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tier3 battlecruiser concerns

Author
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#21 - 2011-11-27 10:28:19 UTC
wiersma wrote:
I have been getting a bit concerned about the new battlecruisers going to be introduced in crucible.
Mainly my concern is these ships pack quite a punch and i am afraid they are going to be used to gank miners all over eve.
I have tested this on sisi and one tier 3 battle cruiser can destroy a hulk in a few seconds. And i did not even use faction ammo. or t2 guns..

So I think the miners are going to be the big loosers in this new expansion.

Hooray! We can finally start taking out those botters up in empire space.

Seriously all the minerals in this game are produced nearly risk free in highsec by one of two kinds of players:

1. Robots

2. Unemployed neckbeards who spend 15 hours a day multiboxing 10 accounts in hulks eating belts in empire space.

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544

wiersma
Space Bacteria Research
#22 - 2011-11-27 16:28:02 UTC  |  Edited by: wiersma
Wolodymyr wrote:
wiersma wrote:
I have been getting a bit concerned about the new battlecruisers going to be introduced in crucible.
Mainly my concern is these ships pack quite a punch and i am afraid they are going to be used to gank miners all over eve.
I have tested this on sisi and one tier 3 battle cruiser can destroy a hulk in a few seconds. And i did not even use faction ammo. or t2 guns..

So I think the miners are going to be the big loosers in this new expansion.

Hooray! We can finally start taking out those botters up in empire space.

Seriously all the minerals in this game are produced nearly risk free in highsec by one of two kinds of players:

1. Robots

2. Unemployed neckbeards who spend 15 hours a day multiboxing 10 accounts in hulks eating belts in empire space.



And you are a real moron asuming just the second option

What about disabled people that cant do much more then play games. ? or people that just suck at PVP and still like eve ?
and for number one i agree bots are wrong..

back to topic now.

I will guess what will hapen when us "carebears" go mining in low sec? yeah right The worst scum in eve live in low sec..
the post was not intended as a whine. but more to get CCP to see they created an inbalance in the game.

Its just to easy to gank someone in highsec. It will most probablu ruin the game for new players that mined like mad and finaly got that hulk/covetor.

Yippieee i got my hulk and can only just fly it.. then some dork decides its funny to gank that noob.. noob goes rage and quits to play SWTOR
Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2011-11-27 16:29:29 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:


EvE is a PvP game. Remember that.



Exactly :)

The question is ... is it ONLY a PvP game --> should non PvP'rs really be reviled and shunned by even the designers?

For now, I guess the answer is known (ganking is the new solution) .... it's probably a pendulum effect (i.e.-please the gankers this time around .... look at the followon effects .... react and re-tweak).


Will the T3 BC's be expensive? Will they require any T3 or T2 components, and will their BPO's be commonly available or will they require LP's, etc.?

I'm guessing from the noise so far they will be normal T1 mfg items, but haven't seen the bpo details to tell ...





wiersma
Space Bacteria Research
#24 - 2011-11-27 16:42:08 UTC
Takara Mora wrote:
[quote=Danika Princip]

EvE is a PvP game. Remember that.



So if eve is a PVP game why are there a **** load of missions to do solo or with friends ?
EVE is both PVP and PVE and player and friends versus enviorment.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#25 - 2011-11-27 16:55:52 UTC
Takara Mora wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:


EvE is a PvP game. Remember that.



Exactly :)

The question is ... is it ONLY a PvP game --> should non PvP'rs really be reviled and shunned by even the designers?

For now, I guess the answer is known (ganking is the new solution) .... it's probably a pendulum effect (i.e.-please the gankers this time around .... look at the followon effects .... react and re-tweak).


Will the T3 BC's be expensive? Will they require any T3 or T2 components, and will their BPO's be commonly available or will they require LP's, etc.?

I'm guessing from the noise so far they will be normal T1 mfg items, but haven't seen the bpo details to tell ...



No, EvE is not "only" PvP (there is ship spinning Lol). However, the vast majority of gameplay is actually PvP to some degree ... and anything you or I or that guy over there does can and will affect someone else at some point. The non-combat people who think the devs are shunning them (i.e. the carebears) have the necessary tools to know someone's coming, and be able to GTFO. They even have the tools to not be "quite" as easy to gank (note, it's still really easy as I mentioned above) -- but making myself harder to gank means that I'm not mining as much...

The new battlecruisers are TIER THREE (TECH ONE), not TECH THREE. Just like all the other T1 shipe, they need various quantities of Isogen, Megacyte, Mexallon, Nocxiun, Pyerite, Tritanium, and Zydrine ...

The precise (well, close enough -- they'll likely get ninja tweaked just before the patch) mineral quantities are available on SISI, and some sites do pull the SISI build info already. Price-wise, they're going to be "expensive" for the first few months since Demand >>>>>>>>> Supply.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2011-11-27 17:26:33 UTC
wiersma wrote:
Takara Mora wrote:
[quote=Danika Princip]

EvE is a PvP game. Remember that.


So if eve is a PVP game why are there a **** load of missions to do solo or with friends ?
EVE is both PVP and PVE and player and friends versus enviorment.



It's depressing for us more solo players, but yeah, from the looks of it, it seems they are swinging away from Solo content atm and trying to encourage ppl to join into larger groups/corps/alliances (even for PVE - ala Incursions), or at least force them into solo PVP (ganking I guess is very much a good thing in their eyes?) --> i.e. - maybe they think the game is too boring, and there are problems with mudflation (though they've supposedly just added to it with Incursions), so they are trying to instigate more conflict and destruction and make it harder to produce base commodities (mining, ice harvesting, etc.) .... maybe they also figure, Bots don't run in fleets, so the way to combat botting, is to combat solo play ....

Personally I don't like it ... but it kinda seems that this is the new age dawning ---> there are lots of ppl who think these things will be an improvement .... some even say the best way to retain new players is to force them to join larger corps, etc., where they can be better supported and won't be as apt to leave the game.

The Goonswarm wing of the CSM, also seems to have a complete and utter disdain for any solo play other than ganking, and that pretty much the only ppl who run missions or mine are botters (or at least that's their political cover story). Who knows, they may have their own bot fleets running 24x7 in their home systems -- that would be totally classic goon shenanigans wouldn't it? Anyway, tough to be them ...once you've beaten every other aspect of the game though, what's left other than to beat CCP itself? :)
Velicitia
XS Tech
#27 - 2011-11-27 18:14:04 UTC
you can solo PvP outside of ganking ... it's just "hard" (mostly because the other guy probably has friends).

Don't get me wrong ... there are some days where I actually enjoy it being quiet in corpchat... but overall, solo play is probably the one truly "wrong" way to go about playing EVE.

I'm looking at the new changes, and rather than thinking "oh great, now I can't mine because of Tornado" ... I'm working with my corpies to come up with ways to deal with it. I've engaged some of the local corps to see if we're aligned in our views ... not to bring them into our fold or anything ... but to simply not be surrounded by neutrals.

Yeah, I'll own that I'm generally disdainful of the small corporations that are always on at the same time ... but it's because these small corps are so apt to get in the mindset that they aren't affecting anyone and generally want to see the game go to hell (i.e. "I want a PVE only flag!" or similar).

If being in your 5-10 man corp works for you ... then it works for you.... but don't expect any special treatment because you want to be a "little guy".

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-11-27 22:40:46 UTC
Hey guys, isn't it already easy to gank a Hulk in Hisec in a Hurricane? ... If so, no reason to use these the T3 BC's for that actually (assuming they will be more expensive .... but maybe that's not a good assumption?)
Goose99
#29 - 2011-11-27 23:44:07 UTC
Takara Mora wrote:
Hey guys, isn't it already easy to gank a Hulk in Hisec in a Hurricane? ... If so, no reason to use these the T3 BC's for that actually (assuming they will be more expensive .... but maybe that's not a good assumption?)


Good god, who ganks in a cane? Brutix is cheaper and better. (Yay, Gallante pvpLol) And tomorrow, catalyst will have 900 dps overheated (no, you won't need those guns later). I know what I'm using for the next HulkagaddonCool.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#30 - 2011-11-27 23:45:21 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
If shooting carebears is PvP then throwing dynamite into a pond must count as fishing.


It does.

What part of player versus player do you not understand?

Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#31 - 2011-11-27 23:47:30 UTC
wiersma wrote:
Takara Mora wrote:
[quote=Danika Princip]

EvE is a PvP game. Remember that.



So if eve is a PVP game why are there a **** load of missions to do solo or with friends ?
EVE is both PVP and PVE and player and friends versus enviorment.


There is PVE to fuel the PVP. Note how a lot of PvE can actually be interpreted as PvP (ninja salvaging, exploration racing, incursion fleets, etc).

Its just a different form of player versus player.

Sorry but, Eve is and always has been a PvP centered game. Its why there is no instancing.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#32 - 2011-11-28 00:11:20 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Takara Mora wrote:
Hey guys, isn't it already easy to gank a Hulk in Hisec in a Hurricane? ... If so, no reason to use these the T3 BC's for that actually (assuming they will be more expensive .... but maybe that's not a good assumption?)


Good god, who ganks in a cane? Brutix is cheaper and better. (Yay, Gallante pvpLol) And tomorrow, catalyst will have 900 dps overheated (no, you won't need those guns later). I know what I'm using for the next HulkagaddonCool.


and the new BCs will one-shot a hulk...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#33 - 2011-11-28 01:55:39 UTC
wiersma wrote:
What about disabled people that cant do much more then play games. ?

Now you made me feel sad for making fun of someone with no arms and no legs who has to play eve with his tongue.

Just based on probability the person who goes out mining two to three times a week for 2 hours a day will probably not attract a lot of attention from gankers. The 15 multiboxed hulks eating all the belts in one system 23/7 is what attracts gankers.

Seriously every time I have shot at miners in highsec it's always bots that I run into.

They never safe up after people's warnings (and our witty comments) in local.

They never freak out when half a dozen destroyers warp in on them in a belt.

There are always 10 of them methodically chewing through the same belts in the same system all day every day in a predictable pattern.

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544

wiersma
Space Bacteria Research
#34 - 2011-11-28 11:09:25 UTC
True Bot are a serious problem. and eve is pvp centered. But there are enough players that like eve and do not want to go to war
for every fart that came out sideways.

I still think when tier 3 BC prices level of at about 40 to 50 miljon isk. they are pretty darn cheap hulk gankers.
and that 900 DPS for the gallente catalyst is for the same reason a gank ship.

I think CCP is trying to get rid of bot miners at the expense of real players thus creating an inbalance in the game.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-11-28 14:40:17 UTC
I think if CCP wants to get rid of bot miners there are easier ways to do it.

CCP can simply flag an account that they have verified as a bot account so that CONCORD does not come to their rescue if ganked. Make this flag visible to all players.

CCP wins as they do not lose the money from that account until the owner unsubs on their own.
The gankers win because now they get free juicy targets.
The player wins because bots are now cut down by the players for the players.
The botters lose, thus everybody else wins.

Yes there would be room for error on CCPs part in flagging accounts. This is what petitioning is for. CCP knows who the botters are anyway. It would be very hard to make a mistake in this regard.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#36 - 2011-11-28 15:39:59 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
If shooting carebears is PvP then throwing dynamite into a pond must count as fishing.


And a pretty damn cool way to fish too. Makes me wish u could use bombs in highsec.

StukaBee
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2011-11-28 16:05:12 UTC
Takara Mora wrote:

The Goonswarm wing of the CSM, also seems to have a complete and utter disdain for any solo play other than ganking, and that pretty much the only ppl who run missions or mine are botters (or at least that's their political cover story). Who knows, they may have their own bot fleets running 24x7 in their home systems -- that would be totally classic goon shenanigans wouldn't it?


If we were botting why would we be running bots in our own systems when its safer and more profitable to put them into NPC corps and run highsec L4s?
Nekopyat
Nee-Co
#38 - 2011-11-28 19:52:44 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Don't get me wrong ... there are some days where I actually enjoy it being quiet in corpchat... but overall, solo play is probably the one truly "wrong" way to go about playing EVE.


While sometimes I think the devs think it would be sexier if it were not the case, I think on the whole I disagree. Solo play is a fairly big part of EvE and is one of the reasons it has done so well. It had a place for players who just want to pop on for a few hours here and there, who do not have the consistant time or raw hours to be reliable enough for group play.

Sure it is not the most profitable play style in the game, but sub-par and wrong are pretty different things, esp since 'sub par' is more profitable then 'just does not play'.
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#39 - 2011-11-28 22:28:03 UTC
Your cries of pain fall upon deaf ears.

Bring the ganks, death to all miners.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

Velicitia
XS Tech
#40 - 2011-11-29 00:42:26 UTC
Nekopyat wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Don't get me wrong ... there are some days where I actually enjoy it being quiet in corpchat... but overall, solo play is probably the one truly "wrong" way to go about playing EVE.


While sometimes I think the devs think it would be sexier if it were not the case, I think on the whole I disagree. Solo play is a fairly big part of EvE and is one of the reasons it has done so well. It had a place for players who just want to pop on for a few hours here and there, who do not have the consistant time or raw hours to be reliable enough for group play.

Sure it is not the most profitable play style in the game, but sub-par and wrong are pretty different things, esp since 'sub par' is more profitable then 'just does not play'.



Which is why I used quotation marks around wrong in my comment. I do like the break from group things to just chill and check markets or mine or pretty much anything ...

It's not terrible to run solo ... but the people who get up in arms that there needs to be "more solo content" at the expense of everything else are what really drag things down for the "pro solo play" crowd(if you wanna see what happens, just look at the threadnarok from earlier this year because of Incarna).

I will disagree that "solo play" is what has made EvE do so well -- you don't hear about the dude who plays for 2 hours in a mission drake in the gaming news ... you hear about the 1k man fleet fights, or the huge scams that seemed legit for years that netted one or two people hundreds of billions of ISK...

As for the guys who have only a few hours a week to play ... there are tonnes of corporations in hisec that are centred around that playstyle...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

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