb zones. When I tried to get my wife to try out eve she got duel spammed in a newb system and didn't even know what it was or that it was a reportable offence.

JUSTK is recruiting
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
#823 - 2014-11-01 17:35:09 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

This post is the most important one in the thread, as it demonstrates the underlying motivation of some (of course not all) who think this is a good idea.

They never liked what EVE was in the 1st place. They like the space ships, or the futuristic setting or something. But they don't like the sandbox, they don't like tha tother people are free to do as they choose, they don't like that thier are consequences for thier choices (enforced by other people, as in real life). Basically, a game like EVE reminds such people of real life, and they don't play games to be reminded of real life, they play to escape (which us why it's odd they don't choose a themepark feel good game).

That's why the new space games can' come fast enough, my (probably unrealistic) hope was that these hater types could find a game they actually like and stop crapping up EVE with thier, well, crap. But deep down I know that will never happen. The insidious nature of carebearism means that NO game about freedom and responsibilty can exist, even if no one is forced to play it and their are dozens of carebearist alternative.


Without joking, in the Elite Dangerous forums, some people began to whine against the ebil pvpers because the beta 3 included npc and player interceptions. They just forgot that the NPCs are the ones that intercept the most in ED ShockedLolRoll
Different game, same victims. They certainly couldn't fit in our old computing time when most of the games just spanked our asses without even saying thanks Lol
Anslo
Scope Works
#824 - 2014-11-01 17:42:44 UTC
Sol Project wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
This thread shows clearly that people preying on noobs are quite a large and noisy collective...
Posts like yours show that people who do not understand what this is about are quite a large and noisy collective. They also can't see beyond their selective awareness and don't care about anything except their own fake and shallow standards.

I bet you have absolutely NO experience in the whole matter at all and just talk from hearsay. I bet you haven't been into at least five of these "new player friendly" corps who are more harming than anything.

You do not do PvP. I know this from you. Yet, instead of accepting that you lack any actual knowledge or experience about what's going on, you think you can make such a statement that only shows that you have absolutely *no* insight on the matter or what this is actually about.

You just parrot the same crap all the other clueless haters parrot, who do not have any actual insight into what's happening.


YOUR ATTITUDE is one big reason why people love to shoot into your pretty face.

I thought you were going to quit eve, not soap box more.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#825 - 2014-11-01 18:04:43 UTC
Princess Scarlett wrote:
Save one person from AWOX - save the world
Oscar Schindler



"New Player Experience is the last refuge of a scoundrel"- Samuel Johnson

There's a number of quotes you can turn either way. Let's not bring IRL dramatic events down to the level of internet entertainment please.

"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe
Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#826 - 2014-11-01 18:08:04 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:


So where do all the people whose main argument against this change find the ground to stand on . . . that by shifting a rule that made little sense (It is OK to go Postal if you are in a post office and work there) we are somehow moving away from what the game IS. It is like they are the apostles of a religion within the game but I cannot seem to find their holy book or church.



Yet another attempt to stygmatise people supporting awox. This time as religious fanatics.

Let me point you to your holy books then - Gevlon Goblin's and Riperd Teg''s blogs. Enjoy the company.

"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe
Josef Djugashvilis
#827 - 2014-11-01 18:27:05 UTC
This thread has descended to the point that it has just become a rant between two opposing views.

See post 877 for example.

This is not a signature.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#828 - 2014-11-01 18:43:12 UTC
Still reading, still collecting but not a lot of new in the past few pages.

Marsha, I liked the story but aside from the original free for all most of that could be done without awox possible. Only the original shooting which was a mistake remains.

I have agreed that the loss of intracorp free for alls is something that needs addressing and hope we can in the near future

aside from that? Nope, still think the removal of awox or the arrival of concord or however you want to frame it, is a good thing.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#829 - 2014-11-01 18:43:41 UTC
some of my best memories in eve are from shooting (and being shot by) corpmates, and never was it awoxing. I just wonder if the dualing system has become anymore robust since it launched? how does it handle 2v2s, 3v3s, and FFA fights? IDLE had a hangar full of t1 frigs and t1 fittings solely for the purpose of blowing each other up.

also I'd say this interferes with some of RvBs activities

at the same time I completely agree with that one line about if it gets more people to join corps, it could very well be a positive change.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Good Posting Reloaded
My Real Mind
#830 - 2014-11-01 19:03:19 UTC
All those nice stories... will be lost in time, like high sec tears in rain. Time to move to another sec... where concord won't spawn when you shoot a corpmate.

NelsonHaHa.jpg
Prince Kobol
#831 - 2014-11-01 19:24:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Mike Azariah wrote:
Still reading, still collecting but not a lot of new in the past few pages.

Marsha, I liked the story but aside from the original free for all most of that could be done without awox possible. Only the original shooting which was a mistake remains.

I have agreed that the loss of intracorp free for alls is something that needs addressing and hope we can in the near future

aside from that? Nope, still think the removal of awox or the arrival of concord or however you want to frame it, is a good thing.

m


So why not remove War Dec's then?

I am sure War Dec's cause a lot more people to stay in NPC Corps and lose more new players then axowing does.

I have never heard of a Corp to fold because of an axower where as according to many people War dec's have and continue to do so.

You can not claim that removing the ability to shoot corp mates without concord intervention will help retain newer players and encourage more people to leave the safety of NPC Corps without admitting that removing war decs would have a much great impact on these two things.
Good Posting Reloaded
My Real Mind
#832 - 2014-11-01 19:42:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Good Posting Reloaded
Prince Kobol wrote:
So why not remove War Dec's then?


That would be so drastic but why not give them a real meaning. I'm sure ccp has something in mind and we all will rejoice the day they announce the changes.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#833 - 2014-11-01 19:49:16 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Mike Azariah wrote:
Still reading, still collecting but not a lot of new in the past few pages.

Marsha, I liked the story but aside from the original free for all most of that could be done without awox possible. Only the original shooting which was a mistake remains.

I have agreed that the loss of intracorp free for alls is something that needs addressing and hope we can in the near future

aside from that? Nope, still think the removal of awox or the arrival of concord or however you want to frame it, is a good thing.

m


Or we could come up with an idea that doesn't remove content but does help new players like enhancing NPE, adding flags, and using existent features like kill rights to solve the problem.

Disguising everything anti-PPP as beneficial to new players is disingenuous.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#834 - 2014-11-01 19:54:40 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Prince Kobol wrote:


So why not remove War Dec's then?

I am sure War Dec's cause a lot more people to stay in NPC Corps and lose more new players then axowing does.

I have never heard of a Corp to fold because of an axower where as according to many people War dec's have and continue to do so.

Don't worry, that's phase two. Phase three is the introduction of concord to low and null, whence war decs will be the only way of fighting a sov war thus reintorducing and fixing war decs simultaneously.

The empires have had enough of your capsuleer bullshit.
Brochan McLeod
Frigateer
#835 - 2014-11-01 20:30:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Brochan McLeod
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:


So why not remove War Dec's then?

I am sure War Dec's cause a lot more people to stay in NPC Corps and lose more new players then axowing does.

I have never heard of a Corp to fold because of an axower where as according to many people War dec's have and continue to do so.

Don't worry, that's phase two. Phase three is the introduction of concord to low and null, whence war decs will be the only way of fighting a sov war thus reintorducing and fixing war decs simultaneously.

The empires have had enough of your capsuleer bullshit.


Peace at last... lol P

EDIT: Note to self: Buy some Knitting & Crochet skills in Jita

Even the nicest person's patience has a limit!
Ribor
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#836 - 2014-11-01 20:32:59 UTC
What the **** is high-sec?
Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#837 - 2014-11-01 20:37:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Sol Project
The next generation of players will learn that in highsec, there is no non-consensual combat allowed anymore, unless you give consent by deliberately flagging yourself as a FreeForAll.

They will learn that every aggression needs CONCORD to have prior knowledge about it, else they will strike.

The green button being defaulted to green supports the idea of combat in highsec being a thing that is not liked to be seen. More people will come up with the stupidity of living in pvp zones, aka "If you wanna pvp go to low or null", showing ignorance of what pvp means and that there are no zones to being with. Yet, at least.

No new player will be able to just try and find out if it's fun or profitable to shoot the ass of his corpmate for money, unless he can lure him into a duel in something expensive, which adds a huge amount of complexity to it.

Now people will tell me that wardecs and suicide ganking are non-consensual combat and still there ... but I don't actually agree. If there is no consent with CONCORD, then the potential for aggression will always be crippled. It's crippled already even WITH consent.

Consent, not from the player... but from the system. It still looks like a game that has non-consensual combat everywhere... but if asking CONCORD for allowance isn't "asking for consent" then I hope I just have issues with the language barrier.......

I doubt that CCP doesn't realise the differences in perception.



Well played, CCP.........

Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#838 - 2014-11-01 20:42:44 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
Still reading, still collecting but not a lot of new in the past few pages.

Marsha, I liked the story but aside from the original free for all most of that could be done without awox possible. Only the original shooting which was a mistake remains.

I have agreed that the loss of intracorp free for alls is something that needs addressing and hope we can in the near future

aside from that? Nope, still think the removal of awox or the arrival of concord or however you want to frame it, is a good thing.

m


So why not remove War Dec's then?

I am sure War Dec's cause a lot more people to stay in NPC Corps and lose more new players then axowing does.

I have never heard of a Corp to fold because of an axower where as according to many people War dec's have and continue to do so.

You can not claim that removing the ability to shoot corp mates without concord intervention will help retain newer players and encourage more people to leave the safety of NPC Corps without admitting that removing war decs would have a much great impact on these two things.

Lets be honest. CCP with the aid of carebear pansies in the CSM are turning hisec into a consensual-only Disneyland for WoW-rejects, in the pursuit of more subs, with non-consensual gameplay mechanics that used to be EvE's defining aspect sacrificed on said altar.

They move slowly, iteratively, with continual paper cuts like the one Mike is trying to defend now, on the basis of 'player retention', when more compelling tutorials might simply be the better answer, rather than actual mechanics nerf to content creation and non-consensual play.

Give them time though, just like Ripard Teg before him, this next generation of CSM in the form of Mike will do their paper-cut damage to the sandbox, and then one day hand the baton to the next goddamned carebear to trained-seal handclap when CCP decides to make wardecs consensual only, or perhaps years from now when no more hisec vet content creators remain, trot out yet again the 'we need to make ganking harder/more expensive/impossible' because it is costing us subs...

Sounds reasonable right? We all want MOAR SUBS right?

All of this has happened before, it will happen again.

The CSM is an abomination, rendered so by people like Mike, who do not serve there role as protectors of the sandbox, but who instead give CCP the cover they seek to slit their own throats, and destroy what content creators hold dear.

I am sick of it.

F

Would you like to know more?
Christus Estnatus Hemanseh
Doomheim
#839 - 2014-11-01 20:49:21 UTC
Sol Project wrote:
The next generation of players will learn that in highsec, there is no non-consensual combat allowed anymore, unless you give consent by deliberately flagging yourself as a FreeForAll.

They will learn that every aggression needs CONCORD to have prior knowledge about it, else they will strike.

The green button being defaulted to green supports the idea of combat in highsec being a thing that is not liked to be seen. More people will come up with the stupidity of living in pvp zones, aka "If you wanna pvp go to low or null", showing ignorance of what pvp means and that there are no zones to being with. Yet, at least.

No new player will be able to just try and find out if it's fun or profitable to shoot the ass of his corpmate for money, unless he can lure him into a duel in something expensive, which adds a huge amount of complexity to it.

Now people will tell me that wardecs and suicide ganking are non-consensual combat and still there ... but I don't actually agree. If there is no consent with CONCORD, then the potential for aggression will always be crippled. It's crippled already even WITH consent.

Consent, not from the player... but from the system. It still looks like a game that has non-consensual combat everywhere... but if asking CONCORD for allowance isn't "asking for consent" then I hope I just have issues with the language barrier.......

I doubt that CCP doesn't realise the differences in perception.



Well played, CCP.........


CONCORD is a part of the risk. Please, do not take any risk not worthy of the reward.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#840 - 2014-11-01 20:51:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Syn Shi
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
Still reading, still collecting but not a lot of new in the past few pages.

Marsha, I liked the story but aside from the original free for all most of that could be done without awox possible. Only the original shooting which was a mistake remains.

I have agreed that the loss of intracorp free for alls is something that needs addressing and hope we can in the near future

aside from that? Nope, still think the removal of awox or the arrival of concord or however you want to frame it, is a good thing.

m


So why not remove War Dec's then?

I am sure War Dec's cause a lot more people to stay in NPC Corps and lose more new players then axowing does.

I have never heard of a Corp to fold because of an axower where as according to many people War dec's have and continue to do so.

You can not claim that removing the ability to shoot corp mates without concord intervention will help retain newer players and encourage more people to leave the safety of NPC Corps without admitting that removing war decs would have a much great impact on these two things.

Lets be honest. CCP with the aid of carebear pansies in the CSM are turning hisec into a consensual-only Disneyland for WoW-rejects, in the pursuit of more subs, with non-consensual gameplay mechanics that used to be EvE's defining aspect sacrificed on said altar.

They move slowly, iteratively, with continual paper cuts like the one Mike is trying to defend now, on the basis of 'player retention', when more compelling tutorials might simply be the better answer, rather than actual mechanics nerf to content creation and non-consensual play.

Give them time though, just like Ripard Teg before him, this next generation of CSM in the form of Mike will do their paper-cut damage to the sandbox, and then one day hand the baton to the next goddamned carebear to trained-seal handclap when CCP decides to make wardecs consensual only, or perhaps years from now when no more hisec vet content creators remain, trot out yet again the 'we need to make ganking harder/more expensive/impossible' because it is costing us subs...

Sounds reasonable right? We all want MOAR SUBS right?

All of this has happened before, it will happen again.

The CSM is an abomination, rendered so by people like Mike, who do not serve there role as protectors of the sandbox, but who instead give CCP the cover they seek to slit their own throats, and destroy what content creators hold dear.

I am sick of it.

F



A CSM did represent you and say that awox should be left as is or maybe there is a better solution. More than one actually. But you wouldn't know that because you haven't read the CSM minutes and are just firing off at anyone out of ignorance.

Just like everyone else who keeps saying it is going to be removed when the only thing that was said was...maybe concord should show up.