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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Moar battleships.

Author
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
#21 - 2014-10-24 18:13:19 UTC
Bullet Therapist wrote:
I'd like to see baseline battleships made more useful before new ships are made. Maybe make bastion module usable by any BS hull, and while they're at it re-do the marauders into extentions of the assault frigate/HAC line. I'd love to see a khanid battleship. Big smile



If you wanna discuss Battleships and the supposed semi rarity or usefullness, the core problem is COST

Cost to fly and cost to manufacture i see are the biggest blocks in seeing more battleships in pvp environment. Yea, the mission runners will be useing them alot, but they dont loose ships all that often and tend to focus on specific ships for that.

From an industrial point of view. I can manufacture 400 to 500ish frigates for what it takes to make 1 battleship. And make decent profit as well. That, in my opinion, is one of the bigger bottlenecks in me produceing battlecruiser and battleship sized ships. I will continue to mass produce frigates and destroyers and limited cruiser lines. Will only make battlecruiser+ by special request from friends.

Just looking at Tritanium requirement
Kestrel = 15,681 tritanium
Raven = 9,356,854 tritanium

Thats 596 Kestrels for 1 raven,
Kestrels sell for 300k give or take,
Raven sell for 150m give or take

Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2014-10-24 18:41:08 UTC
No.

Why? Because I'm doing alright in my Paladin which took me 120 days to train for, and it's large t2 guns 70 days and 20 days for it's armor ^_^
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#23 - 2014-10-25 02:43:44 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
the cockatrice has 20 slots, and more dps and tank than god...

fly caldari much?


I keep hearing that battleships aren't worth it in PVP. In general, those numbers were pulled from a rokh and mildly tweaked, and while it has the slots, it doesn't have the CPU to fill all those slots base, with a lower CPU to slot ratio than almost any other caldari ship, while using launchers which are CPU heavier than turrets for both the launchers and the BCS, and also the tank.

That said, I'm probably going to tweak it slightly as feedback comes in.


well drop a slot at least then. All non-drone boat T1 BS's have 19 slots.
but really, comparing that cockatrice to the raven, why fly a raven? for the utility mid? What?

it also has enough CPU with a single Co processor for
8 T2 torp launchers,
3 BCS,
an X-large anc shield booster,
2x invuln fields,
a T2 long point
a T2 web
a T2 damage control
a meta 100mn MWD

and still has a spare low that could fit a 4th BCS if i wasnt being stupid with my mid slots or, christ, fit with cruise launchers.

Counter proposal Cockatrice: (not my actual proposal for a new BS, but merely a suggestion to not **** all over the raven so much)

Combat BS
8/6/5 8/4

5% kinetic damage to torps, cruise and heavy missiles
5% reduction missile explosion radius

P.S. battleships get used in station camp PvP. i guess they dont get used else where because of a combination of mobility, resist profile and damage application issues.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#24 - 2014-10-25 02:59:08 UTC
Gunrunner1775 wrote:


Just looking at Tritanium requirement
Kestrel = 15,681 tritanium
Raven = 9,356,854 tritanium

Thats 596 Kestrels for 1 raven,
Kestrels sell for 300k give or take,
Raven sell for 150m give or take



what you've done there is look at one mineral...there are seven and the proportion of trit compared to other minerals does not scale proportionally with size.

a Kestrel is <65% trit
a Raven is 75% trit

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#25 - 2014-10-25 03:43:30 UTC
Cockatrice nerfed somewhat (have not changed bonuses, I am happy with the damage, especially as it will suffer more from overkill in PvE and inability to switch targets as well in PvP) and added the Dervish, the minmatar Ewar battleship proposal, focusing on webs and paints, with the possibility of 6 unbonused lauchers or 5 unbonused turrets and a heavy ewar load.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
#26 - 2014-10-25 04:39:52 UTC
yea, i used tritanium, but fact still remains i can build 500+ kestrel for what takes to build 1 raven
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#27 - 2014-10-25 05:09:21 UTC
Gunrunner1775 wrote:
yea, i used tritanium, but fact still remains i can build 500+ kestrel for what takes to build 1 raven

And with the right fit, I can kill all 500 of them at once. Price is not the only balancing factor.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2014-10-25 08:03:05 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:


Scorpion (need to have STRONGER ECM Than falcon, not the toher way around. THe falcon already have the cloak as advantage



It's not only about the strength of the ECM, it's also about the range you can jam from, which the scorpion is far superior for.

Perfect skills before modules
Falcon - 43+48 optimal/falloff
Scorpion - 97+108 optimal/falloff

EDIT: This means at 91 km, the falcon has an effective jam strength of 5.625 vs the scorpions 7.875

Cloaks and ECM strength is great, but once you get on grid, if you cannot stay on grid because you get primaried, you are not doing your fleet a whole lot of good.



Completely irrelevant (well almsot irrelevant) on modern eve battlefield. You are NOT safe from lots of firepower and sicne youa re not mobile a falcon has more chance to keep 50 km range than the scorpion.

When was the last time you saw scorpiuons beign used by the side that did not lose?


THey are horrible right now. Just get a single mega in your fleet with a EcCm and a MJD and get on top of the scorpion and obliterate it. IT will nto escape and the scorpion fleet lost a ship for NOTHING.. in SECONDS.

Mobility and cloack are FAR FAR more powerful than 50 km more optimal.... So the falcon woudl still be better if both had SAME ecm strneght.


But in the case of boasting something resembling a tank or being a one shot wonder, the scorpion is great. dropping one with an ECM burst into the heart of a fleet which is trying to evac is great for breaking large sections of the tackle, they can hold down more t1 targets easily, etc.



You realize how dumb sounds to waste the ships bonuses for only 1 of them work? Scorpoin needs tohave at least same ECMstr than falcon. The falconitself isbearely used nowadays.

Therarest battleships insmaller scale combat ( I do nto care for blobs, on those the battleshisp do not need a role, they need ehp and damage projectiononly) the rarest battleships are the scoprion , tempest and abaddon. The tempest shoudl simply get a 7th turret if it sso hard for ccp to even listen one fo the severalgreat options the communitybrouht up.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

eliminator2
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-10-25 10:08:06 UTC
the only thing i want to see is caldari getting a "decent" missiles t1 battleship that can hold its own in fights


not hybird and shield
not projectile and shield
not laser and shield
missiles and shield thats good

James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#30 - 2014-10-25 18:42:03 UTC
eliminator2 wrote:
the only thing i want to see is caldari getting a "decent" missiles t1 battleship that can hold its own in fights


not hybird and shield
not projectile and shield
not laser and shield
missiles and shield thats good



Take a look at the cockatrice proposal. It ends up with slightly more DPS than a raven as well as tank similar to, if not better than a rokh, and is missiles and shields as a combat battleship.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

eliminator2
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-10-25 21:04:53 UTC  |  Edited by: eliminator2
James Baboli wrote:
eliminator2 wrote:
the only thing i want to see is caldari getting a "decent" missiles t1 battleship that can hold its own in fights


not hybird and shield
not projectile and shield
not laser and shield
missiles and shield thats good



Take a look at the cockatrice proposal. It ends up with slightly more DPS than a raven as well as tank similar to, if not better than a rokh, and is missiles and shields as a combat battleship.



6 med slots isnt really enough for a shield tanked missile ship to be ablt to fit a decent tank + point, webs/TP and prop mods etc etc

and id rather not fly a ship that people on other side shout "look guys a **** is on its way"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2014-10-25 21:23:14 UTC
eliminator2 wrote:
James Baboli wrote:
eliminator2 wrote:
the only thing i want to see is caldari getting a "decent" missiles t1 battleship that can hold its own in fights


not hybird and shield
not projectile and shield
not laser and shield
missiles and shield thats good



Take a look at the cockatrice proposal. It ends up with slightly more DPS than a raven as well as tank similar to, if not better than a rokh, and is missiles and shields as a combat battleship.



6 med slots isnt really enough for a shield tanked missile ship to be ablt to fit a decent tank + point, webs/TP and prop mods etc etc

and id rather not fly a ship that people on other side shout "look guys a **** is on its way"


Plenty of ships use a three slot tank, if you want more then you are going to have to think about either making sacrifices or using the raven with a tackle buddy.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#33 - 2014-10-25 21:36:20 UTC
eliminator2 wrote:



6 med slots isnt really enough for a shield tanked missile ship to be ablt to fit a decent tank + point, webs/TP and prop mods etc etc

and id rather not fly a ship that people on other side shout "look guys a **** is on its way"


so you only flew rattlers before the raven got 7 slots?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

eliminator2
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-10-25 21:43:51 UTC
if im honest if i was to make a new shield and misile ship id like to make it RHML based rather than torp or cruise use


Cockatrice:

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
-3 seconds to reload of rapid heavy missiles (making it 20 second reload at lv5)
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage

(if i where to make it faction id add this)
Minmatar battleship Skill Bonuses:
7.5% bonus to shield rep amount


Slot layout: 7H, 7M, 4L (-1); 0 turrets , 6 launchers
Fittings: 12,000 PGU / 850 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8300 / 6000 / 7500
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500 / 1087s / 5.06
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 102 / .152 / 105300000 / 19.85s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 90km / 90 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 475

Background:
This ship designed secretly by the caldari ship engineers was designed to be a anti-cruiser/frig battleship to help out the other battleships in a fleet. Its role was to hide among the other fleet memebers until the enemy forces got under the tracking of the battleships entering the battleships formation, the frigates and cruiser would then be met with a devastating volley from these support rolled battleship giving the friendly cruiser and frigates the chance to chase down other enemies on field. It was then halted as all research went to making the T3 cruisers and destroys.


Background 2 (for minmatar add on) :
the minmatar and caldari engineers never worked together but a hint emerged that hidden defects of engineers from both caldari and minmatar started working together to design a powerful ship to combat the ever rising of the heavy assault cruisers and frigates changing the battleship into a truly frightening powerhouse. Sadly as the blueprints where finnished a space anomaly accorded destroying the outpost leaving a site that was banned entering and protected by hired merc's the site was named "natari anomaly" some say you can find them in low-security space as Data sites.



eliminator2
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-10-25 21:45:51 UTC  |  Edited by: eliminator2
Daichi Yamato wrote:
eliminator2 wrote:



6 med slots isnt really enough for a shield tanked missile ship to be ablt to fit a decent tank + point, webs/TP and prop mods etc etc

and id rather not fly a ship that people on other side shout "look guys a **** is on its way"


so you only flew rattlers before the raven got 7 slots?



didnt fly either of them actually :D

but i tryed the raven a few times and seemed to be lacking i couldnt fit propulosion TP and scrams etc with a good tank but if i wanted a good tank id have to sacrafice alot of EWAR meaning my missiles wouldnt hit anything really :/
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#36 - 2014-10-25 22:00:58 UTC
well i said it because the entire rest of the community has been managing with 5 and 6 slots for about 10 years...that was all really lol.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

eliminator2
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-10-25 22:02:29 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
well i said it because the entire rest of the community has been managing with 5 and 6 slots for about 10 years...that was all really lol.


rest as in PVE for PVP it isnt that great and for managing with them for PVP its more like they ignored them and went to other shield ships
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#38 - 2014-10-25 22:04:28 UTC
no dude, but never mind kinda de-railing.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

eliminator2
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-10-25 22:12:21 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
no dude, but never mind kinda de-railing.



yeah i true i apoligize for de-railing threahd
Viribus
Bayraktar Warlord
Aurora. Australis
#40 - 2014-10-25 23:44:02 UTC
how about we make the current battleships viable first