Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yep, it projects damage better than a Blaster-Proteus, it's already outrageously bad as it is, if blasters were to project damage better than a bonused medium AC boat...

Your Vagabond does 250 DPS at 23km. Yep, that's fantastic.

A Cerberus projects its 475 DPS at 45.6km. Selectable damage, cap-less guns.

A Navy Omen projects its 330 DPS at 41km. Alright, not selectable and not cap-less. Use the capbooster, it will be just fine.

An Ishtar projects its 661 DPS at 83km. Selectable damage, cap-less guns.

And I can keep going. The Vagabond simply doesn't compete at all. It's not even REMOTELY close.

All the ships I've mentioned have a solid 100 DPS (400 DPS for the Ishtar !) more than the Vagabond at twice the range, except maybe for the Navy Omen which is a bit inferior to the other two HACs when it comes to DPS.

The other "advantages" ACs have are moot when you can't actually hurt the target.



When my Deimos sees something it doesn't like, it doesn't engage it and it warps out. I don't know why would you get within scramble-range of something you don't want to engage but alright.

Your Active-tanked Armor Deimos goes 2km/s, 2.7km/s overloaded. Don't act like you're flying a brick-tanked Bhaalgorn in Deklein.


When you meet a blaster-ship, you pray to god he isn't active tanked, because if he is, you won't have enough ammo to bring it down with your pathetic DPS.

Also, you better be good at range-control. Because with my 2km/s Deimos, I can without a doubt slingshot you or slingshot and leave your point range. You absolutly don't have room for error. 20km is too close and an OL MWD pulse might get you within tackle range. 24km is your upper limit.

If you meet a laser ship, you brawl it to death if it's a kiting laser ship. Because if it's not a kiting ship, it's a brawling ship. And it will kill you unless you're in a Vagabond maybe. Or the brawling ship doesn't have a web for some dumb reason.



Yep, kiting range is more like 18-20km. Which is a very small gap from 15km. A very small gap from blaster territory.

When your medium-ranged weapon system is inches away from the super-short-ranged weapon system, you know something is wrong.

LoL, Using an Ishtar is not a comparison for anything. They are so OP it's not funny.

What AC ships are you talking about ?

Except Sleipnirs (which are very much used as high-tank brawling ships), I haven't seen many AC ships.

except applying dps while neuted, and putting applied damage on T2 Gallente and Caldari hulls.

no, they don't need an optimal increase, i like to see blasters having more optimal, since they're the specialized brawling weapon, and operate at close range. I'd just like to see base a/c fall-off increased, to actually make them a medium range weapon.

Can they shoot at medium ranges? Yes. Will the dps they apply [with a bonused hull] enough to kill anything other than frigates and buffer fits? no.

We're not asking for a 100% paper dps application at 25km, but just a 2-3km base fall-off increase. This shifts the dps curve higher at the desired point range where most fall-off ships operate at (medium range).


As an alternative, if some see this as heavy-handed, then i propose giving minmatar ships larger fall-off bonuses on the hulls that have them.

So, as an example, the fall-off bonus on the stabber/vagabond goes from 10% to 15%, giving a 25% increase over what they are now at lvl 5. So, if you were getting 25km with your vaga, now you get roughly 30km with 2 TE's.

This gives the bonused matar hulls more specialization and makes them more capable of engaging similar sized targets. But doesn't boost all AC's. The plus to this, is it makes the fall-off bonus on obscure ships like the broadsword viable, since it could provide anti-tackle support much more effectively (since its slow as ****). Not that big null-sec groups would use it in that way, but for small gangs, maybe.

A 15% bonused tornado could be pretty ridiculous. So maybe leaving large bonused hulls out of it.

Edit: Or setup the bonuses based on ship size

Small sized: 20% bonus to fall-off per level
Medium sized: 15% bonus to fall-off per level
Large sized: 10% bonus to fall-off per level

Just a thought anyway. Kinda makes it look like a band-aid though.

ok i think anyone who's quoting numbers and dps from now on should also include the fit for the omen navy to hit to 41km it needs 2 tracking computers, you can go tracking enhancers but you need 4 heat sinks to get 330 dps and with a 6km fall off you gotta have the tracking computers. Do we count ships that don't have tanks prop mods or tackle in these arguments? because my eft'ed pest gets 1100+ dps without drones and applies damage out to 47km!!

If you increase the range of ac's to compeate with pulse lasers then no one will ever use pulse lasers because the cap could be better spent on other things if another gun will do the job at the same range so I'd like to give pulse lasers a win button so that when they shoot everything dies. You know since we're asking for silly things and making stuff up!

Ok so that last part got a bit silly.

Calm down there, 2012.

Anyway, medium projectiles are in the shitter right now. Laser cruisers are better in every way. The stabber is especially pathetic compared to ships like the kiting omen.

Vargurs, Jaguars, slashers, thrashers, sabres, dramiels, machariels, stilletos, AC Ferox's, huginns, AC Herons, Lokis, stabber fleets, stabbers, rapier, ruptures, canes, rifters, vagas, cynabals etc

but you dont see that many turrets in general, more missiles and drones. Lasers seem to be the least used.

shield tempest has over 1100dps with hail and falloff is at ~30km. but at 47km its doing less than 100 gun dps, its probably drones doing most the dps at that range.

A mega outdps the tempest with blaster on all ranges. That while armor tanked and the tempest shield tanked!!! Ifyou armor tank the tempest, it becomes a massive joke.