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EVE Developer License contradicts itself in 4.2 and 4.4a

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Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#1 - 2014-10-23 03:24:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Tronic
Quote:

4.2
Developer shall not a tie a Player's access to, or use of, the Application to the purchase of any other product or service, or to a Player's participation in any survey, marketing or promotional offer, or other similar activity. Developer shall not charge fees for unlocking or providing access to premium content within an Application.


Quote:

4.4
(a) Developer may condition the access or use of an Application on payment or other transfer of EVE's valid in-game currency (e.g., ISK) to Developer or to any registered EVE corporation of which Developer is a member;


Great job drawing the line so funny. Section 4.2 and 4.4a need better distinction. You could argue using ISK is a purchase. It's funnier when you could say I want to offer access to another service if they have access to the main service they pay for with ISK.
Kali Izia
GoomWaffe
#2 - 2014-10-23 05:46:40 UTC
4.2 is referring to real money.
You can charge ISK for access to your app, but not real money.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#3 - 2014-10-23 11:50:19 UTC
That final clause smacks of something that legal put in, to protect themselves in the future. No plans to do it, not even the embryo of a plan, but a get out clause, just in case someone's app causes them excessive load.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#4 - 2014-10-23 12:53:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Tronic
Kali Izia wrote:
4.2 is referring to real money.
You can charge ISK for access to your app, but not real money.



It's a legal agreement. It has to be distinctly defined as referring to real money or you end up leaving what is known as a "loophole". i.e. "Purchase" has to be defined as using any fiat currency, the definition also has to cover digital currency like Bitcoin,etc.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#5 - 2014-10-23 13:15:01 UTC
Jack Tronic wrote:
Quote:

4.2
Developer shall not a tie a Player's access to, or use of, the Application to the purchase of any other product or service, or to a Player's participation in any survey, marketing or promotional offer, or other similar activity. Developer shall not charge fees for unlocking or providing access to premium content within an Application.


Quote:

4.4
(a) Developer may condition the access or use of an Application on payment or other transfer of EVE's valid in-game currency (e.g., ISK) to Developer or to any registered EVE corporation of which Developer is a member;


Great job drawing the line so funny. Section 4.2 and 4.4a need better distinction. You could argue using ISK is a purchase. It's funnier when you could say I want to offer access to another service if they have access to the main service they pay for with ISK.





Quote:

At a later date, CCP may choose to begin charging fees or collecting royalties for the rights granted herein. However, CCP shall provide Developer of no less than ninety (90) calendar days' notice prior to doing so, and in accordance with Section 6.4, Developer may terminate this Agreement upon written notice to CCP.


So, CCP wants to destroy the community in the future, good thing they put keeping the shotgun in mouth clause in there! While I know this is a business decision, I really hope CCP doesn't do something this dumb.


I have passed the point about 4.2 and 4.4a on to our lawyer people.

As for the later charge money thing: Chill out and judge us when we do it. Until then, it's just a thing to cover our ass in the future.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#6 - 2014-10-23 15:10:56 UTC
Well, I don't think ingame-ISK transactions count as purchases/fees from a legal PoV.

Maybe specific mention of ingame characters in 4.4 might clarify things, as in:
Quote:
4.4
(a) Developer may condition the access or use of an Application on payment or other transfer of EVE's valid in-game currency (e.g., ISK) to the Developer's game character or to any registered EVE corporation of which this character is a member;
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#7 - 2014-10-23 17:01:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Tronic
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Jack Tronic wrote:
Quote:

4.2
Developer shall not a tie a Player's access to, or use of, the Application to the purchase of any other product or service, or to a Player's participation in any survey, marketing or promotional offer, or other similar activity. Developer shall not charge fees for unlocking or providing access to premium content within an Application.


[quote]
4.4
(a) Developer may condition the access or use of an Application on payment or other transfer of EVE's valid in-game currency (e.g., ISK) to Developer or to any registered EVE corporation of which Developer is a member;


Great job drawing the line so funny. Section 4.2 and 4.4a need better distinction. You could argue using ISK is a purchase. It's funnier when you could say I want to offer access to another service if they have access to the main service they pay for with ISK.



Aye, I wasn't attacking on the final point, was just poking it while I was reading through the license, I knew why it was there :P. The only contention was just 4.2 and 4.4 clarity.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#8 - 2014-10-31 13:06:22 UTC
Hey, just as a heads up: we made a slight change to clarify this:

2. Developer shall not a tie a Player's access to, or use of, the Application to the purchase of any other product or service, or to a Player's participation in any survey, marketing or promotional offer, or other similar activity. Except as expressly provided in Section 4(4)(a) below with respect to in-game currency, developer shall not charge fees for unlocking or providing access to premium content within an Application.

Highlighted in bold the addition. Hope that helps clarify it. :)

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#9 - 2014-10-31 18:43:16 UTC
Great.

Another point of possible contention
Quote:

7.1
"Developer shall ensure that EVE and the Licensed Materials retain all proprietary notices necessary to protect CCP's intellectual property rights in the foregoing, including without limitation ownership of all Derivative Works, such notice to be substantially as follows: "© 2014 CCP hf. All rights reserved. "EVE", "EVE Online", "CCP", and all related logos and images are trademarks or registered trademarks of CCP hf.""

and

Quote:

This license to Developer does not include the right for Developer to represent itself, its organization, or its business as that of CCP nor to hold itself out to third parties as an agent of CCP.



7.1 was written from an invalid perspective. If I have a website that uses EVE content, then I should put that notice. However, starting the text like that almost implies being related to CCP.

i.e.
if I put

Quote:

© 2011-2014 borkedLabs
© 2014 CCP hf. All rights reserved.


It starts to imply a relationship.

The older copyright text that sites used from somewhere is more reasonable. i.e. it lies out a clear separation.


Quote:

COPYRIGHT NOTICE EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to Evenews24.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, XXXXXXXX. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.


But maybe I'm being picky over the language of "substantially as follows" and as a engineer I need to read the fine print and sign paperwork alot :X