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In simplest terms, what is wrong with EVE

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Author
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#221 - 2014-10-24 17:36:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Wallace Trucker wrote:
This response concerns me. It seems you believe your pixelized character has a brain of it's own, and you have no control over it's actions. You just sign it on, and he takes off doing it's own thing. The fact is this digital character is a direct reflection of who you are. The digital character in every way is you. He reflects your morals, your thought patterns and processes, right down to your very soul. It is incapable of thinking for itself, or taking actions without YOU telling it what to do.
Eve is an MMORPG, RPG (role playing game) being the pertinent part in this instance. Which part of the words ROLE PLAYING GAME do you not understand?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#222 - 2014-10-24 17:47:16 UTC
Wallace Trucker wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Brochan McLeod wrote:

chances are that if you behave like an oaf ingame ( and even defend it)... you are an oaf IRL... and i DONT mean the PvP mechanics.

^^
difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions.

you realise this attitude is why we glory in carebear tears without feeling bad right.


This response concerns me. It seems you believe your pixelized character has a brain of it's own, and you have no control over it's actions. You just sign it on, and he takes off doing it's own thing. The fact is this digital character is a direct reflection of who you are. The digital character in every way is you. He reflects your morals, your thought patterns and processes, right down to your very soul. It is incapable of thinking for itself, or taking actions without YOU telling it what to do.

This is an issue that human society is going to have to deal with in the near future. Are machines, avatars, robots, or any mechanical or virtual thing responsible for their own actions? Or is the human in control of that machine responsible. (If I command my robot to murder my ex-wife...am I responsible if it does kill her?)


Schizophrenia_and_autism.txt

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Wallace Trucker
State War Academy
Caldari State
#223 - 2014-10-24 17:57:03 UTC

^^
also has difficulty disassociating real world emotional value responses from digital actions.
its a role (really important word that),
its make believe internet spaceship pixels,
it is in no way a reflection of anything other than how i play make believe internet spaceship pixels.[/quote


just another justification for YOUR actions, or a split personality disorder. You are who you are or playing at being something your not, either way the pixels are under YOUR control and only do what YOU tell them to do. Which hopefully involve a thought process. That should include, is this action I'm about to take right or wrong.
[/quote]
*pinches nose*

are you familiar with any of these concepts?

Role Play

Role-playing refers to the changing of one's behaviour to assume a role, either unconsciously to fill a social role, or consciously to act out an adopted role. While the Oxford English Dictionary offers a definition of role-playing as "the changing of one's behaviour to fulfill a social role", in the field of psychology, the term is used more loosely in four senses:

To refer to the playing of roles generally such as in a theatre, or educational setting;

To refer to taking a role of an existing character or person and acting it out with a partner taking someone else's role, often involving different genres of practice;
To refer to a wide range of games including role-playing video game, play-by-mail games and more;
To refer specifically to role-playing games.[2]

Acting

Acting is the work of an actor or actress, which is a person in theatre, television, film, or any other storytelling medium who tells the story by portraying a character and, usually, speaking or singing the written text or play.


make believe

Make believe is a loosely structured form of role-playing that generally has no rules except to stay in character, and requires no specific props. It is normally restricted to young, pre-pubescent children, and aside from its straightforward purpose of fun can sometimes also serve the purpose of allowing children to explore adult roles and relationships. Make believe play can reveal a great deal about a child's psychological state, perception of gender roles, home life and interpretation of the world that is around them.

if not , you should probably remedy that.[/quote]

I am familiar with all these terms and there definitions. But these terms would all indicate that all involved parties are aware of the fact that the person is "role playing" and are familiar with who the person really is. And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me.


Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#224 - 2014-10-24 18:00:49 UTC
Wallace Trucker wrote:
And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me.




So you've never heard of Grand Theft Auto it seems.

How boring would multiplayer games be if no one ever played the bad guy?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#225 - 2014-10-24 18:01:24 UTC
We aren't responsible for maintaining other people's point of view, awareness or understanding.

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Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#226 - 2014-10-24 18:12:23 UTC
Wallace Trucker wrote:
I am familiar with all these terms and there definitions. But these terms would all indicate that all involved parties are aware of the fact that the person is "role playing" and are familiar with who the person really is.

http://i.imgur.com/iWKad22.jpg
Quote:
And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me.
because playing Allan from accounting is too edgy for me
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#227 - 2014-10-24 18:14:05 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
because playing Allan from accounting is too edgy for me

Elite RP~

CCP has no sense of humour.

Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#228 - 2014-10-24 18:18:56 UTC
Wallace Trucker wrote:
And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me.

*benny ohu takes a long draw on his cigarette*

the thing you got to understand, that i don't expect you to understand, right, is that sometimes the man doesn't choose the Life. sometimes the Life chooses you, son, and you got to accept that or accept a bullet in your head

*benny starts choking on the smoke because benny's never smoked before on account of smoking causes cancer*
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#229 - 2014-10-24 18:20:35 UTC
oh man i should have gone with chewing tobacco that would have been so much more badass
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#230 - 2014-10-24 18:26:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Wallace Trucker wrote:
I am familiar with all these terms and there their* definitions.
Evidently not.

Quote:
But these terms would all indicate that all involved parties are aware of the fact that the person is "role playing" and are familiar with who the person really is.
As stated earlier Eve is an MMORPG, as such it's fairly reasonable to assume that the people who are playing it are role playing regardless of whether or not you are familiar with who the other person really is Roll

Quote:
And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people
Because you're able to is as good a reason as any, most MMORPGs cast you almost exclusively in the role of a hero, being a hero gets boring after a while.

Quote:
this also concerns me.
What concerns me is your inability to differentiate between reality and fantasy, your complete fail at quoting is also slightly disconcerting.

*Fixed your poor command of homophones.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#231 - 2014-10-24 18:27:10 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Wallace Trucker wrote:
And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me.

*benny ohu takes a long draw on his cigarette*

the thing you got to understand, that i don't expect you to understand, right, is that sometimes the man doesn't choose the Life. sometimes the Life chooses you, son, and you got to accept that or accept a bullet in your head

*benny starts choking on the smoke because benny's never smoked before on account of smoking causes cancer*


Sometimes people say they fell out of their chair laughing. Well I did actually fall out of this one (freaking wheel snagged on something and I was reading this as I was getting up to answer my phone). Thanks to you I have a sore left ass cheek.

Since I don't know you real name, the incoming law suit will just be "People vs Benny Ohu"
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#232 - 2014-10-24 18:30:36 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
oh man i should have gone with chewing tobacco that would have been so much more badass


Glass of expensive liqueur.

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2014-10-24 18:31:28 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Wallace Trucker wrote:
I am familiar with all these terms and there definitions.
Evidently not .

Quote:
But these terms would all indicate that all involved parties are aware of the fact that the person is "role playing" and are familiar with who the person really is.
As stated earlier Eve is an MMORPG, as such it's fairly reasonable to assume that the people who are playing it are role playing regardless of whether or not you are familiar with who the other person really is Roll

Quote:
And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people
Because you're able to is as good a reason as any, most MMORPGs cast you almost exclusively in the role of a hero, being a hero gets boring after a while.

Quote:
this also concerns me.
What concerns me is your inability to differentiate between reality and fantasy, your complete fail at quoting is also slightly disconcerting.


That last part is schizophrenia or a component of it.

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Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#234 - 2014-10-24 19:56:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jandice Ymladris
Wallace Trucker wrote:



I am familiar with all these terms and there definitions. But these terms would all indicate that all involved parties are aware of the fact that the person is "role playing" and are familiar with who the person really is. And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me.




While I'm no fan of the role Ralph-King Griffin has taken on in Eve (Lowsec asshattery) I do accept it's part of an open world PvP RPG game like Eve.
When you sign up on a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG) you can rest assured that everyone plays a role, some lie close to who they are in reality, while many personailties differ alot between their real self and the virtual avatar they play.
Roleplaying a thief & assassin is a very common role people assume in manyy RPG's, it's why there's a Thief/Rogue/Assassin class in most RPGs.

Note, I'm not defending ganking, but I am defending the freedom people have in taking whatever role they want to be, from Hero to Villain and anything in between. After all, a PVP game without opponents would die out quickly. As for me, I take precautions to minimize ganking on myself, by choosing less travelled rotues & transport stuff with appropriate ships or fly with appropriate fits.

Oh, and if you wodner my role in Eve? It's reporter, I report on various shenanigans in eve from an ingame perspective, like 'Ganker Ganked!', showing that Eve is not a game of black & white, but just various shades of grey.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Crimson Nirnroots
Compliant Munitions
#235 - 2014-10-24 20:11:20 UTC
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
Note, I'm not defending ganking, but I am defending the freedom people have in taking whatever role they want to be, from Hero to Villain and anything in between. After all, a PVP game without opponents would die out quickly. As for me, I take precautions to minimize ganking on myself, by choosing less travelled rotues & transport stuff with appropriate ships or fly with appropriate fits.

Oh, and if you wodner my role in Eve? It's reporter, I report on various shenanigans in eve from an ingame perspective, like 'Ganker Ganked!', showing that Eve is not a game of black & white, but just various shades of grey.



Love this part. The best thing that can happen to any Sandbox is diversity.

New view points, ways of thinking, stories with villains and heroes, culture and lore. Almost entirely player created and most certainly player driven.

My role? A dapper salesman of Antimatter from the great Caldari state. My best customers are perhaps the agents and Knights of CODE and the New Order, as I can only imagine pilots aren't paying ~500isk a hit for faction just to pop rats in highsec Cool.

Antimatter, now with more Nirnroots.

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#236 - 2014-10-24 21:39:58 UTC
Wallace Trucker wrote:
And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me.


Darth Vader is the coolest bad guy ever, and he was a criminal who shot people and stole from them... on a galactic scale. Does George Lucas concern you, or just David Prowse?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#237 - 2014-10-24 21:42:51 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Wallace Trucker wrote:
And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me.


Darth Vader is the coolest bad guy ever, and he was a criminal who shot people and stole from them... on a galactic scale. Does George Lucas concern you, or just David Prowse?
Bearing in mind that the guy who played Darth Vader also dressed up in green and taught generations of children how to cross the road without ending up dead.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Serene Repose
#238 - 2014-10-24 21:58:49 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
I wish I could agree with your premise OP, but I think you have to restate it. You're really talking about the problems with associating with sociopaths. You can see a post like this brings them out of the woodwork and they have no problem at all crowing about their sociopathic behavior - touting it to be perfectly normal, while YOUR perspective is the problem.

They have no compunction about bragging they are not men of their word, or ladies with integrity and honor. They will boast about lying as a rule, then vilify you for getting near enough to them to hear them utter those lies. Ah, but to believe them? They'd lie in game. Why do we assume they aren't lying here? I don't. May their egos shrivel up even more.

a.) Our society generates sociopaths as a natural result of its nature.

b.) It's been happening so long people now think it IS human nature.

c.) Anyone, just anyone, can access the internet.

d.) Why wouldn't they find EVE the perfect environment?

e.) Haven't I been saying this for years now?

"The fault is not in our stars, Brutus. It is in ourselves."

Saying someone is a sociopath for disassociating consequences and their actions in a digital gaming environment is a stretch at best.
Were this true, then it's possible to exist in a reality apart from this one we're in.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#239 - 2014-10-24 22:11:40 UTC
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
Wallace Trucker wrote:



I am familiar with all these terms and there definitions. But these terms would all indicate that all involved parties are aware of the fact that the person is "role playing" and are familiar with who the person really is. And if you are role playing why choose to play a criminal who shoots and steals from other people...this also concerns me.




While I'm no fan of the role Ralph-King Griffin has taken on in Eve (ganking players) I do accept it's part of an open world PvP RPG game like Eve.
When you sign up on a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG) you can rest assured that everyone plays a role, some lie close to who they are in reality, while many personailties differ alot between their real self and the virtual avatar they play.
Roleplaying a thief & assassin is a very common role people assume in manyy RPG's, it's why there's a Thief/Rogue/Assassin class in most RPGs.

Note, I'm not defending ganking, but I am defending the freedom people have in taking whatever role they want to be, from Hero to Villain and anything in between. After all, a PVP game without opponents would die out quickly. As for me, I take precautions to minimize ganking on myself, by choosing less travelled rotues & transport stuff with appropriate ships or fly with appropriate fits.

Oh, and if you wodner my role in Eve? It's reporter, I report on various shenanigans in eve from an ingame perspective, like 'Ganker Ganked!', showing that Eve is not a game of black & white, but just various shades of grey.

Great post, one minor correction though.
I'm not a ganker.
legitimate war targets,
bear flipping(related to ganking but with considerable nuance involved),
lowsec asshattery,
targets of opportunity ect ect,
I'm not "above" ganking but it would have to be a specific target of interest.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#240 - 2014-10-24 22:13:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Serene Repose wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
I wish I could agree with your premise OP, but I think you have to restate it. You're really talking about the problems with associating with sociopaths. You can see a post like this brings them out of the woodwork and they have no problem at all crowing about their sociopathic behavior - touting it to be perfectly normal, while YOUR perspective is the problem.

They have no compunction about bragging they are not men of their word, or ladies with integrity and honor. They will boast about lying as a rule, then vilify you for getting near enough to them to hear them utter those lies. Ah, but to believe them? They'd lie in game. Why do we assume they aren't lying here? I don't. May their egos shrivel up even more.

a.) Our society generates sociopaths as a natural result of its nature.

b.) It's been happening so long people now think it IS human nature.

c.) Anyone, just anyone, can access the internet.

d.) Why wouldn't they find EVE the perfect environment?

e.) Haven't I been saying this for years now?

"The fault is not in our stars, Brutus. It is in ourselves."

Saying someone is a sociopath for disassociating consequences and their actions in a digital gaming environment is a stretch at best.
Were this true, then it's possible to exist in a reality apart from this one we're in.
I don't know what reality you live in, but in the one I live in the ability to tell the difference between actions, and their consequences, carried out in a virtual world and those carried out in the real world is a sign of a healthy mind.

Maybe you should seek some help.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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