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Add ice belts to w-space

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Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2014-10-30 15:55:02 UTC
corbexx wrote:
Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:
WH not intended to be home, therefore it doesn't make it easy to live in one. This is - yet another! - attempt by WH-dwellers to take a firmer grip on the WH "they own", by reducing their exposure to hostile elements.

-1


On a scale of 1 to 10 (you can use 11 if your super mad i guess) how mad would you be if i said i'm pushing hard to get this added to wormholes?

I am in no way mad, though I question now YOUR sanity.
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#62 - 2014-10-30 18:17:02 UTC
Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Ceawlin Cobon-Han wrote:
WH not intended to be home, therefore it doesn't make it easy to live in one. This is - yet another! - attempt by WH-dwellers to take a firmer grip on the WH "they own", by reducing their exposure to hostile elements.

-1


Since you don't seem to have a clue, start by reading this devblog:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/into-the-known-unknowns/?_ga=1.52873704.1308779678.1413270597

Don't be so jelly, kid :)

Since you don't seem to have anything useful to contribute, I read the devblog, hoping it may have the knowledge that appears to have eluded you. I must have missed the part where it extols the virtues of ice in WH-space, and how removing the need for the dwellers to leave their cosy little world would improve the game. Please point it out to me, kid :)


The blog states that CCP has accepted the fact that wormholes are permanently inhabited, and they love it. In other words, they are now treated equally to other parts of space in terms of living.

Please point out how having to haul ice into wormholes improves the game, kid.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#63 - 2014-10-30 18:17:32 UTC
Add comets that randomly spawn in any system (including WHs)

How does it work?

A comet spawns randomly in a system, it has ice as an outer layer, once the ice is gone, it has minerals as a second layer, and when that is gone, a little moon goo as the core. There is a trail of gas that can be mined as well.

The trick is, it moves at 1000 m/s (unless you web it), and particles fall off (so you take damage from the comet itself while mining).

It has to be scanned down to be found.
Sam Spock
The Arnold Connection
#64 - 2014-10-30 20:19:06 UTC
They are adding null sec data and relic sites to w-space right? Add a single ice rock to some of them. Make it a random type. You can get some ice but you won't have any choice as to what it is.

Giving you Inconsistent grammar, speilling and Punct-uation since 1974!
Humang
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#65 - 2014-10-30 22:27:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Humang
Not totally sold on having ice available in WH's, and the reason for this opinion is that I like the reliance that each type of space has on the others. But in saying that I won't say no and deny it to others if they want it.

However as someone that runs/has run a POS in w-space, I certainly will give a big +1 to the idea of a solar-array POS module (with fitting requirements and such) that you anchor to reduce fuel use as an alternative. (restrict it to w-space maybe)

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Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#66 - 2014-10-30 23:00:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Humang wrote:
Not totally sold on having ice available in WH's, and the reason for this opinion is that I like the reliance that each type of space has on the others. But in saying that I won't say no and deny it to others if they want it.

However as someone that runs/has run a POS in w-space, I certainly will give a big +1 to the idea of a solar-array POS module (with fitting requirements and such) that you anchor to reduce fuel use as an alternative. (restrict it to w-space maybe)

Even if you have ice in w-space, you still rely on hisec and lowsec to a certain degree in the same way null does. There are no locally-seeded items like blueprints or skill books, so you'd still have to rely on empire space.

Also an even bigger factor is that there's absolutely nowhere to sell your stuff you pick up locally since there aren't any stations in w-space. That's a BIG factor right there.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#67 - 2014-10-30 23:43:20 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:

Even if you have ice in w-space, you still rely on hisec and lowsec to a certain degree in the same way null does. There are no locally-seeded items like blueprints or skill books, so you'd still have to rely on empire space.

Also an even bigger factor is that there's absolutely nowhere to sell your stuff you pick up locally since there aren't any stations in w-space. That's a BIG factor right there.

Except that is NPC reliance.
Including selling your stuff to the NPC Buy orders.
You become utterly independent from other PLAYERS which is the key interaction point.

And why no Ice in WH's is a good thing. Or at least no reliable Ice. I don't mind a little random spawn that allows people a little fuel block building but not enough to be sustainable. I do mind sustainable living.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#68 - 2014-10-30 23:54:40 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:

Even if you have ice in w-space, you still rely on hisec and lowsec to a certain degree in the same way null does. There are no locally-seeded items like blueprints or skill books, so you'd still have to rely on empire space.

Also an even bigger factor is that there's absolutely nowhere to sell your stuff you pick up locally since there aren't any stations in w-space. That's a BIG factor right there.

Except that is NPC reliance.
Including selling your stuff to the NPC Buy orders.
You become utterly independent from other PLAYERS which is the key interaction point.

And why no Ice in WH's is a good thing. Or at least no reliable Ice. I don't mind a little random spawn that allows people a little fuel block building but not enough to be sustainable. I do mind sustainable living.


Nevyn, dear!
wh-folks would not become self-sufficient since you have no way of trading things unless you come back to known space. Sleeper ships have zero bounty on them so the only way you can make isk, is to go to Jita or Amarr or Dodi, you name it.

And there is this tiny detail that you cannot dock anywhere or get your gear in except you bring it yourself.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#69 - 2014-10-31 03:10:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:

Even if you have ice in w-space, you still rely on hisec and lowsec to a certain degree in the same way null does. There are no locally-seeded items like blueprints or skill books, so you'd still have to rely on empire space.

Also an even bigger factor is that there's absolutely nowhere to sell your stuff you pick up locally since there aren't any stations in w-space. That's a BIG factor right there.

Except that is NPC reliance.
Including selling your stuff to the NPC Buy orders.
You become utterly independent from other PLAYERS which is the key interaction point.

And why no Ice in WH's is a good thing. Or at least no reliable Ice. I don't mind a little random spawn that allows people a little fuel block building but not enough to be sustainable. I do mind sustainable living.

You are never independent from other players because you can't lock the door you shut behind you; even if you close the wormholes that pop up when you're on you can't be on 24 hours a day checking exits and closing them. People WILL come into your hole, and just as no man is an island you are never completely separate from the rest of the players in the game. This is not something that can be disputed.
Humang
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#70 - 2014-10-31 07:17:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Humang
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:

Even if you have ice in w-space, you still rely on hisec and lowsec to a certain degree in the same way null does. There are no locally-seeded items like blueprints or skill books, so you'd still have to rely on empire space.

Also an even bigger factor is that there's absolutely nowhere to sell your stuff you pick up locally since there aren't any stations in w-space. That's a BIG factor right there.

Except that is NPC reliance.
Including selling your stuff to the NPC Buy orders.
You become utterly independent from other PLAYERS which is the key interaction point.

And why no Ice in WH's is a good thing. Or at least no reliable Ice. I don't mind a little random spawn that allows people a little fuel block building but not enough to be sustainable. I do mind sustainable living.

You are never independent from other players because you can't lock the door you shut behind you; even if you close the wormholes that pop up when you're on you can't be on 24 hours a day checking exits and closing them. People WILL come into your hole, and just as no man is an island you are never completely separate from the rest of the players in the game. This is not something that can be disputed.


This isn't about independence in the form of isolation, but from a logistical standpoint.

With the upcoming update of null-quality data and relic sites being available in low class w-space, apart from ice products and moon-goo, all other materials for science&industry would be available within w-space.

If ice was available in w-space, it would open up the possibility for someone to be (granted with a lot if work) able to live logistically entirely off their own means and not need to set foot in k-space,.

To generate isk a person still relies on k-space and that's a given bit with ice available, when generating the materials they need to live, that reliance is no longer essential. Without ice, anyone running a POS must venture back to k-space at some point in time, regardless of skills or numbers.

Add ice and you damage one of the few reliance that w-space imposes on those of us that live here.

However, in saying all that, and for a TL:DR:
I am all for improving the quality-of-life of us w-space dwellers, I just think that it should come at a cost or offer unique Advantages & Disadvantages.

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Humang
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#71 - 2014-10-31 07:18:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Humang
-snip-

Gah, double post, my bad Sad

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Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#72 - 2014-10-31 19:00:15 UTC
Humang wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:

Even if you have ice in w-space, you still rely on hisec and lowsec to a certain degree in the same way null does. There are no locally-seeded items like blueprints or skill books, so you'd still have to rely on empire space.

Also an even bigger factor is that there's absolutely nowhere to sell your stuff you pick up locally since there aren't any stations in w-space. That's a BIG factor right there.

Except that is NPC reliance.
Including selling your stuff to the NPC Buy orders.
You become utterly independent from other PLAYERS which is the key interaction point.

And why no Ice in WH's is a good thing. Or at least no reliable Ice. I don't mind a little random spawn that allows people a little fuel block building but not enough to be sustainable. I do mind sustainable living.

You are never independent from other players because you can't lock the door you shut behind you; even if you close the wormholes that pop up when you're on you can't be on 24 hours a day checking exits and closing them. People WILL come into your hole, and just as no man is an island you are never completely separate from the rest of the players in the game. This is not something that can be disputed.


This isn't about independence in the form of isolation, but from a logistical standpoint.

With the upcoming update of null-quality data and relic sites being available in low class w-space, apart from ice products and moon-goo, all other materials for science&industry would be available within w-space.

If ice was available in w-space, it would open up the possibility for someone to be (granted with a lot if work) able to live logistically entirely off their own means and not need to set foot in k-space,.

To generate isk a person still relies on k-space and that's a given bit with ice available, when generating the materials they need to live, that reliance is no longer essential. Without ice, anyone running a POS must venture back to k-space at some point in time, regardless of skills or numbers.

Add ice and you damage one of the few reliance that w-space imposes on those of us that live here.

However, in saying all that, and for a TL:DR:
I am all for improving the quality-of-life of us w-space dwellers, I just think that it should come at a cost or offer unique Advantages & Disadvantages.


What you're outlining is kind of the point of my thread; wormholers SHOULD be able to independently support their own starbases from the materials they find in the hole, "living off the land" if you will. The point you make is utterly bogus because they HAVE to go back to k-space to sell the stuff they pick up in the hole they want to sell.

Being able to support their own starbases locally from the system they're in doesn't suddenly make everyone a hermit; a big draw of independent living in a lower-class wormhole is having a shifting base of ops to either do pve or pvp from null or other wormholes, and for ALL classes w-space wouldn't be worth living it at all if you couldn't sell all that glorious sleeper loot.

And let's say for argument's sake that you're right and people become hermits and don't venture back into empire space except to occasionally sell a few things. What exactly is the problem? W-space corps that have any interest in pvp tend to pop around in other peoples' holes to run sites and look for fights anyway, so there's content being generated there. The pilots who are entrenched in their hole will defend it more viciously, and gfs will abound while people living there will continue to make pretty decent amounts of income.
Humang
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#73 - 2014-10-31 19:40:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Humang
Yes, I said that people would still need to go to k-space to make isk so that dependency would still be there regardless. Apart from that however, the only other logistical reason to leave is for fuel runs.

But I get what you are saying, you say you should be able to support a POS from materials found in w-space and I think otherwise. I'm not saying its a bad idea, I would love some quality-of-life content, it's just that I would prefer an alternative to just having ice in w-space.

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Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#74 - 2014-11-01 07:50:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Humang wrote:
Yes, I said that people would still need to go to k-space to make isk so that dependency would still be there regardless. Apart from that however, the only other logistical reason to leave is for fuel runs.

But I get what you are saying, you say you should be able to support a POS from materials found in w-space and I think otherwise. I'm not saying its a bad idea, I would love some quality-of-life content, it's just that I would prefer an alternative to just having ice in w-space.

ah ok; so maybe something like moon mining with special moon goo? Comets in space to get ice products and other stuff from? Exploration probes to gather wh data on the other side of a hole?

Or if we're talking specifically about improving usability, the big elephant in the room is the POS code. Can you think of any specific quality of life improvements outside of that that would be significant?
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#75 - 2014-11-02 15:09:36 UTC
Can anyone think of an alternate medium to ice that provides the same products as it for w-space? Something like expanded moon mining, or redux for ice planet yields?
Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#76 - 2014-11-02 17:46:34 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Add comets that randomly spawn in any system (including WHs)

How does it work?

A comet spawns randomly in a system, it has ice as an outer layer, once the ice is gone, it has minerals as a second layer, and when that is gone, a little moon goo as the core. There is a trail of gas that can be mined as well.

The trick is, it moves at 1000 m/s (unless you web it), and particles fall off (so you take damage from the comet itself while mining).

It has to be scanned down to be found.


Using combat probes, Obv.

This idea needs its own thread.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#77 - 2014-11-03 16:05:31 UTC
Scuzzy Logic wrote:
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Add comets that randomly spawn in any system (including WHs)

How does it work?

A comet spawns randomly in a system, it has ice as an outer layer, once the ice is gone, it has minerals as a second layer, and when that is gone, a little moon goo as the core. There is a trail of gas that can be mined as well.

The trick is, it moves at 1000 m/s (unless you web it), and particles fall off (so you take damage from the comet itself while mining).

It has to be scanned down to be found.


Using combat probes, Obv.

This idea needs its own thread.

There's already a popular forum thread for it: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2014-11-03 16:57:47 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
As some people have already mentioned in this thread, we do intentionally set up resources to encourage trade and movement, leaving surpluses and deficits of certain things in different areas of space.

That being said, I think we may be able to make some changes in this particular area in the near future. It probably won't be in the way you expect though. Blink

If ever there was a reason to say "Be careful what you wish for", this is it.
Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#79 - 2014-11-03 19:19:25 UTC
Does this one influence the clock?

Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!
Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#80 - 2014-11-03 19:22:23 UTC
Ringmining.

Ring mining.

Wait, what?


Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!