Assembly Hall

I have been getting a bit concerned about the new battlecruisers going to be introduced in crucible.
Mainly my concern is these ships pack quite a punch and i am afraid they are going to be used to gank miners all over eve.
I have tested this on sisi and one tier 3 battle cruiser can destroy a hulk in a few seconds. And i did not even use faction ammo. or t2 guns..

So I think the miners are going to be the big loosers in this new expansion.
Could CCP maby think of introducing a new mining barge with stronger armor and/or shields?
Or even let the rorqual into high sec space to provide some protection for the now verry vulnrable mining barges?

^^this honestly

i remember back when i was an officer in a mining corp, semi-disbanded as we all started our own corps.

we actually FORBID corp members from mining in high-sec, as it gives crap isk per hour and we were adjacent to lowsec anyways.
honestly low-sec is PRETTY DAMN SAFE, all you need is a nice mining system and 4-5 australians from a friendly merc corp (as in they were people we built ships for, so they had an investment to protect), and our guys would mine decent-value ores all day with rarely a neut in system for more then 5 seconds.

basically, even if these new BC's are "hulk-killers", last checked they can go down fairly quick, get a well-balanced defense fleet of 4-5 ships, and you shouldnt have any problems.

Confirming resists don't exist, and tier 3 bc doesn't have the sig of a cruiser.

I'd be more concerned about mineral -> ship prices if I were you.

And btw, with the buffed dessie, catalyst pumps out 900 dps overheated (no, you won't need those guns later). I know what I will be using for the next hulkagaddon, and it's not the tornado.

This is the Talos' stats from chruker.dk:

EM/EX/KIN/THERM

Shield -- 0/50/40/20 (1750 base HP)
Armour -- 50/10/35/35 (1890 base HP)
Hull -- 0/0/0/0 (2160 base HP)

Sig radius is 200m.
Sig resolution on Meta 4 Neutron blasters is 400m.
Ideally you're hitting 50% of the time.

Base damage of antimatter is 28 Kin/20 Therm, weapon modifier (4.41x) brings you up to 123.48 Kin/88.2 Therm
8 weapons = 987.84Kin/705.6 Therm per volley before even factoring in skills and ship bonuses (1693.5 overall)... or critical/glancing blows... which will admittedly change the numbers a bit.

shields take 592.7 Kin/564.5 Therm damage per volley (1157.2 overall) (assuming 100% shields, 1 volley leaves you at 34%)
armour takes 642.1 Kin/458.6 Therm damage per volley (1100.7 overall) (assuming 0% shields, 100% armour, 1 volley leaves you at 41%)
Hull takes everything (1693.5) (assuming 0% shields, 0% armour, 1 volley leaves you at 21%)

since we're not accounting for the skill modification of these numbers (or modules, drones, ship bonuses, etc), looks like it'll take 5-6 solid hits with the base stats of the guns and resists.

Looking at the offensive side, The Talos gets 5% bonus to damage per BC level, so you're looking at an additional 15% damage at base skills to be in the ship... plus an additional 5% for large hybrid turret ...

So with just the base skills to be in one of these new BCs:

shields take 1397.3 overall (assuming 100% shields, 1 volley leaves you at 20%)
armour takes 1329.1 overall (assuming 0% shields, 100% armour, 1 volley leaves you at 30%)
Hull takes everything (2044.9) (assuming 0% shields, 0% armour, 1 volley leaves you at 5%)

Since we're not accounting for additional modifications to the numbers (modules, skills, drones, etc), looks like 4 solid hits would be enough to convert the Talos into scrap.

my OP stands

There is only one tier3 BC coming this winter .. Winmatar arty boat as requested by griefer/ganker leet PvP'ers on CSM and for CCP to get the whole art competition fiasco out of the way.

The three other ships will probably not see much use (comparatively) and are included because adding just the Winmatar hull would make the whole thing too obvious.

I'm an industrialist. I mine when I want to relax and not deal with anything else. However, I have also engaged in PvP when it's been necessary (mostly wardecs against corps I've been in).

The "Great Wall of Carebear" is the idea that EVERY gate in EVERY lowsec system is camped 24x7 with people who are shoot first, then laugh at the victim (or some idea that is very similar). Since "all" of the carebears believe in this perma-camping of the border systems, they're viewed as being completely not worth it. In essence, it creates a wall between hisec and lowsec.

TBH, I absolutely hate the people who whine and cry that they should be allowed to mine or whatever without anyone ever being allowed to shoot them or wardec them or anything...

What I'm hoping with the new Battlecruisers, and the new direction that CCP is taking in general is that hisec starts to become less safe overall. Not just in the "hey, people can lolgank you faster" sense, but also in altering some of the other mechanics to promote people from different walks of life to work together.

Reduce CONCORD response times, maybe remove them from 0.5 (swap with faction navies), maybe add the navies to 0.4 as well to help reduce the feeling of an immediate break from "safety" to "not safe".

Essentially, make it so that having "defences" in 0.5 are warranted and so that they actually can do something without getting CONCORDOKKEN (as it is now). Get people to be familiar with PvP, get people more incentives to work together -- rather than bringing an orca and 5 hulks in a 0.5 mining op, maybe you'll be bringing the orca, 2 hulks, ECM/point, and 2 BS...

it is not the point to convert them into pvpers. you are misunderstanding a lot of things here.

carebear makes shittons of isk. pirate makes his money by taking a bit of that. it's pretty ******* simple.

for example:

farmer grows some wheat. evil bandit comes and steals his crops and wife.

i think it should be pretty straightforward to understand.

the one could argue about meaningfulness of game mechanics which makes this possible but currently there is no better way.

also, a lot of you do not understand that it takes time and effort to find good "gank" in pretty similar way than exploring works. you keep scanning until you hit something which MIGHT get you something valuable. even then there's risk of failure unless you try to play safe, which means profit is reduced to pretty minimum. for most of people it's just easier to carry on and do incursions.

Wow, now, you're actually right ... the PROFESSIONAL Ganker, I could actually have some respect for ... skill-wise I mean ...

Still ... is this REALLY what the game is all about? Either nullsec blob warfare, or ruining other ppl's days? ... From destroyable customs houses, better, cheaper weapons for gankers, and too many "nerf hisec and anyone who isn't a ganker or a nullbear" rumors to count ... is it just me or does this game really just HATE anyone who doesn't want to either a) play the "Bad Guy" b) be nullsec "Meatshield #75468", or at least c) become willing PVP cannonfodder? These are all fine and great goals for some people (not enough though it would seem, based on subscriber numbers). Is it really anathema to be someone who just wants to mind their own business and build cool stuff, run missions, etc.?

Maybe it's all that EVE is intended to be and nothing more .... then again ... maybe it's why we don't have more players ....

If shooting carebears is PvP then throwing dynamite into a pond must count as fishing.

Doesn't matter if it can fit a full rack of 1400 II's .. you can get away with using tech1 for a majority of targets and for the harder targets you downgrade one or two. Suicide ganking is not rocket science .. this idiot concept just lowers the bar and cost associated with it.

yeah -- i was going off what my corpies were saying ... bandwidth limits and all... wanna make sure I've got enough to not get the ISP pissy at me for Crucible =]

edit -- so was able to get the installer at a mate's house yesterday ...

Seems that the ships have one of two modes

1. Gank!!!!
2. WTF am I wasting lowslots with tanking modules?

Now, what we didn't get a chance to try out was buffer tanks with a logi cruiser helping to soak incoming DPS... so that might be a viable setup for the "plan" these ships seem to have (i.e. the "fast" roaming gangs).

You're right that the resists and other things will probably move the numbers I gave one way or the other as for their survivability... but not by very much.

From what we were fitting last night (DCU II and Mag Field Stabs/Heatsinks/Gyrostabs in the lows, full rack of Meta 4 guns with a few rounds of faction ammo) ... the new BC will absolutely trash mining vessels.

we tried it against the "normal" hulk you'll find in hisec (completely untanked), and they'll DIAF in pretty much one volley (assuming you hit).

Ran the numbers against Halada's nullsec fit, and it looks like 5-6 volleys, possibly less if the guns are overheated.

Now, this fit will absolutely DIAF to BCs (probably even cruisers) fit for gank. Roughly the same fit on a brutix (7x med guns, DCU II, Mag Field Stabs) will turn the new BCs into scrapmetal in 8-12 volleys (depending on whether or not you overheat)