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Bring SP remapping to Eve (twist on the origional idea)

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test tube bunny
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-10-29 17:46:07 UTC
I know people already ran over this idea a dozen times, but hear me out, because CCPs changes to dust 514's up coming changes suggested an idea that maybe reasonably accepted by the community:

Key Points:
  • Use Aurum (aquired via RL cash or Plex) to convert used SP into unallocated SP.
  • Release SP per skill rather then a whole characters SP inventory.
  • Lose 20% of the SP you reallocate.
  • Cost in Aurum based on total number of SP in that skill.
  • Removal of skill from inventory.


So basic break down:
Allow individuals to target individual skills they do not want, whether it be after buying a character or simply a change in play style. Once the Aurum is paid the SP is released from the skill, the skill is lost (you would need to buy the book if you retain it), and 80% of the total SP is sent to unallocated SP.

Game Breaking?
  • Users would have to accept significant SP losses, and while this isn't an issue in skills completely unwanted/unused it is a serious issue for those simply doing massive remaps of characters SP.
  • Fixes the issue with rich people constantly remapping when ever they want with no consequence.
  • More expensive, the more time put into a skill, and the more advanced that skill is. (Diminishing returns).
  • Aurum cost could be reasonably cheap because of it's by skill method, cost of a few skills would be cheap, while significant costs for massive overhaul of a high SP character.
  • Add an additional SP sink outside of losing a pod with improper med clone.
  • Dynamic change to the character market, that will continue to effect it.


Summary:
Players who are RL rich could not endlessly remap SP without losing massive quantities. The system is usable by members of all levels and RL wealth, and scales with the age (SP quantity) of the characters in eve. Yes is provides another profit point for CCP, but while allowing the players to greatly adapt to personal and game changes as the years go on.
Michael Ignis Archangel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-10-29 18:26:41 UTC
Nothing should cost Aurum, ISK, PLEX, whatever that actually affects the game - that's called Pay to Win and it fundamentally unbalances games with hugely negative consequences. We all log on to have an equal shot at things, and it's frankly great that most peoples' attempts to Pay to Win end up on TMC's ALODs.

On top of that, please name one reason for this other than "I want this" or "I want to undo an error I committed", or a core gameplay issue that this would fix for everyone. There's one of these threads nearly every week, and they're all shot down with good reason. I'm against any change that reduces the impact of choices you make.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#3 - 2014-10-29 18:39:24 UTC
This is almost to reasonability. It makes it so that you can undo skills, pay CCP for your bad decisions, and pay again in SP, and then do it again when you realize you still need one of those skills for something important.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
test tube bunny
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-10-29 18:54:31 UTC  |  Edited by: test tube bunny
Michael Ignis Archangel wrote:
Nothing should cost Aurum, ISK, PLEX, whatever that actually affects the game - that's called Pay to Win and it fundamentally unbalances games with hugely negative consequences. We all log on to have an equal shot at things, and it's frankly great that most peoples' attempts to Pay to Win end up on TMC's ALODs.

On top of that, please name one reason for this other than "I want this" or "I want to undo an error I committed", or a core gameplay issue that this would fix for everyone. There's one of these threads nearly every week, and they're all shot down with good reason. I'm against any change that reduces the impact of choices you make.



This is in no way "Pay to win"...
  • It's accessible to all of the player base.
  • It has built in restrictions that keep people from farming the ability over and over without consequence.
  • Is does not give "game breaking" abilities in the game.
  • Eve isn't an "equal chance", and you don't login with a fair chance.
  • ISK is purely there to give you things that effect the game! Characters being bought, ships, implants, everything!


You are nieve to think nothing should be tied to micro transactions, when they are already here and in the game. You might as well of came here and complained about Plexes or cash being required in the transfer of characters after a sale.

Michael Ignis Archangel wrote:
please name one reason for this


Simple, the game changes and so do people. I've played this game for half a decade and my character doesn't reflect who I am now. Who started mining and doesn't mine anymore? Any of you guys try out invention and found it to be a waste of your time? Did you you try nullsec's huge fleets, and trained for a capital to find it mind numbing and now fly in smaller fleets with some other group?

This is a solution to how the game evolves and how individuals evolve within the game.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-10-29 20:39:38 UTC
test tube bunny wrote:

Use Aurum (aquired via RL cash or Plex) to convert used SP into unallocated SP.


Going to say this the nicest way I can:
Get the hell out of here with ****** pay-to-win ideas.

Thank you.
Iain Cariaba
#6 - 2014-10-29 21:12:23 UTC
test tube bunny wrote:
Simple, the game changes and so do people. I've played this game for half a decade and my character doesn't reflect who I am now. Who started mining and doesn't mine anymore? Any of you guys try out invention and found it to be a waste of your time? Did you you try nullsec's huge fleets, and trained for a capital to find it mind numbing and now fly in smaller fleets with some other group?

This is a solution to how the game evolves and how individuals evolve within the game.

You made the decisions the same as everyone else did. This is EvE, where decisions on what to train and when actually matter.

FYI, I spend years as a miner, I'm talking resource processing all but maxed out, but don't mine anymore. I tried invention, and didn't like it. I trained capitals and marauders, but now fly cruisers. I know exactly where you stand, but I do not stand with you.
Michael Ignis Archangel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-10-29 21:20:50 UTC
test tube bunny wrote:



This is in no way "Pay to win"...
  • It's accessible to all of the player base.
  • It has built in restrictions that keep people from farming the ability over and over without consequence.
  • Is does not give "game breaking" abilities in the game.
  • Eve isn't an "equal chance", and you don't login with a fair chance.
  • ISK is purely there to give you things that effect the game! Characters being bought, ships, implants, everything!


You are nieve to think nothing should be tied to micro transactions, when they are already here and in the game. You might as well of came here and complained about Plexes or cash being required in the transfer of characters after a sale.


If you would take a moment to look at things you can pay for, they are 100% vanity items, or items that affect your account, nothing affects your character (beyond the portrait), ever. This is an important distinction.

test tube bunny wrote:

Simple, the game changes and so do people. I've played this game for half a decade and my character doesn't reflect who I am now. Who started mining and doesn't mine anymore? Any of you guys try out invention and found it to be a waste of your time? Did you you try nullsec's huge fleets, and trained for a capital to find it mind numbing and now fly in smaller fleets with some other group?

This is a solution to how the game evolves and how individuals evolve within the game.


Yes, people change, but where is the problem? Having played for five years doesn't entitle you to instantly obtain SP in some area you haven't spent the time, specifically, for. I have a whole bunch of wasted skillpoints on this charcter (my first, main). These were bad choices, and someone who'd done more research on skills, or specialized from the beginning, should reap those rewards. I reiterate, I (and a considerable contingent of others) will generally oppose any effort to erase or somehow mitigate past mistakes.

Another reason I consider this pretty bad idea is the imbalance towards new players - if I've spent every second of my spacelife training for a sweet Tengu, and you, who's got a few million "wasted" SP, can just replicate that relatively on a whim... no thanks. We don't need to hand veteran players such a gross advantage.
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#8 - 2014-10-29 21:27:27 UTC
The skill system in EvE works, it is reasonably fair and as far as I know can't be exploited or gamed. This is just yet another attempt to add a "pay2win" element to the system and "fix" something that isn't broken.

Not supported

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#9 - 2014-10-29 21:57:33 UTC
You can do this already (without the skillpoint loss). Just sell a toon on the character bazaar and buy a new one with the skills you want.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-10-29 23:44:56 UTC
Simply because you do not use a skill at the specific moment doesn't mean it is useless or that you will never need to use it again.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#11 - 2014-10-29 23:52:06 UTC
Malcanis' Law applies.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#12 - 2014-10-30 00:53:59 UTC
NO for all the reasons mentioned by others.
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-10-30 03:27:16 UTC
I'm looking for the "twist" in the OP, and not seeing it. Why isn't this a 100% redundant thread?
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-10-30 14:09:15 UTC
Petre en Thielles wrote:
You can do this already (without the skillpoint loss). Just sell a toon on the character bazaar and buy a new one with the skills you want.


Pretty much, so why not have SP resets.

They change game mechanics, so we should be able to reassign SP.

I would not buy someone else's toon no matter what.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#15 - 2014-10-30 17:02:55 UTC
Dust does not have attributes so you cant specialise into two attributes, train long pointless skills at faster than a 20% increase and then reallocate those skills else where regardless of attributes.

you can essentially buy SP with this idea at the same time as making attributes pointless.

no thanks.

Why not just accept that you can train into anything at the same speed as everyone else. You just have to start from scratch.

stop being lazy 'i want it now' kinda douche.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Lothros Andastar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-10-30 17:33:24 UTC
This is needed because CCP like to make entire sections of the game completely useless.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#17 - 2014-10-30 17:37:26 UTC
Lothros Andastar wrote:
This is wanted by FOTM sheep because CCP like to make regular balancing udates.


FTFY

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#18 - 2014-10-30 18:16:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Rift
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Dust does not have attributes so you cant specialise into two attributes, train long pointless skills at faster than a 20% increase and then reallocate those skills else where regardless of attributes.

you can essentially buy SP with this idea at the same time as making attributes pointless.

no thanks.

Why not just accept that you can train into anything at the same speed as everyone else. You just have to start from scratch.

stop being lazy 'i want it now' kinda douche.



make it a 50% penalty then and make it so it only increases the speed of sp accumulation to a max of 50% so 2000sp/hr goes to 3000sp/hr. until all the sp from the skill are used. to be honest this should be the way all un allocated sp should be treated as just an increase to current training rate till the sp is used up.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#19 - 2014-10-30 18:17:25 UTC
i'd be happier with a 75-100% penalty and with no increase in SP/hour.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Ix Method
Doomheim
#20 - 2014-10-30 18:28:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Ix Method
Daichi Yamato wrote:
i'd be happier with a 75-100% penalty and with no increase in SP/hour.

This.

At this point there's no way to game the system with remaps, no way to buy characters off the Bazaar and magic them useful.

If the penalty was 75/80/90% it would become a niche, generally one off thing where you could get rid of all those mining skills you randomly trained in your first six months and blow them all on something small but worthwhile, like HIC V to use a relevant example.

Suddenly its less a 'pay2win' feature and more of a 'thanks for playing for five years, have one expansion training for the FOTM off'.

And there's arguably some value in that.

Travelling at the speed of love.
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