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The end of Corpmate Awoxxing?

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John E Normus
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#321 - 2014-10-30 21:54:45 UTC
Sion Kumitomo wrote:
The continued misuse of the word 'awox' in this thread has me in quite a state. Check your history, almost all of you are wrong.

This change would literally only effect hisec. Seriously. That's it. Want to shoot your mates in low/null/wh? Go nuts. There is otherwise no impact anywhere else with this.

That is, unless your entire gameplay style is centered on abusing people who don't understand counterintuitive gameplay mechanics in EVE's 'safest' systems, in which case I'm sure this will impact you, and I'm so very sorry you're unable to take on real challenges and lack the imagination to think of other ways to hurt people. Basically, you're dumb if you think that anyone who knows what real risk means is going to hop on some terrible hyberbolic bandwagon defending your right to beat up the proverbial new kid and take their lunch money.

Or to put it another way, HTFU yourselves you bunch of whiners.



A goon typed this.

hahahahahahahaha

Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#322 - 2014-10-30 21:54:52 UTC
Now the boring Highsec death end PvE and miner corp can finally recruit and trap new players without the fear of destruction. Well done CCP! As many have said before it will have no effect on any other type of corp.

Evil RatKid
Dave Stark
#323 - 2014-10-30 21:56:41 UTC
on the bright side, now i can just invite a bunch of new players to a corp tell them mining is great, and bore them in to quitting while making isk from their hard work by purchasing their ore at prices a fraction of that of jita prices.

and i won't even have to bother making a second corp to protect my orca pilot any more.

silver linings and all that.
Sion Kumitomo
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#324 - 2014-10-30 21:58:04 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Sion Kumitomo wrote:
That is, unless your entire gameplay style is centered on abusing people who don't understand counterintuitive gameplay mechanics in EVE's 'safest' systems,


so when's the ETA on banning scams?
when's the ETA on banning mission baiting?

you are banning those too, i assume, since they're also centered on the same things.


If you straw man any harder you might soon be joined by a tin man and a cowardly lion.

On twitter @siggonK
Dave Stark
#325 - 2014-10-30 21:58:41 UTC
Sion Kumitomo wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Sion Kumitomo wrote:
That is, unless your entire gameplay style is centered on abusing people who don't understand counterintuitive gameplay mechanics in EVE's 'safest' systems,


so when's the ETA on banning scams?
when's the ETA on banning mission baiting?

you are banning those too, i assume, since they're also centered on the same things.


If you straw man any harder you might soon be joined by a tin man and a cowardly lion.


so then that's not the reason for the change? if so, why bother mentioning it. it's entirely off topic.
Dave Leadland
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#326 - 2014-10-30 22:01:54 UTC
CCP should disband whole CMS and stop doing that whole CMS. I don't doubt that your intentions are good, but do not take away feature from EVE what has been there from beginning of EVE. Stop pampering!
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#327 - 2014-10-30 22:03:12 UTC
Oh snap. This thread done.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#328 - 2014-10-30 22:04:05 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


if you want to stop people awoxing with such impunity, fix the broken neutral logi mechanics.

Sure, that'd be great. Won't fix the problem of new players finding a home though.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#329 - 2014-10-30 22:05:24 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
so what you're saying is, people should be protected from something even if they put 0 effort in to protecting themselves from it? really?


No, I'm saying that "just use ECM!" is flip for a number of reasons related to PVE being stale and half-assed.

This takes out one relatively easy kind of nonconsensual PVP in one area of space in response to what CCP believes is a less-than-ideal insularity that is keeping new players out of corps, and therefore out of the #1 most effective retention mechanism that CCP knows about. Whether it works, and how well, are TBD, but given EVE's abysmal retention rate, and the rate that many people who do upgrade from trial do so to get into a pure PVE track before they eventually lose interest and leave, I can't blame them for trying.

The day CCP starts talking about prohibiting villainous behavior in the EULA, you can rage about theme parks. This is just CCP trying to fix a brilliant but broken game, which means changing things that have been left alone for years and years, which means knocking some people out of their long-adopted play styles. But it's not like they're making it impossible to be the bad guy in high security space. It's not even as if every change will make it harder to be the bad guy.

CCP Seagull said she wanted EVE to be more about people outwitting people, and less about people taking advantage of mechanics. So, as Kaarous Aldurald has repeatedly said, you can still trick unwitting people into danger and kill them, just not in this one specific way anymore.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#330 - 2014-10-30 22:06:25 UTC
I guess my question is that given that:

1. Wardeccs and
2. Theft

Still exist in highsec corps, will this actually spur anyone to join one? I know that with those present the change still won't be enough to get me to leave my 1-man corp.

I would think this change needs to be part of a more fundamental adjustment to highsec mechanics to have the desired impact.
Dave Stark
#331 - 2014-10-30 22:08:07 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


if you want to stop people awoxing with such impunity, fix the broken neutral logi mechanics.

Sure, that'd be great. Won't fix the problem of new players finding a home though.


awoxing isn't the issue with new players finding a home anyway.

if player corps weren't **** to begin with, it'd go more of a way to helping new players find homes.
look at high sec corps - since awoxing only affects those corps - what can they offer people? close to nothing. the lack of reason to want to be in a high sec corp is a bigger barrier for players finding a decent one than awoxing ever has, or ever will, be.

player corps need to be able to offer people a reason to join them, removing awoxing doesn't do that. high sec player corps are still going to be ****, and pointless, and largely irrelevant.
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#332 - 2014-10-30 22:10:10 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
My old corp got awoxed loads of times, on account of the fact that we were deeply unpopular...

Despite that, though I think it's a mistake to remove the ability to awox corps.

When I got awoxed it made me so goddam mad, it spured me and my corp mates into action against who we thought was responsible.

In other words it's the unpleasant stuff like corporate heists and awoxing, ganking etc that makes you emotionally invest in your character, your ships and your friends. If we lose awoxing then we lose one more route to emotinal investment.

If eve becomes a game without emotional investment then it is really is dead regardless of subscriber numbers.




Awox will still be possible if the rumor ends up being true.

Only change is now you will have consequences.

And as many have demonstrated,,,,some of the so called pvp'rs and content creators don't want consequences for themselves.



Tell me more about these consequences... I'm still reading the 146 page pdf (which by the way I love).





You are reading the wrong stuffs.

"There seems to be a strong suggestion that you will soon no longer be able to "legally" shoot corpmates, and the implication seems to be that shooting corpmates will be a criminal act in highsec that will be met with CONCORD retribution."


The only ones saying awoxing is going to disappear are the ones who don't like the fact that the only baseless thing that was mentioned was that now Concord would step in.



Which translates into someone not wanting to awox anymore because they will lose their ship as well.





Then it's a sad change. Eve is at it's most beautiful and enticing when she is at her most brutal... If we keep going like this then soon there wont be any risk at all left in highsec and that is not what eve is about.

A concord response is not warranted here. Does this mean that training ops for corps now have to take place in low sec or null and that if I engage my corp-mates whilst training I will lose security status as well as my ship?

If so it's going to break a huge chunk of the game.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Dave Stark
#333 - 2014-10-30 22:11:10 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
My old corp got awoxed loads of times, on account of the fact that we were deeply unpopular...

Despite that, though I think it's a mistake to remove the ability to awox corps.

When I got awoxed it made me so goddam mad, it spured me and my corp mates into action against who we thought was responsible.

In other words it's the unpleasant stuff like corporate heists and awoxing, ganking etc that makes you emotionally invest in your character, your ships and your friends. If we lose awoxing then we lose one more route to emotinal investment.

If eve becomes a game without emotional investment then it is really is dead regardless of subscriber numbers.




Awox will still be possible if the rumor ends up being true.

Only change is now you will have consequences.

And as many have demonstrated,,,,some of the so called pvp'rs and content creators don't want consequences for themselves.



Tell me more about these consequences... I'm still reading the 146 page pdf (which by the way I love).





You are reading the wrong stuffs.

"There seems to be a strong suggestion that you will soon no longer be able to "legally" shoot corpmates, and the implication seems to be that shooting corpmates will be a criminal act in highsec that will be met with CONCORD retribution."


The only ones saying awoxing is going to disappear are the ones who don't like the fact that the only baseless thing that was mentioned was that now Concord would step in.



Which translates into someone not wanting to awox anymore because they will lose their ship as well.





Then it's a sad change. Eve is at it's most beautiful and enticing when she is at her most brutal... If we keep going like this then soon there wont be any risk at all left in highsec and that is not what eve is about.

A concord response is not warranted here. Does this mean that training ops for corps now have to take place in low sec or null and that if I engage my corp-mates whilst training I will lose security status as well as my ship?

If so it's going to break a huge chunk of the game.


i think fozzie wants you to use the dueling mechanic instead.
Sion Kumitomo
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#334 - 2014-10-30 22:12:48 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
Syn Shi wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
My old corp got awoxed loads of times, on account of the fact that we were deeply unpopular...

Despite that, though I think it's a mistake to remove the ability to awox corps.

When I got awoxed it made me so goddam mad, it spured me and my corp mates into action against who we thought was responsible.

In other words it's the unpleasant stuff like corporate heists and awoxing, ganking etc that makes you emotionally invest in your character, your ships and your friends. If we lose awoxing then we lose one more route to emotinal investment.

If eve becomes a game without emotional investment then it is really is dead regardless of subscriber numbers.




Awox will still be possible if the rumor ends up being true.

Only change is now you will have consequences.

And as many have demonstrated,,,,some of the so called pvp'rs and content creators don't want consequences for themselves.



Tell me more about these consequences... I'm still reading the 146 page pdf (which by the way I love).





You are reading the wrong stuffs.

"There seems to be a strong suggestion that you will soon no longer be able to "legally" shoot corpmates, and the implication seems to be that shooting corpmates will be a criminal act in highsec that will be met with CONCORD retribution."


The only ones saying awoxing is going to disappear are the ones who don't like the fact that the only baseless thing that was mentioned was that now Concord would step in.



Which translates into someone not wanting to awox anymore because they will lose their ship as well.





Then it's a sad change. Eve is at it's most beautiful and enticing when she is at her most brutal... If we keep going like this then soon there wont be any risk at all left in highsec and that is not what eve is about.

A concord response is not warranted here. Does this mean that training ops for corps now have to take place in low sec or null and that if I engage my corp-mates whilst training I will lose security status as well as my ship?

If so it's going to break a huge chunk of the game.


Hey look, it's a slippery slope fallacy.

On twitter @siggonK
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#335 - 2014-10-30 22:13:06 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


i think fozzie wants you to use the dueling mechanic instead.


I'd forgotten we had a duelling mechanic or shall we just do our training in the new fangled instances or 'dojos' that have recently made their way on to the test server.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Dave Stark
#336 - 2014-10-30 22:15:18 UTC
Sion Kumitomo wrote:
Hey look, it's a slippery slope fallacy.


how many high sec nerfs do there have to be for it to stop being a fallacy?

cos like, i'm not sure there's much left to nerf.

edit: or at least, there won't be if ccp get their way.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#337 - 2014-10-30 22:17:34 UTC
Sion Kumitomo wrote:
This change would literally only effect hisec. Seriously. That's it. Want to shoot your mates in low/null/wh? Go nuts. There is otherwise no impact anywhere else with this.

You seriously think that increasing the chance that players end up in a risk averse Highsec PvE/miner corp (which by your argument is the winner of this change) instead of a low/null/wh corp (which is not impacted by the change as you say) is a good thing?

It's so obvious how this will backfire.

Evil RatKid
Sion Kumitomo
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#338 - 2014-10-30 22:22:29 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Sion Kumitomo wrote:
Hey look, it's a slippery slope fallacy.


how many high sec nerfs do there have to be for it to stop being a fallacy?

cos like, i'm not sure there's much left to nerf.

edit: or at least, there won't be if ccp get their way.


There's like 16 pages about how this is a hisec buff. Are you sure it's a nerf? Or are we at the point of the discussion where we're just throwing things out and hoping something resonates?

On twitter @siggonK
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#339 - 2014-10-30 22:23:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Syn Shi
Dave Stark wrote:
Sion Kumitomo wrote:
Hey look, it's a slippery slope fallacy.


how many high sec nerfs do there have to be for it to stop being a fallacy?

cos like, i'm not sure there's much left to nerf.

edit: or at least, there won't be if ccp get their way.



You can still awox.

The only change is now you will have to decide are the tears worth the value of my ship.

For you...looks like the answer is you aren't ready to lose your ship.

No tears for you.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#340 - 2014-10-30 22:29:31 UTC
I'm very late to this thread. Obviously I have not been lurking enough on this forum. I have skim read much of the thread and I am a little perturbed by the removal of legitimately shooting corpmates in high sec.

When I first started playing Eve I came into the game with a small group of gamers from another game - A RTCW clan from memory. We set up a little corp in high sec to run missions together to make isk and fund our ventures into low sec.

We tested a range game play styles on each other:

Could a blackbird with multi specs and raven pin down a solo Vagabond.
Could 3 insta locking hurricanes take down inties and coverts ops on gates.
How long can a domi with sentries and a scimitar keep a caracal alive in a level 3 mission when a gank fit thrasher shows up?

Can any of these situations be simulated via the current dueling system?