These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Achuran Cultural Survey
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#141 - 2014-12-05 15:26:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jandice Ymladris
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:


No doubt it is, as you say, what they do - But does that make it, in any regard, just? These are peoples homes we are talking about.


All too true, and people deserve the best accommodation they can get. This not only means their homes, but also the availability of various city services. The homes of these people were pre-industrial structures, there exists no justification outside 'this is how they should live' to keep them in such homes, if they can get much more advanced commodities.
If the choice is between urban sprawl, covering large areas 'because we want to respect people's homes' or high density city-structures 'to minimize surface used & maximize efficient usage' I would prefer the latter.
SuVee only has a limited selection of land on Achura, so they have to maximize its usage. Letting the old cutlural buildings to stand would mean SuVee had to claim more land to harbour all it's citizens.
In the end you could say there is no real 'right way', but rather choices to be made, choices that would always have a negative & positive impact.
Is the loss of cultural heritage a sad thing? Yes it is, but choices have to be made, and the monasteries in the rural lands thrive without SuVee intervention because of the sacrifice made by the uplifting of the cities in this regard.

Gwen Ikiryo wrote:

You also haven't mentioned anything to do with the deposing of our government, or the enforcing of Caldari cultural standards, in the second section.


I didn't comment on this, as there's practically nothing known about the change of government. The deposing/fall of the Monarchy is not registration anywhere. Could be SuVee had a hand in it, could be it was part of the deal the Elders made, 'depose the royals, recognize us as the government and youll have the cities' kind of deal. In the end it isn't known. Could also be the Monarchy was gone by the time SuVee arrived.

On the 'enforcing of Caldari culture' it did happen in the cities, as they fell under SuVee control, but beyond the cities there is little to no evidence of any enforcing of caldari culture, the contrary even, the Monasteries and rural communities are generally left to their own devices.



(Edit: because this is a more visible spot; the report I ran on Achura history, inspired by Miss Gwen's Cultural Achura Survey: The Achura, a history divided )

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#142 - 2014-12-05 17:10:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Gwen Ikiryo
Miss Ymladris,

I think if we began to count the amount that has been destroyed across all of human history by "enlightened" peoples attempting to improve the lives of the less advanced based on the quite questionable understanding that their ways are always better, I fear we would all breathe our last before we were finished.

Needless to say, I disagree very strongly with your logic. What matters is not how much Sukuuvestaa improved the lives of the people of the homeworlds capitals, it is that they did it without asking. It was not their choice to make.

And, frankly, if we put raw quality of life before way of life in such unambigious terms as you do, we ought to all be living within Federal borders, because it has the every other society in the cluster soundly by the throat.

Also,

Quote:
I didn't comment on this, as there's practically nothing known about the change of government. The deposing/fall of the Monarchy is not registration anywhere. Could be SuVee had a hand in it, could be it was part of the deal the Elders made, 'depose the royals, recognize us as the government and youll have the cities' kind of deal. In the end it isn't known. Could also be the Monarchy was gone by the time SuVee arrived.


It is historical fact that the monarchy was still in place upon the arrival of SuVee, and that they were the ones that replaced it. In my opinion, any further guesswork amounts to conspiracy theory. I hope you forgive my bluntness - This topic has been long and very tiring.

In any case, I'll try to write up a final conclusion later tonight.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#143 - 2014-12-05 17:17:42 UTC
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
Miss Ymladris,

I think if we began to count the amount that has been destroyed across all of human history by "enlightened" peoples attempting to improve the lives of the less advanced based on the quite questionable understanding that their ways are always better, I fear we would all breathe our last before we were finished.

Needless to say, I disagree very strongly with your logic. What matters is not how much Sukuuvestaa improved the lives of the people of the homeworlds capitals, it is that they did it without asking. It was not their choice to make.

And, frankly, if we put raw quality of life before way of life in such unambigious terms as you do, we ought to all be living within Federal borders, because it has the every other society in the cluster soundly by the throat.

In any case, I'll try to write up a final conclusion later tonight.


Try and be at least superficially unbiaised, Gwen. And try to think of the future, rather than mourning a poorly documented past.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#144 - 2014-12-05 17:20:58 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Try and be at least superficially unbiaised, Gwen. And try to think of the future, rather than mourning a poorly documented past.


Pieter,

You have nothing to worry about. The final post will be nothing but figures and very basic inferences based on them. I'm not going to end it with a manifesto about how now it's time for any loyal Achuran Capsuleers to head to Saisio and blockade the SuVee capital station, or something.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#145 - 2014-12-05 17:33:23 UTC
Thank you. Some of my sibkin are still working security there, you know. I have to admit that I have a personal interest in keeping things nice and peaceful.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.