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EVE turning down a dark and lonely road...

First post
Author
Donavon Irish
The Occupation.
#1 - 2014-10-30 02:39:44 UTC
For years EVE has been the mmo of choice for one reason. Its cruel and harsh nature, its unrelenting fine for stupidity when you do something..stupid.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/CSM9Summer_Minutes_2014.pdf

Read down from page 77, CCP is planning on stopping awoxing as we know it. This will kill EVE, it will become every other MMO out there only difference is it will be in space...wait...Star Trek already did that. Awoxing punishes the lazy and stupid, and very rarely hurt the new player, and if awoxing scares a potential player away from EVE, they wouldn't appreciate the game it truly is. The thing is I don't even do any scamming, awoxing, or ganking in game but I appreciate it for it makes my gameplay much more rewarding and exciting. If I wanted to moderate challenge with little risk/reward I would play some other **** with better graphics. The cruelness of this game makes the game. Anyways rant over I just wanted to see if more people has an opinion and wanted to voice it before CCP dooms the game for us all, I mean if this goes next will be ganking and scamming..

Thoughts?
Brisco County
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-10-30 07:39:13 UTC
wow that is troubling. One of the draws of Eve is that you need to learn to manage your risk. Screening recruits is one of those things.
Sion Kumitomo
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-10-30 15:04:12 UTC
If only there was a part of EVE that CONCORD didn't police.

On twitter @siggonK

Zappity
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-10-30 19:35:18 UTC
About time. NPE is important and awoxing is about as new player unfriendly as it gets.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Lell Scarlatti
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2014-10-30 19:46:09 UTC
I would say go to nullsec, but there's a big blue donut there that kinda stalls the free pvp argument. Awoxing is such a minor concern, I don't know why it really even got on the radar for the nerf hammer.

The justifications that CCP listed for getting rid of Awoxing, are asinine. In 4 years of EVE, I have never seen an awoxer; they're a rare source of storis, more myth than fact. But they make the game interesting (CCP seems determined to eliminate things that make the game interesting).

Eliminating awoxing makes EVE a friendlier place for newbies? I've never felt particularly inclined to join a newbie corp specifically to kill new players, because frankly it's boring.

The only thing that sets EVE apart on the MMO market is the cutthroat, remorseless, high risk game play. Take that away, or blunt it, and we might as well start playing any other theme park MMO. Visually speaking, it goes from Vikings (the show) to Asterix and the Vikings (disney-esque cartoon vikings). IE, a game for adults, to a game for children. I don't like to play children's games.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#6 - 2014-10-30 21:18:59 UTC
Lell Scarlatti wrote:
I would say go to nullsec, but there's a big blue donut there that kinda stalls the free pvp argument. Awoxing is such a minor concern, I don't know why it really even got on the radar for the nerf hammer.



If Awoxing is a minor concern, then why is is 'important' to keep it?


As for why Awoxing is got on the radar, CCP does exit surveys.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Sion Kumitomo
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-10-30 21:29:26 UTC
Lell Scarlatti wrote:
I would say go to nullsec, but there's a big blue donut there that kinda stalls the free pvp argument. Awoxing is such a minor concern, I don't know why it really even got on the radar for the nerf hammer.

The justifications that CCP listed for getting rid of Awoxing, are asinine. In 4 years of EVE, I have never seen an awoxer; they're a rare source of storis, more myth than fact. But they make the game interesting (CCP seems determined to eliminate things that make the game interesting).

Eliminating awoxing makes EVE a friendlier place for newbies? I've never felt particularly inclined to join a newbie corp specifically to kill new players, because frankly it's boring.

The only thing that sets EVE apart on the MMO market is the cutthroat, remorseless, high risk game play. Take that away, or blunt it, and we might as well start playing any other theme park MMO. Visually speaking, it goes from Vikings (the show) to Asterix and the Vikings (disney-esque cartoon vikings). IE, a game for adults, to a game for children. I don't like to play children's games.


Your hysterical hyperbole is showing.

On twitter @siggonK

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#8 - 2014-10-30 21:45:19 UTC
Lell Scarlatti wrote:
The only thing that sets EVE apart on the MMO market is the cutthroat, remorseless, high risk game play..


Er, no. There's the economy, the sheer depth and complexity, and the extent to which the content is player-driven--whether that content is cutthroat or not. Even the ~blue donut~ is a player-created thing whose negotiation involved RL lawyers. Where do you find that in a theme-park game?

The fact that EVE permits that gameplay makes all the other kinds of gameplay meaningful, which is awesome, and which this proposal does nothing to change.

FYI, the original Awox didn't do his work in high sec. He tackled corp member ratters and cyno'd hostile fleets on top of them to kill them, which is kind of hard to do in high sec. So, in the most literal sense, this change has absolutely no effect on Awoxing. It just makes it easier for high sec corps to recruit new players.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Dirk MacGirk
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#9 - 2014-10-30 22:12:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk MacGirk
Lell Scarlatti wrote:
In 4 years of EVE, I have never seen an awoxer; they're a rare source of storis, more myth than fact. But they make the game interesting...

The only thing that sets EVE apart on the MMO market is the cutthroat, remorseless, high risk game play. Take that away, or blunt it, and we might as well start playing any other theme park MMO.


First, they do happen, they just don't tend to be very big. Most awoxing that occurs tends to be some guy just going crazy on a few ships until the intel gets out or he get eliminated. If they were awoxing titans instead of mining barges or ratting ravens, maybe people would care enough to keep them in the game. But by and large, that isn't what is happening. They tend to be pretty gutless in the awox attempts; probably just a lack of patience to wait for something good to come around, or its spur of the moment and lashing out like little boys.

As for the second part, if it was cutthroat, remorseless and high risk game play you were looking for, today's awoxers are really none of those. Almost every single time I've seen an awoxer, it has been in a renter alliance or someplace just as easy to infiltrate on your way to killing a Golem. These aren't the cool kids actually looking for PVP. Again, maybe if they were doing something consequential, someone would really defend their usefulness to the game. but they aren't. They're pretty much trying for coward kills.
Lell Scarlatti
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2014-10-30 22:41:44 UTC
Scale and grandeur of awoxing notwithstanding, the reasoning behind the change is troubling. Being able to shoot corpmates has been a part of the game since inception. Apparently, it hasn't bothered people enough in the last decade to prompt an earlier change, and I can't think of a compelling reason why suddenly its a big enough concern that it needs to be removed.

I don't see how removing the ability to awox will change player retention. CCP is concerned with new player retention, which is fine, but who would waste the time to awox a trial account? As well as the fact that if a new player is going to quit the game over losing any ship that he can fly during a trial period, EVE would not have been an enjoyable game to him anyway. EVE is not a game for the every-man.


Eliminating the ability to shoot corpmates is supposed to promote recruiting new players into existing corps? That wasn't happening already? New player friendly corps themselves are probably a bigger cause of retention issues; low member count, low activity, poor social dynamics, etc. The whole corp membership - player retention issue is more of a social issue than a mechanical one.

Quote:
The fact that EVE permits that gameplay makes all the other kinds of gameplay meaningful, which is awesome


Yes, EVE currently allows that kind of game play. This change is not going to create new game play, it's going to restrict game play options.

Dirk MacGirk
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
#11 - 2014-10-30 23:11:19 UTC
Lell Scarlatti wrote:
Scale and grandeur of awoxing notwithstanding, the reasoning behind the change is troubling. Being able to shoot corpmates has been a part of the game since inception. Apparently, it hasn't bothered people enough in the last decade to prompt an earlier change, and I can't think of a compelling reason why suddenly its a big enough concern that it needs to be removed.

I don't see how removing the ability to awox will change player retention. CCP is concerned with new player retention, which is fine, but who would waste the time to awox a trial account? As well as the fact that if a new player is going to quit the game over losing any ship that he can fly during a trial period, EVE would not have been an enjoyable game to him anyway. EVE is not a game for the every-man.


Eliminating the ability to shoot corpmates is supposed to promote recruiting new players into existing corps? That wasn't happening already? New player friendly corps themselves are probably a bigger cause of retention issues; low member count, low activity, poor social dynamics, etc. The whole corp membership - player retention issue is more of a social issue than a mechanical one.

Quote:
The fact that EVE permits that gameplay makes all the other kinds of gameplay meaningful, which is awesome


Yes, EVE currently allows that kind of game play. This change is not going to create new game play, it's going to restrict game play options.



Agreed that removing the ability to shoot corpmates for non awox reasons could be an issue. But let's be honest, the entire concept of shooting anyone without incurring aggression or Concord sanction just seems a bit contrived. The game has basically created this loophole that avoids sanctions. For what? So some dude can say "but it adds to the game"? He could shoot someone anyway. This is basically just saying he should probably incur a sanction and the corp should be able to give him the boot more easily than now. Why should they get a free pass and make it difficult to remove them?
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#12 - 2014-10-31 14:23:43 UTC
Lell Scarlatti wrote:
Scale and grandeur of awoxing notwithstanding, the reasoning behind the change is troubling. Being able to shoot corpmates has been a part of the game since inception. Apparently, it hasn't bothered people enough in the last decade to prompt an earlier change, and I can't think of a compelling reason why suddenly its a big enough concern that it needs to be removed.


We're talking about CCP here. You know, the company that launched a half-finished game and then made changes to it that they never revisited? Seagull has cracked the whip and made them go through the game and actually design it.

The POS code was never intended to stick around this long. It was a quick something until they came up with a better solution. Ten years ago.

Lell Scarlatti wrote:
I don't see how removing the ability to awox will change player retention.


The hope is that the change will make high sec corps more willing to recruit openly and actively. It's more about the fear of safaris than the reality, granted, but the fear is making corps shutter up and act paranoid, and that deprives new players of easy access to the single most effective retention mechanism that EVE has: player corps.

Will it work? Is it enough? Is it too much? Time will tell. A complete overhaul of the corp interface is in the works, so maybe there will be an opportunity to add a lot more customization when they do (I would welcome that). For now, I can understand why they want to try this.

Lell Scarlatti wrote:
Quote:
The fact that EVE permits that gameplay makes all the other kinds of gameplay meaningful, which is awesome


Yes, EVE currently allows that kind of game play. This change is not going to create new game play, it's going to restrict game play options.


It doesn't have to create new game play to succeed. It only has to get a lot more new players into player corps within 10 days, because CCP's metrics say that that's the best indicator that they'll stick around. Under the current mechanics, that's not happening.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#13 - 2014-11-02 02:35:34 UTC
Howdy. I've not made it all the way through the minutes yet, but there's a bit of fuss over the talk of AWOXing being removed. I said in an earlier mail I didn't believe it led to trouble for newbies, but I guess if CCP's deliberating removing corp aggression, it's not for no reason?

I'm a believer in highsec aggression and I've been dissatisfied with the current state of that game. I'd made a draft of a forums post/mail on that subject a couple weeks before now. It's similar to the talk in the CSM session, so I'd like to present it in response to that.

I like AWOXing. I like that EVE players have this tool to harass or take revenge and a unique way to pirate. Suicide ganking requires a group and wardecs are impotent. I don't believe it's something EVE needs or that removing it kills the spirit of the game. That's a little nuts. But I do like it and it's a part of why I personally joined the game, despite not practicing such things myself.

The goals behind the draft was about changing some highsec rules to allow for greater degrees of personal or group success at the cost of greater degrees of exposure to other players, and to provide room to remove wardec dodging. So here it is.

---

1) Wardec-free corporations

This is a common idea and I'm listing it first in an attempt to set the tone of the post. I believe players should have the right to form a social group at whatever level of play they're comfortable with. I think we already know what the idea behind this is. A corporation that has all the normal features, but can't be wardecced and doesn't allow for corp members to shoot each other without committing a crime or using the duelling feature. If a player is uncomfortable playing at a higher level of risk, they're not going to face that risk. But a feature like this'd allow them to fly with friends, with corp hangars, taxes, standings, channels, bookmarks and roles.

(e: the minutes talked about a possible toggle for turning corp aggression on or off. if such a toggle was implemented, i think the toggle should start a one-week timer before triggering, and should give each character a popup warning. i also think it shouldn't be triggerable, on or off, during wartime.)

(ali aras mentioned something very similar in the session. fozzie said it didn't change the issue... why is that? i don't really understand. i've never been a recruiter or anything. hell, i'm playing skillqueue online right now. i assumed awoxing and newbies was trouble for highsec pve corps. i don't hear about the few corps around me [lowsec groups] having trouble with recruiting due to corp aggression rules. falcon talks about recruiting for a pirate group and having trouble due to awoxing, but awoxing in lowsec would happen even if there was no allowance for corp aggression)

(regardless of that opinion, i think it's something worth doing)

2) ... but players gain a disadvantage by not putting themselves at risk

Although I believe players should have a right to form a social group, they do not deserve to enjoy the same benefits at low levels of risk than people who desire to challenge themselves for greater profit. Currently it's possible to practically remove yourself from many risks (corp folding) without paying the penalty. I believe that someone who exposes themselves to risk and manages that risk well is entitled to greater opportunity, a chance for a higher degree of success in their endeavour than someone who refuses to face risk at all. Even in highsec. A corp that is unwardeccable (e: and unawoxable) would be taxed at a lower rate than NPC corps, but still face a high enough NPC tax that there's incentive for forming a normal, deccable corp. The corp wouldn't be able to claim sov or erect corp structures. Again, this is a fairly common idea.

3) Remove tax loopholes and stop taxing pointless things

Currently there's no incentive and no proper reward for a miner to join a corp. And I want miners to enjoy the opportunity to expose themselves to greater risk in highsec - for a good reason. Currently there's no good reason (mechanically) to leave an NPC corp with a mining character. I'd like mining to be taxable and taxed by NPC corps. I don't care how it's done lore-wise. Lower-strength mining lasers or CONCORD teleporting ore out of your bay. Incentive for miners to form normal corps. I'd prefer mining, even NPC-corp mining, wasn't nerfed, though, and this effectively amounts to an NPC corp mining nerf. Perhaps raise the gross yield on mining so that the net yield after tax will be the same per hour as it is now.
At the same time, I don't think an NPC corp (or wardec-free corp) member should be paying tax from activities carried out in lowsec or nullsec. Lowsec activities might be taxed at half or less, because the safeties gained by being in an NPC or undeccable corp don't matter so much. (almost don't matter at all, really) Wealth gained in nullsec shouldn't be taxed, because what advantage did the NPC player gain from being undeccable there? Bugger all.

4) Remove wardec loopholes

One goal for the above suggestions is to provide room for wardec loopholes to be addressed, with the aim of creating a more dynamic highsec wardec environment. This bit's hard and I have no good suggestions. I don't like corp folding to shed wardecs. I don't like that everyone can leave a decced corp and they don't suffer much penalty (after enjoying the rewards from their npc-tax-free corp, i don't think an individual should be wardec-free). I don't like that a tower can be taken down when a wardec is made, even though there is a timer on structure building for a new corp.

But even though I don't like those things and I'd like wardecs to be dynamic and meaningful, there's a good chance they'd still only be used for harassment and Jita undock camping no matter what efforts are made to change them. I don't know how to fix that or if it should be 'fixed'.

---
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#14 - 2014-11-02 02:37:54 UTC
there is a far bigger issue here and that is that the post character limit is 6000 but the post won't go if you're using 5999 characters. the above post had to be shortened to less than 5950 characters before it would go

i am outraged at the lies ccp is feeding us csm please fix it
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#15 - 2014-11-02 02:45:03 UTC
I was going to go on about wardecs but it's not really relevant here. Actually almost none of that post is really relevant, balls. There are meaningful wardecs around. There's not many, but they're there. When expressing dissatisfaction with wardecs, I guess I'm more dissatisfied with some of the wardeccers themselves than the people folding from harassment decs. It's not even a scene I'm involved with, so why the hell am I trying to comment on it?

The parts of the post I think matter are the parts on 'hobby' corps and taxes. I'd add this to the post but for THE BAREFACED LIES OF CCP'S WEBSERVICE.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#16 - 2014-11-12 16:58:52 UTC
oh no, not awoxing killing eve! it hardly will do that, 1 persons stupidity IE the person that recruits the awoxer shouldn't punish a corp full of other people, the popular groups people seem to awox are most notably mining groups where they come in and level the whole field and hold the corp hostage with an army of logi alts. it should punish the recruiter and not the rest of the corp with long terms of war and instant ship loss with out so much as even a warning because of 1 person, ive seen it many times now

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

St'oto
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#17 - 2014-11-18 05:46:23 UTC  |  Edited by: St'oto
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Lell Scarlatti wrote:
Scale and grandeur of awoxing notwithstanding, the reasoning behind the change is troubling. Being able to shoot corpmates has been a part of the game since inception. Apparently, it hasn't bothered people enough in the last decade to prompt an earlier change, and I can't think of a compelling reason why suddenly its a big enough concern that it needs to be removed.

I don't see how removing the ability to awox will change player retention. CCP is concerned with new player retention, which is fine, but who would waste the time to awox a trial account? As well as the fact that if a new player is going to quit the game over losing any ship that he can fly during a trial period, EVE would not have been an enjoyable game to him anyway. EVE is not a game for the every-man.


Eliminating the ability to shoot corpmates is supposed to promote recruiting new players into existing corps? That wasn't happening already? New player friendly corps themselves are probably a bigger cause of retention issues; low member count, low activity, poor social dynamics, etc. The whole corp membership - player retention issue is more of a social issue than a mechanical one.

Quote:
The fact that EVE permits that gameplay makes all the other kinds of gameplay meaningful, which is awesome


Yes, EVE currently allows that kind of game play. This change is not going to create new game play, it's going to restrict game play options.



Agreed that removing the ability to shoot corpmates for non awox reasons could be an issue. But let's be honest, the entire concept of shooting anyone without incurring aggression or Concord sanction just seems a bit contrived. The game has basically created this loophole that avoids sanctions. For what? So some dude can say "but it adds to the game"? He could shoot someone anyway. This is basically just saying he should probably incur a sanction and the corp should be able to give him the boot more easily than now. Why should they get a free pass and make it difficult to remove them?


While I don't personally use the "corp mate shooting mechanic" alot - it does have it's uses for non awoxxing purposes. Ever heard of testing new fits, etc? No matter how old you are in this game, u have never used EVERY fit conceivable. Nor do you want to instantly test that fit in 100% consensual, risky, PVP. (or even non consensual PVP) So that right there is one way for all of us to say that keeping that mechanic does have it's merits. I know personally I don't want to have to daisy chain duel requests when I want to test out a BS fit, etc. (Hell I don't even know if it's possible as I've never tried considering it's only function would be for this purpose if corp shooting got removed. As I've never daisy chained duels for actual PVP. Nor would I really want to considering the areas that's prevalent in would be rather suicidal to do so.)

So ya..don't really care about Awoxxing, even though I do believe it has it's uses. but I've never personally done it, nor have I even seen it done. But if they are going to start messing with mechanics that have existed since I first began this game around 11 years ago, they need to look at ALL the use cases! (check my history including the linked char.)

Likewise if they are going to remove/change something due to the NPE - they better have a darn good reason and it better not change the majority of the game or even set the building blocks for more changes that could impact the majority of the game down the line with the slippery slope routine.

EDIT: Also while we are on this issue, I thought up a case where this could potentially screw a form of Awoxxing that actually benefits the game. While ALOT of us, from vets who PVP constantly, to even new players, hate CODE - they do serve an important (albeit detestable) function in some areas of highsec. - To gank the hell out of people who utterly abuse industry. Heck I have several real people (some are bots as well) on my watch list that completely obliterate entire systems in mining barges. It irritates the hell out of me because I want to be able to kill them, but unless I spend mountains of isk to ruin their day in the form of griefing them (smartboming them going down to -10, then tagging back up to positive and repeating the process), so they move on and give others a chance to mine those resources, I can't do anything against them. I can simply do what I do now - add them to watchlist, swallow my pride, and contact freaking CODE to see if they want "free kills."

So awoxxing (when we can actually do that to said individuals who aren't protected by a damn NPC corp) - serves a function of leveling these guys out. I'm sorry but seeing one dude or in a lot of cases, bots, decimate entire systems, is not a "good form of gameplay."

So hopefully that's not too off topic. But it's tied to this Awoxxing issue and I'm not even in support of it. I just know that while these elements of the game are rather detestable, they do serve a necessary function.

LAST EDIT : I say they are detestable because they don't only keep their kills to these individuals. (players and/or bots who ****/pillage entire systems/constellations of belts)
Sera Kor-Azor
Amarrian Mission of the Sacred Word
#18 - 2014-11-19 13:36:47 UTC
Regarding the people who think that the removal of high sec AWOXing will ruin EVE, how many of you are high sec awoxers yourselves? Unless you are an AWOXer yourself, then aren't you just speculating?

For those that say "I support it, but I don't do it myself because it's boring', if you don't do it yourself, then what is your issue with it being removed from the game?

CCP need to retain players if they want to stay in business. Market research/ exit surveys have found one of the reasons for poor player retention is high sec AWOxing. Removing AWOXing from the game will only affect the game for those that actually do it, but financial bankruptcy really will ruin the world of EVE. The servers will be shut down, everything in your inventory will just be a memory, and everyone will be moving on to Star Citizen or the next flavor of the month.

The game is designed to encourage players to leave the NPC corporation and work together, but the encouragement of AWOXing, corp theft, etc. makes it more difficult for a player corp to hire and retain players. Even with a full API, which many find quite an invasion of their privacy, does not effectively screen out AWOXers. Internal sabotage severely limits the possibility of casual game play especially for new, inexperienced players. We should be encouraging mentors who spend their time, attention, and ISK patiently acting as mentors to the new blood, not making life more difficult for them just for the sake of a few of their tears.

High security means just that, a high level of security. It's the shallow end of the pool for learning to swim, not the shark tank.

Amarr is a theocratic Police state. The Caldari state is also a Fascist government. What makes you think that your every word, or brain scan, or electronic cash transference isn't being constantly monitored, scrutinized, and assessed? Your brain gets scanned and uploaded to a clone, so why would these brain scans not be accessible to The Ministry of Internal Order? What do you think the Ministry of Internal Order does?

I don't think war decs are necessarily useless either. Aren't CODE hiring newbies? Don't the AWOXers have another alt or financial backer who could send them the funds to pay the miniscule war dec fee, thus bypassing the anti-AWOX mechanism completely? 500 million for a doomed Catalyst is the cost of doing business, but asking someone to pay a war dec fee will ruin the game? Why not just shoot your corpies when they get to low sec or null sec? Faction warfare corporations would still be AWOXable, and it has to be a lot more glorious and challenging to shoot at players that can actually fight back.

If the carebears never leave high sec because they are risk adverse to begin with, there is no way you are going to convince them to undock and become flying pinatas anyways. They will find ways to ensure their safety, even if that means logging out or unsubscribing.

Benny Ohu has made some good points here. High sec could be made safer, but less comfortable and lucrative. A higher fence, bigger stick, and smaller carrots. I will add some of my suggestions.

-Station taxes could be linked to higher station security.

Yes, this will gradually break up Jita and slowly move the high sec trade hubs into low sec and null sec. It wouldn't affect newbies that much, but it would affect the station traders and industrialists who are making billions in ISK with very little risk. Also, the state militia, station agents, and CONCORD all have to get paid somehow.

-API checks in high sec could be made on characters automatically.

It might cost a 'significant' fee to run an API check, such as 10 million ISK per person. It might also be connected with faction standings, so you would have to prove your loyalty to the state first. A corporation should be able to access in game whatever files might exist on you through the Ministry of Internal Order, State Police, CONCORD and so on. I can run a Police background check on someone I want to hire in the real world, so why not EVE?

Don't like it? Get another account. API bypassed, hurdle overcome.

-State charter:

-Strictly high sec corporations could apply for a 'State charter', a 'license' to operate within that Faction. A state charter could come with certain conditions, such as an assessment to ensure that the corporation has at least 5 billion in assets. High standings within that faction with the ability to run level 4 missions may also be a requirement. Why would the Amarrians want the Minmatar mining in their space, and vice versa?

A state charter would be nothing more than a 'seal of approval', a badge for a corporation rather than a character. This would make it easier for newbies to pick an appropriate high sec corporation where they can grow and learn the game mechanics while they sort through the huge amount of possibilities available and the training they need to get there.

Remember, according to EVE's prime fiction all four of the factions are essentially security and surveillance states. Cameras everywhere, wiretaps everywhere, government officials scrutinizing your financial transactions. As capsuleers, we have a lot more freedom than the baseliners, but part of that freedom involves having the ability to get the heck out of high sec, and move into an area with lower levels of security. That is what the Frontier is all about.

This doesn't mean we are removing the sandbox, just taking the actual lore and prime fiction into consideration instead of merely focusing on game mechanics. After all, what parent would leave their toddler unattended in a sandbox?

"A manu dei e tet rimon" - I am the devoted hand of the divine God.

Kagehisa Shintaro
Back Door Burglars
#19 - 2014-11-22 16:58:36 UTC
Sera Kor-Azor wrote:

-API checks in high sec could be made on characters automatically.

It might cost a 'significant' fee to run an API check, such as 10 million ISK per person. It might also be connected with faction standings, so you would have to prove your loyalty to the state first. A corporation should be able to access in game whatever files might exist on you through the Ministry of Internal Order, State Police, CONCORD and so on. I can run a Police background check on someone I want to hire in the real world, so why not EVE?

Don't like it? Get another account. API bypassed, hurdle overcome.

-State charter:

-Strictly high sec corporations could apply for a 'State charter', a 'license' to operate within that Faction. A state charter could come with certain conditions, such as an assessment to ensure that the corporation has at least 5 billion in assets. High standings within that faction with the ability to run level 4 missions may also be a requirement. Why would the Amarrians want the Minmatar mining in their space, and vice versa?

A state charter would be nothing more than a 'seal of approval', a badge for a corporation rather than a character. This would make it easier for newbies to pick an appropriate high sec corporation where they can grow and learn the game mechanics while they sort through the huge amount of possibilities available and the training they need to get there.

Remember, according to EVE's prime fiction all four of the factions are essentially security and surveillance states. Cameras everywhere, wiretaps everywhere, government officials scrutinizing your financial transactions. As capsuleers, we have a lot more freedom than the baseliners, but part of that freedom involves having the ability to get the heck out of high sec, and move into an area with lower levels of security. That is what the Frontier is all about.

This doesn't mean we are removing the sandbox, just taking the actual lore and prime fiction into consideration instead of merely focusing on game mechanics. After all, what parent would leave their toddler unattended in a sandbox?


How would automatic API checking work? I mean, the things I check for in an API might be slightly different to what you check for? Or is it just more a matter of an API accompanying a Corp Application?

State Charter is an interesting idea for High Sec corporations, one I think is worth discussing.

But back to the topic at hand, AWOXing..... I've been in High Sec, Low Sec, Null Sec and now back to High Sec. I think it's vital I vet anyone applying to my Corp to watch for things like AWOXing, which lets face it, doesn't just show up on API.

I think it fits in with game lore nicely, a Corporation would handle internal security matters internally... infact, I would like to see this extended to High Sec Alliances, cos surely an Alliance of Corporations would have their own Security too.

I think it's important that New Players learn early on about the dangers of life in space, while they are in a position to recover from the loss relatively quickly. I think you will find that if a new player is AWOXed, corp mates will usually help recoup losses, if not the Corp reimburse them.

In those cases where the AWOX has cost billions, well, wouldn't it have been better than the victim learn earlier about the dangers of carrying too much or blinging a ship too much?


The NPE should be extended to show people how Low Sec operates and how life in space, even in High Sec, can be dangerous.



I "AWOX" myself all the time, my Freighter never goes anywhere without a Rapier hitting it off each gate, it's the only way I know to enjoy a part of the game I like (being Freighter Pilot) without incurring losses (cos not ever ganker looks for 1b+ Freighters). The webbing trick might be an exploit, but as long as speed fit Machariels can bounce ships as ridiculously as they can I'll exploit that every chance I get.


I don't think removal of AWOXing will ruin Eve, but I know it is pushing out one style of play. The dedicated Spy/Infiltrator/AWOXer, which will spend time infiltrating a corp looking for that big kill. If you want to improve the "community" feel of the game and the overall NPE, concentrate on gankers more than AWOXers. (that said, I'm not against ganking per se, I've enjoyed doing it myself - just it is a bit more of a grief for New Players than AWOXing I think ---- if you ask all those people who answered exit surveys again after explaining that ganking and AWOXing are not the same thing, you might get different answers --- and while we are on the subject of exit surveys, how many closed alt accounts were closed due to cloaky camping? - but hey, that's low and null only right? they can take care of themselves)

Any company can ship. We space ship. - CCP Guard

Iain Cariaba
#20 - 2014-11-22 21:13:27 UTC
The thing that needs fixing is not awoxing. What needs fixed is the mechanic to boot the awoxer from the Corp once he reveals himself for who he really is. As it currently sits, as long as the awoxer remains in space, he is free to continue his safari until downtime. If you change this one little thing so that someone in Corp with the proper roles can kick them immediately, it will achieve a lot of the proposed goal the awox nerf.
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