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Cheap in human resources invention

Author
Sincerity Angel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-10-29 02:08:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Sincerity Angel
Posting here, because i think CCP don`t read Russian Ideas tread.
Orginal text here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=381830

This is cutted version, full version in Russian forum

So, we have a wide variety of kapsuleer ships , however, there are some shortcomings, mostly smaller ones, namely:
a) When managing a large ship, does not feel its size, it is a bit frustrating, especially if you're five minutes ago, moved out of a frigate in the battleship (I'm not talking about all sorts of useless titans are offline 98% of their time)
b) - I released drones stop hey, wait a minute, where they departed? What?
a) - Incredible! so many races have evolved in parallel developed identically looking capsules !!! Ugh
g) - Windows? a warship? Oh look seems in one of them is undressing woman! But ... oh no, this is a trap! Cannons! Fire at the windows! Evil
d) (representative of an alien race, yet not entered into contact with kapsuleers) - LOL, Look, judging by the patterns of their ships, they all have only one bridge! But still not clear why he needed it there, when the ship is controlled from a strange device inside ship.
e) - yahoo! I boosted to full speed! Wait a minute, how to brake? Where coursework brake engines??

Total, my suggestions for improvement of visual flaws:
1) Make race-specific capsule models.
1.1) Make capsule a part of the ship model - you can dock capsule and it work as cockpit, and undock as escape pod. No more "teleportation like" doccking, docking undocking must be animated. Capsule placed on the armoro(or partially hidden in the armor)
2) Make 3 different camera views, all of it can be switched off in the menu: a)Cockpit view b)Under cockpit view(close to the ship), and c) Free camera like now. That uses only one purpose - players must sense the size of the ships, now if you switch frigate to the battleship you will not sense the size of the ship.
2.1) I mean now rookie ship useless trash, no one uses it in real battle, only for fun, and about 1 hour of the tutorial.
I offer expand that ship category, and rebalance it for using as heavy fighters, more powerfull than any af the drones, more quick than frigates, but slower than drones. Resize this ships 3 times larger than heavy drone. And make anti-drone bubbles for interdictors, that will:
a)Less drones will be used in wars. Drones find their use in mission running
b) new fun for newbie that any noob can find their use on the corps carriers\drone ships that will bring people from the hisec to lowsec and nullsec without worsen gameplay in hisec or cutting money grinding in hisec.
c) improve fleet gameplay and teach newbies to play with others and game basics without harming they psychology(lol)
2.2) Make drones refitable. drones have 1 of each slot, rockie ships have more slots(in vary races and ships, slots variable).
Drones don`t have rig slots, but rockie ships have!
2.3) leave a one model for each race to drones, now the refitable and no need in a lots of drones models.
2.4) Every ship, that have a drone bay can fit a rockie ship, now become dockable for rockie ships to the repairs and refit, but cargo of the carrier unaccesible, carrier owner will set they own repairs cost.
3) make a landing pad of the drones carrier animated - that means any drone\rockie ship docked to the ship will be shown in landing pad, and when ship undocks, or drones released, they just flyoff from the pad(and dont appears at the space)
4)Retexture all that damn it ships!!!! texture may not be in HD but it MUST be accurate!!! Remove that windows! Who will place windows on the ship that sometimes under fire? I don`t want to lose ANY of the man in my ship crew! And reduce that christmas tree flashing lights! Google for "marker lights placing international rules"!
5) You have backward engine that speedup uour ship. Cool. But space is cruel. It have no air to stop your ship. You must have engines on the front to stop your ship. Or you wil crash on the asteroid. Space does not forgive.
But engines in the front of the ship will look ugly and weird. That i offer make it in air intake form with flames placed deep inside(but anyway you can see it if you look in this "tube" from the front).

P.S. Too much asymmetry is bad. Asymmetry in space ships makes them uncontrollble. Physics Grade 7 in Russian schools.
Engines must be placed in front of, or symmetrical against ship mass center.

I will be glad commentaries players sensible proposal and reasonable criticism.
Sincerely, Sincerity, EG pilot .
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2014-10-29 02:18:21 UTC
I have no idea what I'm reading
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#3 - 2014-10-29 02:32:05 UTC
I think the automatic translator scrambled it, and translated it word for word, rather than even trying to convert to english syntax. As it is, it is pretty unintelligible. If anyone can read it, can you summarize it please?

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Heresy Heresy
Para's Lumbar Support
Gooseflock Featheration
#4 - 2014-10-29 06:02:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Heresy Heresy
I'm not totally sure, but the main points appear to be:

  • 1. Make race-specific capsule models.
  • 1.1. Make abandoned ships look abandoned - have turrets in the off mode, for instance.
  • 2. Make an internal cockpit model for ships, so you can zoom the camera out from the cockpit, all the way to the normal outside views.
  • 2.1. Make rookie ships have the physics of fighters/heavy drones(?), so you could do cool things with them.
  • 2.2./2.3. Make some kind of heavy drone you could refit, so you could have more variance in drones without making new drones/drone models.
  • 2.4. Make rookie ships have 3x the volume of a heavy drone, and let them dock in drone bays (???).
  • 3. Make at least part of the drone bay a part of a ship's model, so you can see the drones hanging off your ship.
  • 4. Make textures more HD, remove the windows on ships (they're a structural weakness), and use less blinky lights on ships.
  • 5. Add some lateral and retro thruster effects to your ship when you're turning/braking.


After that, he seems to ask CCP to make ships more symmetrical? That's heresy if I ever heard it, but whatever. Most of it sounds really impractical, but the refittable drone idea is interesting.

Sincerity Angel: Пожалуйста, не используйте автоматические переводчики! Мы не можем понять, что вы говорите!
Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2014-10-29 07:03:38 UTC
Heresy Heresy wrote:
I'm not totally sure, but the main points appear to be:

  • 1. Make race-specific capsule models.
  • 1.1. Make abandoned ships look abandoned - have turrets in the off mode, for instance.
  • 2. Make an internal cockpit model for ships, so you can zoom the camera out from the cockpit, all the way to the normal outside views.
  • 2.1. Make rookie ships have the physics of fighters/heavy drones(?), so you could do cool things with them.
  • 2.2./2.3. Make some kind of heavy drone you could refit, so you could have more variance in drones without making new drones/drone models.
  • 2.4. Make rookie ships have 3x the volume of a heavy drone, and let them dock in drone bays (???).
  • 3. Make at least part of the drone bay a part of a ship's model, so you can see the drones hanging off your ship.
  • 4. Make textures more HD, remove the windows on ships (they're a structural weakness), and use less blinky lights on ships.
  • 5. Add some lateral and retro thruster effects to your ship when you're turning/braking.


After that, he seems to ask CCP to make ships more symmetrical? That's heresy if I ever heard it, but whatever. Most of it sounds really impractical, but the refittable drone idea is interesting.

Sincerity Angel: Пожалуйста, не используйте автоматические переводчики! Мы не можем понять, что вы говорите!

i'll assume that your interpretation is correct

1 the current capsule tech we all used was developed by Iskukone Corporation with some help from the Jove not by each race on its own.

1.1 would be neat? but not needed
2 you are not in a cockpit
2.1-2.4 just why
3. the exit of the drone bays are already on most modals (even on ships that can no longer use them)
4. they have HD just can't get them in yet and meh nothing wrong with flashy in a game
5 learn how the warp drive affects how the ship interacts with space in the lore and why these aren't needed.
Sincerity Angel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-10-29 13:22:06 UTC
Heresy Heresy wrote:
I'm not totally sure, but the main points appear to be:

  • 1. Make race-specific capsule models.
  • 1.1. Make abandoned ships look abandoned - have turrets in the off mode, for instance.
  • 2. Make an internal cockpit model for ships, so you can zoom the camera out from the cockpit, all the way to the normal outside views.
  • 2.1. Make rookie ships have the physics of fighters/heavy drones(?), so you could do cool things with them.
  • 2.2./2.3. Make some kind of heavy drone you could refit, so you could have more variance in drones without making new drones/drone models.
  • 2.4. Make rookie ships have 3x the volume of a heavy drone, and let them dock in drone bays (???).
  • 3. Make at least part of the drone bay a part of a ship's model, so you can see the drones hanging off your ship.
  • 4. Make textures more HD, remove the windows on ships (they're a structural weakness), and use less blinky lights on ships.
  • 5. Add some lateral and retro thruster effects to your ship when you're turning/braking.


After that, he seems to ask CCP to make ships more symmetrical? That's heresy if I ever heard it, but whatever. Most of it sounds really impractical, but the refittable drone idea is interesting.

Sincerity Angel: Пожалуйста, не используйте автоматические переводчики! Мы не можем понять, что вы говорите!



Partially correct, but not all.
1) Correct, but not for fun, explanation goes in
1.1) Make capsule a part of the ship model - you can dock capsule and it work as cockpit, and undock as escape pod. No more "teleportation like" doccking, docking undocking must be animated.
2) Make 3 different camera views, all of it can be switched off in the menu: a)Cockpit view b)Under cockpit view(close to the ship), and c) Free camera like now. That uses only one purpose - players must sense the size of the ships, now if you switch frigate to the battleship you will not sense the size of the ship.
2.1) I mean now rookie ship useless trash, no one uses it in real battle, only for fun, and about 1 hour of the tutorial.
I offer expand that ship category, and rebalance it for using as heavy fighters, more powerfull than any af the drones, more quick than frigates, but slower than drones. Resize this ships 3 times larger than heavy drone. And make anti-drone bubbles for interdictors, that will:
a)Less drones will be used in wars. Drones find their use in mission running
b) new fun for newbie that any noob can find their use on the corps carriers\drone ships that will bring people from the hisec to lowsec and nullsec without worsen gameplay in hisec or cutting money grinding in hisec.
c) improve fleet gameplay and teach newbies to play with others and game basics without harming they psychology(lol)
2.2) Make drones refitable. drones have 1 of each slot, rockie ships have more slots(in vary races and ships, slots variable).
Drones don`t have rig slots, but rockie ships have!
2.3) leave a one model for each race to drones, now the refitable and no need in a lots of drones models.
2.4) Every ship, that have a drone bay can fit a rockie ship, now become dockable for rockie ships to the repairs and refit, but cargo of the carrier unaccesible, carrier owner will set they own repairs cost.
3) make a landing pad of the drones carrier animated - that means any drone\rockie ship docked to the ship will be shown in landing pad, and when ship undocks, or drones released, they just flyoff from the pad(and dont appears at the space)
4)Retexture all that damn it ships!!!! texture may not be in HD but it MUST be accurate!!! Remove that windows! Who will place windows on the ship that sometimes under fire? I don`t want to lose ANY of the man in my ship crew! And reduce that christmas tree flashing lights! Google for "marker lights placing international rules"!
5) You have backward engine that speedup uour ship. Cool. But space is cruel. It have no air to stop your ship. You must have engines on the front to stop your ship. Or you wil crash on the asteroid. Space does not forgive.
But engines in the front of the ship will look ugly and weird. That i offer make it in air intake form with flames placed deep inside(but anyway you can see it if you look in this "tube" from the front).

P.S. Too much asymmetry is bad. Asymmetry in space ships makes them uncontrollble. Physics Grade 7 in Russian schools.
Engines must be placed in front of, or symmetrical against ship mass center.
Sincerity Angel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-10-31 10:33:47 UTC
If someone from the dev be here and read it, please comment like "read, not interesting", or "Interested", or just "read"
Wolf Incaelum
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-10-31 17:40:09 UTC
Sincerity Angel wrote:

P.S. Too much asymmetry is bad. Asymmetry in space ships makes them uncontrollble. Physics Grade 7 in Russian schools.
Engines must be placed in front of, or symmetrical against ship mass center.


Asymmetry isn't necessarily bad. For starters, the shape of the ship doesn't really matter in general because there are no drag, lift, etc. forces in a vacuum. As far as the thrusters being centered behind the center of mass, the largest thrusters (or the largest group of thrusters) usually are behind the ship's center of mass. Look at the Catalyst, for example. Viewing a Cat from the rear side, the area of the ship that would house the "bridge" is on the far right side. There is a large thruster on the back side of that part of the ship.

If that were the only thruster on the ship, there would be problems because the inertia of the the ship mass to the left of that thruster (the "wing" looking part of the ship) will want to hold that portion of the ship in place, which would cause a lot of stress on the hull of the ship where the "wing" connects to the "bridge". Therefore, there are smaller thrusters evenly spaced across the back side of the "wing" that I imagine produce different quantities of thrust. This way, the entire mass of the ship can accelerate as one TOTAL mass, rather than having one mass clinging on to another mass trying to keep up.

The asymmetry thing is less of a problem and more of a visual discomfort for some people, especially people with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder...

ANARCHYFOREVAAARRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

Sincerity Angel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-11-01 22:11:16 UTC
Wolf Incaelum wrote:
Sincerity Angel wrote:

P.S. Too much asymmetry is bad. Asymmetry in space ships makes them uncontrollble. Physics Grade 7 in Russian schools.
Engines must be placed in front of, or symmetrical against ship mass center.


Asymmetry isn't necessarily bad. For starters, the shape of the ship doesn't really matter in general because there are no drag, lift, etc. forces in a vacuum. As far as the thrusters being centered behind the center of mass, the largest thrusters (or the largest group of thrusters) usually are behind the ship's center of mass. Look at the Catalyst, for example. Viewing a Cat from the rear side, the area of the ship that would house the "bridge" is on the far right side. There is a large thruster on the back side of that part of the ship.

If that were the only thruster on the ship, there would be problems because the inertia of the the ship mass to the left of that thruster (the "wing" looking part of the ship) will want to hold that portion of the ship in place, which would cause a lot of stress on the hull of the ship where the "wing" connects to the "bridge". Therefore, there are smaller thrusters evenly spaced across the back side of the "wing" that I imagine produce different quantities of thrust. This way, the entire mass of the ship can accelerate as one TOTAL mass, rather than having one mass clinging on to another mass trying to keep up.

The asymmetry thing is less of a problem and more of a visual discomfort for some people, especially people with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder...


Farther thrusters from center - hardest to rotate the ship without decrease the force from one of them. But it works for symmetrical ship. Catalyst have lever between forces and mass center, and different forces on the left and right side, yes forces compensate levers to go forward(theoretically), but while you try turn left, or right you will have problem because turning in one direction will be easier than turning in another.

But i talking about a LOTS ships with uncentered engines, look at caracal - ALL it mass on the bottom and engines placed at the top. This ship won`t fly forward.
Gaan Cathal
Angry Mustellid
#10 - 2014-11-12 14:37:12 UTC
The four different Empires didn't develop identical Capsule technology in parallel. Capsules are Jove technology that they handed to the Empires (because increasing the number of immortal demigods with warships was a good idea?) - hence why Capsules have the same texture and colour scheme as Jove hulls.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-11-12 15:32:36 UTC
Gaan Cathal wrote:
The four different Empires didn't develop identical Capsule technology in parallel. Capsules are Jove technology that they handed to the Empires (because increasing the number of immortal demigods with warships was a good idea?) - hence why Capsules have the same texture and colour scheme as Jove hulls.

to be fair, the empires were being dicks and were looking towards Jove space and the potential of a decisive technological edge to whatever race won a war with the Jove first to use in their war against the other empires.

So the Jove used the empires' greed for power and gave them the capsule, a weapon capable of making stronger, faster, immortal pilots. The Jove mroe than likely knew that the kind of person to survive the conversion to a capsuleer is just as corrupt and power hungry as the empires they spawned from, and would eventually look to their parent empire as an obstacle rather than a master.

so the empires got an irreplaceable weapon they cant risk disposing of for fear the other empire's dont, while that same weapon is slowly bleeding them dry and going rogue.



In short, Capsuleers are what happens when HAL 9000 has a baby with a Nuclear Warhead.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#12 - 2014-11-12 16:01:39 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Rowells wrote:
I have no idea what I'm reading

It's more fun that way.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#13 - 2014-11-12 17:11:37 UTC
Wolf Incaelum wrote:
Asymmetry isn't necessarily bad. For starters, the shape of the ship doesn't really matter in general because there are no drag, lift, etc. forces in a vacuum...


That maybe true in a vacuum but space is not a vacuum and since our ships have mass, drag forces still apply.

Space is far from empty.

Wolf Incaelum wrote:

The asymmetry thing is less of a problem and more of a visual discomfort for some people, especially people with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder...


I can fully agree to that.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#14 - 2014-11-12 18:23:41 UTC
Most of the OP's list can pretty much be categorized as "I do not like this, it rubs me the wrong way."

1a. Capsules are Jovian technology. The raw materials are provided by the Jovians (special Fullerene metals we cannot replicate) and then they are assembled by Ishukone Corporation... which sells them to everyone.
Why does a Caldari corporation provide capsules to everyone, even the Gallente, when they could simply hoard the technology? They sell it to everyone because they are greedy.

1.1a. Capsules are inside the ship. Use your imagination for how they get in and out.

2a. There is no "cockpit" in your ship. The capsule is not a chair with a joystick and a buttons. Your character's body is floating in a liquid filled ball with wires attached to his brain.

2.1a. It is a rookie ship. Making it not terrible will turn it into free firepower.

And no to anti-drone bubbles. There is nothing wrong with using drones in combat. And entire ship types should not be removed just because you do not like them.

2.2a. This conflicts with your last point. Why make drones better when you are trying to prevent their use in PvP?
And rookie ships are not drones. They are small frigates the size of large airplanes. Drones are the size of people and small cars.

Rookie ships don't have rig slots.

2.3a. So you are proposing no more light, medium, heavy, or sentry drones... how big will they be? Ships have limited drone space.

2.4a. Rookie ships, no. But I would not be opposed for batlecruisers and larger to have a shuttle bay.

3a. They are working on it. But the art department is slow. And they are only going to do it with newer models.

4a. How do you know those are windows? They could be lighting to distract the enemy and make them hit the strongest points on the ship.
Whatever. It is visual flavor.

5a. According to the lore... the warp drive exerts a "drag" effect on the local space around you... so no need for forward thrusters.
And you cannot turn off the warp core.


As for asymmetry... again, it is for visual flavor. You remember the ships better because they bother you. Accept that the art department likes to make interesting ships that do not follow popular convention.
It is only a game after all.


Sincerity Angel wrote:
If someone from the dev be here and read it, please comment like "read, not interesting", or "Interested", or just "read"

The DEVs rarely respond. They do not want to show bias or twist the discussion.