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What if the frig wormholes Showed up without needing to be probed down
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Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#1 - 2014-10-22 16:46:43 UTC
The frigate wormholes are pretty useless atm. There is not enough viability for using them. So I had an idea regarding improving them.

1) they are signatures that require no scanning. Essentially remove the scan requirement from them. They show up as a normal 100% green site, that can be warped directly to. It would remove the initial need to probe it down, and would permit anybody in a frigate and or destroyer to warp to them.

2) there needs to be a logistical use for them. In this case, I would probably set it up so the blockade runner could also use them (maybe the dst too).

Now why would I even suggest this. What usually happens when I scan a hole out, I mark it and jump it. If it's a frig hole, 90% of the time I don't bother, I just mark it as a frig and move on. It basically increases the amount of scanning I have to do, while providing me 0 feedback or enjoyment for scanning it out. It's not something we typically use for transit, it's not a pve site or really a major focus of pvp (because we normally don't bother jumping it, even if In a cloaky frig scanner.

So let's remove that hurtle and try to improve it. Remove the need to scan them down, just make them show up as any other warp able site without having to spend the adnauseum of probing it down just to make it as a no-use hole.

You may bring a boost to small frigate gangs in low and nullsec, might bring a boost to fleet warfare, and might open up some avenues for newbies to bring a frig in to tackle something, or a miner in to suck gas, or at least some more active conflict on wormholes in kspace and maybe w space.

I know the wormhole crowd doesn't like the idea of not needing to probe a wormhole, but we also generally don't like these frig holes either, because they provide nothing.

Just an idea I needed to get down on paper.

Yaay!!!!
Bullet Therapist
FT Cold Corporation
#2 - 2014-10-22 16:49:54 UTC
Well, I don't really know if it would be good or bad. I don't really know anything about frigate worm holes, to be honest. What kind of content do they offer?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-10-22 17:02:08 UTC
Bullet Therapist wrote:
Well, I don't really know if it would be good or bad. I don't really know anything about frigate worm holes, to be honest. What kind of content do they offer?


Interceptor Online.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#4 - 2014-10-22 17:12:02 UTC
Bullet Therapist wrote:
Well, I don't really know if it would be good or bad. I don't really know anything about frigate worm holes, to be honest. What kind of content do they offer?


They were suppose to create a new type of meta for wormhole space, the use of frigates and destroyers. The new t3 destroyer is suppose to be usable in these also. There was several issues though regarding this.

1) a lot of groups use t3's for scanning, which don't fit.
2) wormholers generally don't use non-scanning non cloaky frigates in wormholes (or frigates period).
3) lowsec/null groups normally don't bother using them because they require probing (why bother finding them when they can just go roam)
4) they have no logistical use except for maybe seeding a scan alt in someone's wormhole.

They havent provided much of any access for people, because I believe the main issue is "why bother with them".

They are not of much of any use for people using their normally used ships (in wormholes, it's usually cruisers). In kspace, there is zero reason or use for probing them down, as they won't be used by many, if any, at all.

Yaay!!!!
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#5 - 2014-10-22 17:12:54 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:
Well, I don't really know if it would be good or bad. I don't really know anything about frigate worm holes, to be honest. What kind of content do they offer?


Interceptor Online.



That was the initial fear with the frig wormholes.

It hasn't happened.

Yaay!!!!
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#6 - 2014-10-22 21:49:21 UTC
Right, one could totally do what you propose there. Or just remove them. Would have about the same effect but way less hassle for the devs i guess.
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2014-10-22 22:08:18 UTC
They are actually fun once you get this "we don't usually fly frigs" nonsense out of your heads.

Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#8 - 2014-10-22 22:19:40 UTC
Galmas wrote:
Right, one could totally do what you propose there. Or just remove them. Would have about the same effect but way less hassle for the devs i guess.


Let's assume they are here to stay. What can be done to improve them.


King Fu Hostile wrote:
They are actually fun once you get this "we don't usually fly frigs" nonsense out of your heads.



There is an inherent stigma with wormhole entities regarding frigates. Some are valid arguments. One of the larger ones is the possible rofl killmail when someone pods your frigate and you and you have a slaveset in your head. I bring this up because we recently killed a venture, gas mining, and prodded the guy who had a high end slave set. Was it stupid of him to gas mine in a slaveset, you betcha. Did he have any choices regarding switching out his implants in wspace? Nope.

The other argument is who would use it. They are pretty pointless to camp, and are purely used for transit, but transit of stuff which is Fairly useless.

That's why I am trying to figure out how to both improve these holes as well as coax people into using them more. It might be something as simple as making them more visible.

Yaay!!!!
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#9 - 2014-10-22 22:19:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
IMO for frig wormholes to really work they need to be connected to but mostly discrete of wormhole space in general - I'm not a fan of wormholes that don't need to be scanned in general but I also think that frig wormholes should be a class of their own (and as an aside more like a tear in the fabric of space than a fully formed wormhole) if they are mostly a collection of systems of their own with some links to w-space and k-space I don't really have a problem with them being warpable to from dscan. (You'd be more likely to see i.e. roaming groups from k-space head down them then to see where they go and unexpected PVP occurrences as they wander back into k-space or branch off into w-space IMO).
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
#10 - 2014-10-23 00:50:21 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
signatures that require no scanning.
You mean anomalies.

"I don't want to bring a covert ops with my frigate gang!" Sounds pretty damn lazy to me.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#11 - 2014-10-23 01:10:02 UTC
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
signatures that require no scanning.
You mean anomalies.

"I don't want to bring a covert ops with my frigate gang!" Sounds pretty damn lazy to me.

I agree, I am often that cov-ops scanner on frig roams etc. Most of the negative I have heard till now about the frig wh was more about not much in them and the who takes frigs into a wh type of comments.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#12 - 2014-10-23 01:40:06 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
signatures that require no scanning.
You mean anomalies.

"I don't want to bring a covert ops with my frigate gang!" Sounds pretty damn lazy to me.

I agree, I am often that cov-ops scanner on frig roams etc. Most of the negative I have heard till now about the frig wh was more about not much in them and the who takes frigs into a wh type of comments.


There has been some confusion regarding what is what, so I figured I would spell it out so there is no confusion.

Yaay!!!!
Lugh Crow-Slave
#13 - 2014-10-23 23:38:14 UTC
let's not make it so even more things show up on the scanner without having to work for it.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#14 - 2014-10-24 00:10:28 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
The idea has merit, Rather than have it as an anomaly make it a very "Fat" signature that shows full resolution on the first wide pass of the probe scanner.

Then it would still need a "token" scan and would need an equipped ship, but quick and easy to resolve and bookmark.
A good quality of life change without the clear downsides where totally unequipped ships reap havoc and disruption.


However, Frig holes need to go somewhere, how does everyone feel about the idea of new wormhole classes accessed by them?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#15 - 2014-10-27 21:27:09 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
The idea has merit, Rather than have it as an anomaly make it a very "Fat" signature that shows full resolution on the first wide pass of the probe scanner.

Then it would still need a "token" scan and would need an equipped ship, but quick and easy to resolve and bookmark.
A good quality of life change without the clear downsides where totally unequipped ships reap havoc and disruption.


However, Frig holes need to go somewhere, how does everyone feel about the idea of new wormhole classes accessed by them?


I was thinking of a much more simpler concept. Even the Token pass is a pass most people will not do because generally.. people don't fit probe launchers on their DPS it all Ship. Those tend to be relegated to scan alts, or that one wierdo that is terrified of wormholes and fits them on everything he owns.

And having a mobile depot with probe launcher and probes is a hobbling idea. Most of us stuff our hulls with so much other crap (Cap boosters, bullets, missiles, women, drugs, plex), that making the M3 space for that is generally impractical for a frigate/destroyer pilot.

I believe that sometimes the simplest answer maybe the best. To make people use these wormholes, they need to be more visible and accessible. Sure any old noob could then fly their rookie ship into a frigate wormhole without scanning now.. and I believe that it is OK.

Yaay!!!!
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#16 - 2014-10-27 21:35:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Quote:
Let's assume they are here to stay. What can be done to improve them.


Oh, how about players stop being lazy and play the game again? If more play, more players find holes and can use them. Sitting in LOL, DOTA out other rubbish, waiting for a ping does not find holes.

What we do not need, however, are such ridiculous exceptions just to make the game unreasonably easy for the sake of enabling daft Angry Bird players to "play " it.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Hanna Cyrus
Spessart Rebellen
#17 - 2014-10-27 21:39:19 UTC
In my eyes, frig wormholes are a mistake. If i want frig fun, i join RvB, no scanning, a few jumps and action. The idiotic frig whs makes wh people nervous, nervous people are paranoid. If anything shrugs, they are all gone inside POS or offline. Small corps often haven't enough scouts to monitor all entrances and there's a lot incoming in the last time. So they log in, see five or more whs incoming and log off. Content for no one.

I think the frig wh was a mistake.