These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Skill Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Mechanics vs Hull Upgrades
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ghost Rider Graziano
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-10-23 22:02:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghost Rider Graziano
Ok all, I've got a suggestion for Features and Ideas but before I post there, I want to make sure I'm not forgetting anything.

Right now, we have a basic hull skill and a basic armor skill. First issue: The naming is confusing. See descriptions:

Mechanics l: 5% bonus to Hull HP / level

Hull Upgrades: 5% bonus to Armor HP / level

So what's wrong with this picture? Note the word 'Hull' in the armor skill, the lack of the word 'Armor' in the armor skill, and lack of the word 'Hull' in the hull skill. This is not intuitive.

I'm suggesting that we rename these skills to fit with their function. Off the top of my head:

Rename 'Mechanics' to 'Hull Upgrades' (5% bonus to Hull HP / level)

Rename 'Hull Upgrades' to 'Armor Upgrades' (5% bonus to Armor HP / level)

Result: These basic skills would be simply named according to their function (like other 'basic' skills)

Second issue: These skills of course correlate to the operation of modules. However, the modules controlled by each skill is neither consistent nor intuitive. Example:

The Armor Skill (currently Hull Upgrades) is required for Plates, Hardeners, Membranes, Plating and DCUs. That's good - those are armor modules.

The bad part: This skill is also required for Overdrives, Inertial Stabs and Nanofibers. Those modules are not armor related - they modify speed, cargo space, and hull HP. Those modules should be moved to the Hull Skill, as those are all attributes of a ship's hull. To top it off: Armor Repper's are not on this Armor Skill list.

Now for the Hull Skill (currently Mechanics). Aside from the 'basic' modules (and variants), this skill only allows usage of the Hull Repper and Armor Repper. Seems like a rather small list, especially since the Armor repper should be with the Armor skill. If we add in the modules that don't fit the Armor skill, we have a much more balanced set of skills vs modules.

What do you think folks? Am I missing anything?
Kamahl Daikun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-10-23 22:20:34 UTC
Ghost Rider Graziano wrote:

The bad part: This skill is also required for Overdrives, Inertial Stabs and Nanofibers. Those modules are not armor related - they modify speed, cargo space, and hull HP. Those modules should be moved to the Hull Skill, as those are all attributes of a ship's hull. To top it off: Armor Repper's are not on this Armor Skill list.


There's a reason you can't achieve warp speed in a Kleenex Box.
Ghost Rider Graziano
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-10-23 22:24:43 UTC
Kamahl Daikun wrote:
Ghost Rider Graziano wrote:

The bad part: This skill is also required for Overdrives, Inertial Stabs and Nanofibers. Those modules are not armor related - they modify speed, cargo space, and hull HP. Those modules should be moved to the Hull Skill, as those are all attributes of a ship's hull. To top it off: Armor Repper's are not on this Armor Skill list.


There's a reason you can't achieve warp speed in a Kleenex Box.



Your post is quite vague, so I will guess at your meaning. If you are inferring that I am suggesting we change any attributes or mechanics currently in place, let me clarify: I do not want to change anything other than skill names and which skill a couple of modules are dependent on.
Kamahl Daikun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-10-23 22:40:44 UTC
Ghost Rider Graziano wrote:
Kamahl Daikun wrote:
Ghost Rider Graziano wrote:

The bad part: This skill is also required for Overdrives, Inertial Stabs and Nanofibers. Those modules are not armor related - they modify speed, cargo space, and hull HP. Those modules should be moved to the Hull Skill, as those are all attributes of a ship's hull. To top it off: Armor Repper's are not on this Armor Skill list.


There's a reason you can't achieve warp speed in a Kleenex Box.



Your post is quite vague, so I will guess at your meaning. If you are inferring that I am suggesting we change any attributes or mechanics currently in place, let me clarify: I do not want to change anything other than skill names and which skill a couple of modules are dependent on.


Actually I was getting at the fact that your vessel needs structural integrity in order to achieve certain speeds, even in space.
So having Hull Upgrades affect speed mods is kind of keeping with the science of space travel.

The reason a Kleenex Box doesn't achieve warp is because it has no structural integrity. Accelerating to a few hundred kilometers per second isn't that difficult but when you're traveling at several million kilometers per second, your ship has to withstand the strain of that kind of acceleration and deceleration.

So tl;dr it's scientifically accurate. Although I do agree with the name changes.
Ghost Rider Graziano
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-10-23 23:07:18 UTC
Kamahl Daikun wrote:
Ghost Rider Graziano wrote:
Kamahl Daikun wrote:
Ghost Rider Graziano wrote:

The bad part: This skill is also required for Overdrives, Inertial Stabs and Nanofibers. Those modules are not armor related - they modify speed, cargo space, and hull HP. Those modules should be moved to the Hull Skill, as those are all attributes of a ship's hull. To top it off: Armor Repper's are not on this Armor Skill list.


There's a reason you can't achieve warp speed in a Kleenex Box.



Your post is quite vague, so I will guess at your meaning. If you are inferring that I am suggesting we change any attributes or mechanics currently in place, let me clarify: I do not want to change anything other than skill names and which skill a couple of modules are dependent on.


Actually I was getting at the fact that your vessel needs structural integrity in order to achieve certain speeds, even in space.
So having Hull Upgrades affect speed mods is kind of keeping with the science of space travel.

The reason a Kleenex Box doesn't achieve warp is because it has no structural integrity. Accelerating to a few hundred kilometers per second isn't that difficult but when you're traveling at several million kilometers per second, your ship has to withstand the strain of that kind of acceleration and deceleration.

So tl;dr it's scientifically accurate. Although I do agree with the name changes.



I agree, the Hull Upgrades skill should affect the speed mods. That fits with both of my suggestions. Sorry, I was assuming you were disagreeing with me. :/ Guess I'm used to trolls...
Lugh Crow-Slave
#6 - 2014-11-19 11:21:02 UTC
only skill i would sorta agree with changing the name of is hull to armor however mechanics still makes sense for hull integrity and the skill is used in manufacturing as well as a prerec for many mechanical based skills.

and even then not so much as many of what the hull upgrades skill unlocks has to do with the hull.




as for changing recs from modules based on a naming convention, no this could cause problems with people who currently use modules but don't have the opposite skill trained up

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-11-19 19:06:48 UTC
Yes you are missing something. The 2 skills while having +hull/armor % are not defined by that part of their bonus. Think of that as extra.

Hull Upgrades: Think of what you can do with your ships hull, make it stronger, faster, more agile. So this impacts modules you attach to your ships hull. So cargo mods and mobility mods make sense as well as armor plates and armor mods, since they are part of your ships hull.

Mechanics: Think of what being a skilled mechanic means. You can fix things faster and more efficiently. So armor and hull reps fit here. Skilled mechanics usually have a measure of construction, engineering ability, and can rig/modify things. So the Mechanics skill is a logical prerequisite for rigging, repair, construction, and engineering skills.

When you look at it this way, changing the names would be more confusing than leaving them alone.