Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Give me something worth flexing my meagre intellect on and I'll happily oblige

In before your character gets a lifetime vacation!

Since you like insulting us which does reveal some personality traits about you, let me be very clear.

Do not do that ever again.

Was being serious. Leonard nimoy trolleth not.

Look at Planetside 2 : You get more "skillpoints" by killing people and by paying money ... And you know what : It ruins the game, because you have to "farm" kills. First it sucks as an newbie to kill any kill at all, so you can't plan your build .. and all the old guys are farming newbies all day long.. Your idea might seems great at first but I will tell you here and now that this would kill RvB at the spot ... because suddendly it wouldn't be more about good fights .. but just on kills ... and as an new player in Planetside I can't compete with the older guys .. better armor better guns etc . .so I need to be in an super position to take down an older player or he has to be wounded.

In EVE an three month old player can compete with an older player in any niche (exept for capital ships) .. but with 3 months you could sit in an tengu in an high class wormhohle and be useful. Or run lvl 4 missions, outmine most other dudes or whatever ... The longer I play the "broader" my EVE playstile gets .. I'm not better than an newbie ..

Ok, I might have better fitting skills so I might get away with an tighter fit, and with t2 fittings I might have an edge ... But this edge is smaller then ever other game I have played in my live . . (exept for games were no progression is .. like pong or so ) This is the reason why you have this "insta lvl xxxx" in most games .. to get the people to the level were they are usefull. In EVE I will gladly invite an tackle newbie anytime of the day in my fleet because I know that he is at least marginal usefull. In other games I would kick an newbie because he would hinder my ability to lead my team to an victory ...

I have already given enough supporting argument to prove it is viable, most of you are using the claim my mind is made up when in fact you simply say it is a bad idea without any supporting argument, or you just say no or that I am a Troll.

Its more than viable, its a proven way (Other games) to keep people playing and coming back.

This isn't the hypocrisy fallacy, because any argument with good reasoning I have countered, with specific replies. Only posts with one line, just "no" are you are "troll" are ignored.

Ill leave you some quotes from another thread that will Answer any other concerns that have brought up from the RvB Forums.

http://rvbeve.com/forums/index.php/topic/8587-dynamic-skill-point-rewards-for-pvp-activities/
On and Concerning: Rushing into ships or lacking game knowledge
"Your assuming people that play eve aren't that smart, grinding isk in eve is very easy and buying it is too. Like above too the total amount of awarded sp isnt that much for any possible situation so your example is an extreme unlikely hood. Even if it did somehow happen, someone pvping so much that they were able to train the battleship skill in under 3-4 (random examples) days, the circumstances of how they pvped to get that much sp suggests they would PROBABLY know what they were doing. And if they weren't, oh well, you lose a ship you learn a lesson.

With the amount of ships, skills and activities in eve, it would take them along time to pvp enough to get into anything big like a super (probably at least 5 months of hardcore grinding) so if some people did burn out or get bored, there is still the relatively passive skill training time to keep people coming back if they want to take a break."

On and Concerning the system forcing pvp style when there are other activities:
"This suggestion is to increase activity in pvp and increase total number of active players, CCP wants eve to be different, THATS FINE, so this suggestion still makes eve different than other mmos by not allowing sp reward for pve activities yet allows the more interested and hardcore players to be allowed faster progression if they so chose to be that involved.

also don't forget the total amount of sp rewarded for even the most unlikely of situations is still in the grand totality of eve sp, very small.

On the matter of abuse by alts: The equations are done in such a way that for any alt to abuse this system would require them blowing up extremely expensive ships VERY often, and having the killing character be very young in relationship. therefore, who really cares if someone wants to blow 100 bil on a titan lose to a 2 mil sp frigate pilot. IT is still removing items from the game, creating more market movement and decrease inflation by those people removing ships and modules from the game faster."

On and concerning: Value of Industry vs science vs pvp skill points
"The equations could and should factor in sp type and what ship, for example, a high skilled frigate pilot killing a low skilled industry ship solo wouldn't yield much Skill points, however a low skill frigate pilot killing a high skill point freighter pilot would net more sp than the base amount. The system is designed to reward pilots winning in position which they shouldn't or is very unlikely to. For example a 80 mil skill point pilot in a pvp fit industry ship killing a 80 mil pilot in a frigate would net ALOT more sp to the indy pilot, because its extremely rare for an industry ship to kill anything. Also MOST people forget in this suggestion the base amount of sp to be entered into the equation is very small (50-100) so in any situation the total amount of sp being rewarded EVEN IN THE MOST UNLIKELY of a winning situation for the any pilot really wouldn't be that much. Say 100 base + a factor of X10 (out of the final equation) for EXTREMELY unlikely win against the odds, would only be a net 1000+ (100 base Times 10) sp, which in the grand total of all skills in eve, REALLY ISNT MUCH."

On and concerning the balancing of Cynos into high sec:
" I think you misunderstand what i intended about Cynos, caps still wouldn't be allowed into high sec by fleets could be titan bridged, however only at extreme costs to security status, (alot more than a normal concord offense), as mentioned GCC for the bridger, GCC for the cynoer, and GCC, and isk cost, one suggestion I made is that the fuel costs would increase depending on the bridge into what sec system, E.G. Double bridge cost to cyno into 1.0 or somethin like 20% more to cyno into a .5, would be linear.

One other balancing factor:
Perhaps a T3 Cyno module requiring Cyno level 5 that can only be used in high sec, has more fuel cost, higher fitting need, takes a long time to research and has significantly more material requirements than T2 cyno.

One final suggestion to balance cyno into high sec, is just like you can go above +5 sec status (Special missions), NOW you can go below -10 sec status through cynoing into high sec, this would be the only way you could go LOWER than -10, without limit to this negative number, that character would take a very long time to repair.

The reason why this would create more shuffle in eve is that it would force carebears to be more aware, and use pvp like modules such as scan inhibitor and cyno inhibitor. (Thus learning more about the game towards pvp)"

On and concerning: Burning out and people leaving because you can buy your wins:
Already established:
1. You do not have to use this system, static skill training still exists
2. Diminishing returns of equation: New players would benefit the most early on but older player would have alot more willing targets to kill.
3. Having the compulsion to grind in this fashion (Excessively) is more a personnel issue and not a game problem, also see diminishing returns.
4. Sp per kill is relatively small compared to total eve sp.

if it such a bad idea, post a modification.

We have stated specific reasons why this idea is really bad.
Planet Side 2 as mentioned serves as an excellent point on how and why paying for skills or grinding for skills is such a bad idea. CCP's own game Dust 514 is yet another example of how this is a really bad idea so here goes.

I started playing Planet Side 2 hours after it was released almost a year ago. With my restricted game time and my unwillingness to spend CASH to improve my character I have achieved the lofty battle rank of 65 and I am still essentially using the free weapons that I started with. I got a friend of mine hooked on Planet Side 4 months ago and due to the extra game time he has available and the CASH money he spends to buy experience boosters he is already a battle rank 195. Combine that with his willingness to spend CASH to buy the best weapons in the game and his character is light years ahead. In fact if he quit playing today and I maintained my average game time per week it would take me more than 3 years to catch. This is exactly the situation that EVE's skills system prevents and it is precisely why most EVE players DO NOT want it changed. Check out DUST 514, while the specifics of it are somewhat different than Planet Side it also suffers from the problems inherent in a grind/pay for skills game.

In contrast to this my son and I started playing EVE at the same time almost 5 years ago. Both of us have kept our accounts active and used each other to insure that our characters are always training the next skill in the list. And so here we are almost 5 years later and our characters for all practical purposed have the same number of skill points and so they have the same basic abilities and this despite the fact that my son averages about 4 hours more EVE game time every week than I do. It is this balance of skills based on time spent actually training them in real time that appeals to most EVE players. And it serves as a balancing tool between those with a few hours a week to play and those that have a few hours every day.

I see nothing in your proposal that balances the skills in this game the same way that the current system does.

I still say NO to your ideas.

This isn't/nor will it ever be a Threadanaught. It's a silly outlandish idea, which are fun to concept and throw around. But sounding arrogant isn't going to help win any favors with it.
Hi-sec cynos? Well why? If you appear next to a mission runner with your suspect timer and sec hit, all he has to do is ignore you or let you suicide gank. In which case, why not just old fashioned suicide gank?

Dynamic Hardcore PVP reward system? Too easy to game and break the system. Or too complex and difficult to balance properly.