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In simplest terms, what is wrong with EVE

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Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#381 - 2014-10-27 16:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Bastion Arzi
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
such as?
i spend a lot of my time in game suspect flagged so .
currently the 15 minuet timer is extended if i steal anything els or if i shoot at anyone's assets in space.
and fyi i get shot at by players at gates all the time if i travel with that timer (bears might be cowards but you run into all sorts at gates)



and in rens on BTT station.

was sitting there in my dual deadspace rep sacrilege suspect flagged.

when a fleet of frigs just started shooting me.

only had one point so they got away -1 poor poor fool.

what a delicious memory.

tried a similar thing in a vargur and no one touched me...
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#382 - 2014-10-27 16:27:12 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


Quote:
A lot of the time Concord responds to crime by not doing anything if you see my point.
I see your point, but it is working as intended, Concord only respond to "serious" crime.


Once the timer has expired they forget all about it, perhaps there should be conditions under which a suspect flag remains for an extended duration.

Maybe the question was about sec status

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#383 - 2014-10-27 16:31:52 UTC
Considering the ideas here, I believe football (american) needs to have tackling removed since it causes less athletic/tough people to not play. I would like to get this petition to the NFL board as soon as possible, so if you could just sign here...


X________________
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#384 - 2014-10-27 16:36:14 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Considering the ideas here, I believe football (american) needs to have tackling removed since it causes less athletic/tough people to not play. I would like to get this petition to the NFL board as soon as possible, so if you could just sign here...


X________________

better suggestion would be to play it without the body armour
as is the case with rugby
(much the same american "football" but played by men)

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#385 - 2014-10-27 16:37:55 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Considering the ideas here, I believe football (american) needs to have tackling removed since it causes less athletic/tough people to not play. I would like to get this petition to the NFL board as soon as possible, so if you could just sign here...


X________________
Don't forget about removing one of the most entertaining parts of Ice Hockey. The fact that the game can start at any time during the fight must alienate those who think an Ice Rink is for figure skating.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#386 - 2014-10-27 16:49:32 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Considering the ideas here, I believe football (american) needs to have tackling removed since it causes less athletic/tough people to not play. I would like to get this petition to the NFL board as soon as possible, so if you could just sign here...


X________________


Post of the damn day here.

You just described a significant portion of high sec dwelling forum posters :)
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#387 - 2014-10-27 16:50:03 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Considering the ideas here, I believe football (american) needs to have tackling removed since it causes less athletic/tough people to not play. I would like to get this petition to the NFL board as soon as possible, so if you could just sign here...


X________________

better suggestion would be to play it without the body armour
as is the case with rugby
(much the same american "football" but played by men)

I was going to suggest adding more pillows and a change to a less aggressive form of hugging the opposing players until they feel obligated to stop out of mutual friendship. Replacing the men with schoolgirls might be a welcome addition for the common man as well. Not for the reasons you think.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#388 - 2014-10-27 16:52:00 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
I shouldn't need to "stop" gankers in highsec. We have a police force. Criminals, especially repeat offenders, should be properly punished.


See here is the crux of your problem - you should need to stop gankers in highsec if you have a problem with them, not a NPC-based mechanism. It is a game. A game centered around conflict between players - and this conflict is the whole point of playing. And the complex ganking/security status/CONCORD system was explicitly designed to allow these repeat criminals to continually operate to drive conflict in highsec.

Repeat offenders are punished. You want them "properly punished" though. What is that? A punishment that is so severe they can't operate in highsec? That would break the game. But if you made the punishments just a little more severe and the gankers adapted and continued killing things, you would conclude that the punishment wasn't severe enough and continue arguing for further increases. This would only end when the punishments were so severe that no more ganking was possible, highsec was perfectly safe, and you had effectively removed PvP from a PvP game, thus breaking it.

Your proposals are not compatible with a functioning PvP game.

You need to step back a bit. CONCORD is not actually there to "punish" players to stop them from ganking as you seem to think. After all, ganking, and the conflict it drives are explicitly allowed by the game mechanics.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#389 - 2014-10-27 16:53:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Rowells wrote:
I was going to suggest adding more pillows and a change to a less aggressive form of hugging the opposing players until they feel obligated to stop out of mutual friendship. Replacing the men with schoolgirls scantily clad cheerleaders might be a welcome addition for the common man as well. Not For all of the reasons you think.
FTFY Twisted

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Haleuth
Peoples Liberation Army
Goonswarm Federation
#390 - 2014-10-27 17:09:59 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
I shouldn't need to "stop" gankers in highsec. We have a police force. Criminals, especially repeat offenders, should be properly punished.


See here is the crux of your problem - you should need to stop gankers in highsec if you have a problem with them, not a NPC-based mechanism. It is a game. A game centered around conflict between players - and this conflict is the whole point of playing. And the complex ganking/security status/CONCORD system was explicitly designed to allow these repeat criminals to continually operate to drive conflict in highsec.

Repeat offenders are punished. You want them "properly punished" though. What is that? A punishment that is so severe they can't operate in highsec? That would break the game. But if you made the punishments just a little more severe and the gankers adapted and continued killing things, you would conclude that the punishment wasn't severe enough and continue arguing for further increases. This would only end when the punishments were so severe that no more ganking was possible, highsec was perfectly safe, and you had effectively removed PvP from a PvP game, thus breaking it.

Your proposals are not compatible with a functioning PvP game.

You need to step back a bit. CONCORD is not actually there to "punish" players to stop them from ganking as you seem to think. After all, ganking, and the conflict it drives are explicitly allowed by the game mechanics.


Lets hope he can stand back and unstand this.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#391 - 2014-10-27 17:20:34 UTC
Haleuth wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
I shouldn't need to "stop" gankers in highsec. We have a police force. Criminals, especially repeat offenders, should be properly punished.


See here is the crux of your problem - you should need to stop gankers in highsec if you have a problem with them, not a NPC-based mechanism. It is a game. A game centered around conflict between players - and this conflict is the whole point of playing. And the complex ganking/security status/CONCORD system was explicitly designed to allow these repeat criminals to continually operate to drive conflict in highsec.

Repeat offenders are punished. You want them "properly punished" though. What is that? A punishment that is so severe they can't operate in highsec? That would break the game. But if you made the punishments just a little more severe and the gankers adapted and continued killing things, you would conclude that the punishment wasn't severe enough and continue arguing for further increases. This would only end when the punishments were so severe that no more ganking was possible, highsec was perfectly safe, and you had effectively removed PvP from a PvP game, thus breaking it.

Your proposals are not compatible with a functioning PvP game.

You need to step back a bit. CONCORD is not actually there to "punish" players to stop them from ganking as you seem to think. After all, ganking, and the conflict it drives are explicitly allowed by the game mechanics.


Lets hope he can stand back and unstand this.
Doubtful, it's Veers, unless you're him or agree with him, you're wrong as far as he's concerned

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#392 - 2014-10-27 18:04:53 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Considering the ideas here, I believe football (american) needs to have tackling removed since it causes less athletic/tough people to not play. I would like to get this petition to the NFL board as soon as possible, so if you could just sign here...


X________________

better suggestion would be to play it without the body armour
as is the case with rugby
(much the same american "football" but played by men)

I was going to suggest adding more pillows and a change to a less aggressive form of hugging the opposing players until they feel obligated to stop out of mutual friendship. Replacing the men with schoolgirls might be a welcome addition for the common man as well. Not for the reasons you think.

forgive me but didn't you just describe american football?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Nevil Oscillator
#393 - 2014-10-27 18:31:39 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


Quote:
A lot of the time Concord responds to crime by not doing anything if you see my point.
I see your point, but it is working as intended, Concord only respond to "serious" crime.


Once the timer has expired they forget all about it, perhaps there should be conditions under which a suspect flag remains for an extended duration.

such as?
i spend a lot of my time in game suspect flagged so .
currently the 15 minuet timer is extended if i steal anything els or if i shoot at anyone's assets in space.
and fyi i get shot at by players at gates all the time if i travel with that timer (bears might be cowards but you run into all sorts at gates)


As soon as you hit -5 security status then that flag is effectively permanent but until that point it is always 15mins, why not have a progressively longer flag the more crime you comit until you reach -5 security status ?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#394 - 2014-10-27 18:41:43 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


Quote:
A lot of the time Concord responds to crime by not doing anything if you see my point.
I see your point, but it is working as intended, Concord only respond to "serious" crime.


Once the timer has expired they forget all about it, perhaps there should be conditions under which a suspect flag remains for an extended duration.

such as?
i spend a lot of my time in game suspect flagged so .
currently the 15 minuet timer is extended if i steal anything els or if i shoot at anyone's assets in space.
and fyi i get shot at by players at gates all the time if i travel with that timer (bears might be cowards but you run into all sorts at gates)


As soon as you hit -5 security status then that flag is effectively permanent but until that point it is always 15mins, why not have a progressively longer flag the more crime you comit until you reach -5 security status ?

once you hit -2 sec status the local npc's start chasing you and will asplode your ship when they catch you

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Nevil Oscillator
#395 - 2014-10-27 18:56:31 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:


once you hit -2 sec status the local npc's start chasing you and will asplode your ship when they catch you



yes in 1.0 sec level systems, there is that progressive sec level where they do it

-2, -2.5,-3, -3.5 -4 ect..

Translate that to

10 min
12 min
15 min
19 min
24 min
30 min

Though I'm not sure that is quite what we are looking for. the suspect flag works fine maybe for low sec violence and can flipping but I think what they want is that when someone is Concorded and criminal flagged, that flag should downgrade to suspect when the timer is up for x amount of time.

The only thing I don't like about this idea is that it is all taking way from gankers without giving anything back to keep them in business.
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#396 - 2014-10-27 19:03:09 UTC
I thought dealing with carebears on a daily basis was punishment enough, now we're talking about punishing gankers further?

CCP has no sense of humour.
Nevil Oscillator
#397 - 2014-10-27 19:06:47 UTC
Some Rando wrote:
I thought dealing with carebears on a daily basis was punishment enough, now we're talking about punishing gankers further?


You could remove the -5 sec status ruling if the suspect flags were long enough to keep everyone happy.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#398 - 2014-10-27 19:43:36 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Some Rando wrote:
I thought dealing with carebears on a daily basis was punishment enough, now we're talking about punishing gankers further?


You could remove the -5 sec status ruling if the suspect flags were long enough to keep everyone happy.

nevil...have you ever actually gone suspect?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#399 - 2014-10-27 19:56:54 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
nevil...have you ever actually gone suspect?

Obviously not if he views it as a form of "punishment". "Downgrading" to suspect from criminal isn't going to change how people operate in the slightest.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Nevil Oscillator
#400 - 2014-10-27 21:03:14 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

nevil...have you ever actually gone suspect?



Yeah, usually when I haven't fleeted a corp mate and they have run out of cargo space, so I have to steal from their wreck. I try not to make a habit of it.