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Polarized weaponry (affectionately known as glass cannons)

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Soden Rah
Eve Navy
#441 - 2014-10-30 18:29:25 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
Soden Rah wrote:


I don't know.

I'll have a look when I get home and can boot up SiSi.

Have you tried searching the market with the keyword Polarized, rather than just looking under blasters?

Because that's how I picked up the ones I'm using.


Yes I did. Several times. Things I also tried:

1. Logging in and out repeatedly. Problem persists across several days now.

2. Checking and un-checking the checkbox for the visibility of items not on the local market. Everything else not available appears and disappears like it should. (Also all other Polarized weapons are seeded on the market, so they aren't influenced by this, but I wanted to be thorough.)

3. Closing and opening the market-window several times. No change.

From my point of view I can only conclude polarized medium blasters aren't there.



Ok it's not just you. I have a set happily fitted to my Thorax... and In my hanger.
But I can't see any on the market. They lack an option for viewing them on the market in their view info windows or r-click menus, and if you add them to the market quick bar it says "This item is not available on the market".

I'm going to go ahead and call this a bug.

I have just contracted 20 to you on SiSi to try out if you want.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#442 - 2014-10-30 21:00:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Owen Levanth
Soden Rah wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Soden Rah wrote:


I don't know.

I'll have a look when I get home and can boot up SiSi.

Have you tried searching the market with the keyword Polarized, rather than just looking under blasters?

Because that's how I picked up the ones I'm using.


Yes I did. Several times. Things I also tried:

1. Logging in and out repeatedly. Problem persists across several days now.

2. Checking and un-checking the checkbox for the visibility of items not on the local market. Everything else not available appears and disappears like it should. (Also all other Polarized weapons are seeded on the market, so they aren't influenced by this, but I wanted to be thorough.)

3. Closing and opening the market-window several times. No change.

From my point of view I can only conclude polarized medium blasters aren't there.



Ok it's not just you. I have a set happily fitted to my Thorax... and In my hanger.
But I can't see any on the market. They lack an option for viewing them on the market in their view info windows or r-click menus, and if you add them to the market quick bar it says "This item is not available on the market".

I'm going to go ahead and call this a bug.

I have just contracted 20 to you on SiSi to try out if you want.


Thanks, that does help with testing. (I also noticed the info-window for the weapons has "find in contracts" instead of "find market-details", so apparently someone messed something up when adding them into the game.)
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#443 - 2014-10-30 22:39:54 UTC
I didn't see Polaris weapons in the patch notes. Did they get bumped to the next release?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Soden Rah
Eve Navy
#444 - 2014-10-31 01:45:20 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I didn't see Polaris weapons in the patch notes. Did they get bumped to the next release?



It's very close to patch day. They will probably only do at most one more patch to SiSi before Phoebe hit's TQ.

So if they patch SiSi again and it still has these weapons then it's a good bet that they are in the release and
they just haven't added them to the patch notes yet.

Patch notes are works in progress until [and sometimes after] patch day.

If they are still working on balancing these weapons then they might not have the stats to put in the patch notes yet.

Or it's possible that they have pulled them so they can have more time to rework them*.

Which is my preferred option as of this moment.

*they don't need much work, just make them affordable, and boost the range.


Incidentally "Polaris weapons" sounds better than Polarized** and avoids the whole "how to you polarise a missile?" thing. If they are being delayed I vote for a "post final name change name change" from Polarized to Polaris.

**Damn American spellings...Evil
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#445 - 2014-10-31 06:49:46 UTC
Soden Rah wrote:
It's very close to patch day.

Sorry, I was referring to the official Phoebe patch/release notes which don't seem to have any reference to "Polaris" (or even "Blighted") weapons.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Vesan Terakol
Trollgrin Sadface
Dark Taboo
#446 - 2014-10-31 09:12:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Vesan Terakol
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Soden Rah wrote:
It's very close to patch day.

Sorry, I was referring to the official Phoebe patch/release notes which don't seem to have any reference to "Polaris" (or even "Blighted") weapons.


This feature wasn't meant to be part of Phoebe. It was announced for Rhea during EVE Vegas.

P.S. Is there any information about the source of those weapons?
Are they going to be invented like other t2 or will the BPC come from exploration sites (like most of the other newly introduced modules)?
What will be the factor to drive their prices up? Will they use faction weapon components (added in exploration sites in Phoebe)?
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#447 - 2014-10-31 14:23:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Owen Levanth
So, I tested some polarized weapons know and my verdict:

Not impressed. Seriously, for neutralizing all your resists the weapons are simply too weak.

I've tested against some harmless rats and even though most of the time every rat died when I pointed the weapons at them, I was only marginally faster then with normal T2-blasters.

Now I could envision some weird PVP-setup where you pack your Arazu full with them, decloak right next to a surprised enemy and then paste him. The trouble with that is: Your DPS is far too low to pull this off, since you're practically helpless while doing this.

I can see someone try something similar with a Blackbird or a Falcon, since ECM is their first line of defense, anyway. Pilgrim is again the redheaded stepchild, thanks to being bonused for drones/neuts.

Of course, you could instead use normal T2-weapons in this way and could actually survive. Polarized weapons just push up your killmail-value.

Maybe someone could try a cloaky Zealot for the polarized pulse lasers, but this seems risky.

The large polarized seem to be all suicide, no gain. I guess you could at least use the turret-versions on battlecruisers like the Oracle and the torps on bombers.

All in all, I think this conecpt can work, but right now it's too niche. If they make those things buildable by dropping parts and BPCs in exploration, I think explorers will be the most disappointed.

To be useful, the weapons either need to get way more powerful, or the stupid 0-resist effects needs to get at least halved.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#448 - 2014-10-31 15:16:09 UTC
Vesan Terakol wrote:
This feature wasn't meant to be part of Phoebe. It was announced for Rhea during EVE Vegas.

"The new weapons as teased at EVE Vegas 2014 for the Pheobe release in November."
Unless I missed an update somewhere?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Soden Rah
Eve Navy
#449 - 2014-10-31 15:45:41 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
So, I tested some polarized weapons know and my verdict:

Not impressed. Seriously, for neutralizing all your resists the weapons are simply too weak.

I've tested against some harmless rats and even though most of the time every rat died when I pointed the weapons at them, I was only marginally faster then with normal T2-blasters.

Now I could envision some weird PVP-setup where you pack your Arazu full with them, decloak right next to a surprised enemy and then paste him. The trouble with that is: Your DPS is far too low to pull this off, since you're practically helpless while doing this.

I can see someone try something similar with a Blackbird or a Falcon, since ECM is their first line of defense, anyway. Pilgrim is again the redheaded stepchild, thanks to being bonused for drones/neuts.

Of course, you could instead use normal T2-weapons in this way and could actually survive. Polarized weapons just push up your killmail-value.

Maybe someone could try a cloaky Zealot for the polarized pulse lasers, but this seems risky.

The large polarized seem to be all suicide, no gain. I guess you could at least use the turret-versions on battlecruisers like the Oracle and the torps on bombers.

All in all, I think this conecpt can work, but right now it's too niche. If they make those things buildable by dropping parts and BPCs in exploration, I think explorers will be the most disappointed.

To be useful, the weapons either need to get way more powerful, or the stupid 0-resist effects needs to get at least halved.




I agree that they don't work as 'intended', as much as we can guess what they are 'intended' to be without anyone from CCP saying anything about what they are designing them for, which makes proper testing basically impossible till they hit TQ and really large numbers of people start trying to figure out a use for them.

However, I think you are falling into the same trap I did when I first tried these weapons.

You tested them solo.

I think these are meant for small gang warfare... [and places where people speed tank/kite]

I mean who goes out SOLO in a glass cannon?

In a solo engagement the enemy is GOING to be shooting at you. If you have no tank [either speed/shield/armour/or hull]
then you are going to die very fast.

In a small gang fight it's quite possible/likely that someone else is the target, and a few glass cannon ships can fit in the mix.
OR you are going for soooo much fire-power that whatever you attack dies before it can hurt you anyway. suicide ganking falls into this category.

My problem is that these turrets give you a nice slice of extra dps... and then take it away by dropping the effective range.
Meaning that applying this damage is harder. It's not practically possible to effectively orbit a target [and get under their guns] with the reduced blaster ranges of these "Polaris" weapons. [It's a better name, I'm sticking with it]

Particularly on ships fit to be able to close really fast which is a necessity on blaster boats.


These weapons need to be geared for fast kiteing speed tank fits and that requires that they get a range boost not nerf.

Or CCP might have some other use in mind we haven't thought of....
Bjurn Akely
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#450 - 2014-10-31 17:20:59 UTC
I did some math at work this night. For my style of fighting this is going to work really well. The weapons are for from under-powered. But using them in brawls or (most) PvE is probably not the way to go. I am fine with this as I think any new weapons should be edge cases and specializations for a special and narrow task. After all, weapons work fine as they are now. There is balance.
Soden Rah
Eve Navy
#451 - 2014-10-31 17:33:02 UTC
Bjurn Akely wrote:
I did some math at work this night. For my style of fighting this is going to work really well. The weapons are for from under-powered. But using them in brawls or (most) PvE is probably not the way to go. I am fine with this as I think any new weapons should be edge cases and specializations for a special and narrow task. After all, weapons work fine as they are now. There is balance.



Ok... Great.

What's your style of fighting that you think benefits from these weapons?
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
#452 - 2014-10-31 18:23:34 UTC
I would really like to see them (CCP) rework this into a feature in over-heating, for weapon modules, that would do the same thing as I stated before, maybe it was a wall of text, so for consideration:

Standard -> Over-heating -> Overloading

Standard = as is
Over-heating = we all know this one that have done it and use it.
Overloading =
1. damage = x amount of standard - balanced as needed but significant to be applicable to the use and risk/reward.
2. heat damage = x amount of heat - again balanced but to a degree that the amount of damage is in balance with the above and,...
3. Module damage from heat = no repair on that module, so you can fire as long as it is able, but damage is like ammo, and once it's burned out, it's burned out for good, and you have to buy another one.
4. Resists = since you are overloading your weapons, you are basically sending in over amounts of power to them, this has to come from somewhere, and this is where resists go down - you have re-routed the power from this to the weapons = you are now a glass cannon of sorts, (buffer tanks and all still apply, but resists are 0%) until you repair.

Now this can use all existing mechanics in the game, and doesn't require new modules, it makes the existing ones have an expendable mode of operation, where they then become like ammo - they are used up. This alone makes this concept better, it will drive market, as well as give players choices rather than limitations in the way they use existing ships and modules and how their tactics evolve, as well as making the expectation of what someone else might do tactically broader - since someone can now with the flip of a switch turn a ship that is normal or could be over-heated, into a very nasty but gimped glass cannon if the decided to up the stakes and risk it all on a single or couple shots (depending on how this is implemented) before they lose the ability to shoot and have to deal while doing it and after with no resists.

Optionally there could be a timer on the resists - as the weapons burn out or the mode is turned off, they could either come back online, or have a timer to come back up slowly to normal as the power returns to them... etc.

Thank you for reading, I hope this idea gains some +1s and support.

Bjurn Akely
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#453 - 2014-10-31 18:25:50 UTC
Soden Rah wrote:
Bjurn Akely wrote:
I did some math at work this night. For my style of fighting this is going to work really well. The weapons are for from under-powered. But using them in brawls or (most) PvE is probably not the way to go. I am fine with this as I think any new weapons should be edge cases and specializations for a special and narrow task. After all, weapons work fine as they are now. There is balance.



Ok... Great.

What's your style of fighting that you think benefits from these weapons?


Tanked HIC holding stuff while long range does DPS. Just a question of making sure the targets can not reach the DPS. . .

But it's a special case. Something that I foresee being put to use once in a while and not a regular fit. That thing is key. I think the people thinking this is to under-powered want a replacement weapon system. Something fitted always. I see it as an option used in special cases.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#454 - 2014-10-31 18:35:41 UTC
Bjurn Akely wrote:
Soden Rah wrote:
Bjurn Akely wrote:
I did some math at work this night. For my style of fighting this is going to work really well. The weapons are for from under-powered. But using them in brawls or (most) PvE is probably not the way to go. I am fine with this as I think any new weapons should be edge cases and specializations for a special and narrow task. After all, weapons work fine as they are now. There is balance.



Ok... Great.

What's your style of fighting that you think benefits from these weapons?


Tanked HIC holding stuff while long range does DPS. Just a question of making sure the targets can not reach the DPS. . .

But it's a special case. Something that I foresee being put to use once in a while and not a regular fit. That thing is key. I think the people thinking this is to under-powered want a replacement weapon system. Something fitted always. I see it as an option used in special cases.


Personally, I would prefer something like the mode-change for the new T3-destroyers. A mode giving more firepower while lowering your defenses. Practically what the weapons are supposed to be right now, just without completely dropping the resists.

But this is because I abhor extremes and would never fit Polarized weapons as they are now. I tend to like having a plan for emergencies and not having any resists sounds like just inviting disaster to me.

One test fit I tried used plates and two active armor-reps to give at least some survivability. But: It turns out I could fit the ship normally with tank and T2-weapons and would have ended up with more DPS. That's kind of what I mean: Why should I ever use Polarized weapons if the difference to normal weapons is so low? I can just fit 1-2 more weapon mods and suddenly I have more DPS.

Or I guess I can solely fit for damage on my Polarized-ship and hope I never get hit.

On the other hand, if those "glass cannons" see a lot of use in gangs and fleets, I'll quitely accept this. More stuff for my main to find while doing exploration. I just don't want Polarized weapons ending up so useless they'll end up shitting my part of the game, too. P
Benetavo Saraki
Kaede Industries
#455 - 2014-10-31 18:57:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Benetavo Saraki
Throwing an idea out there. My apologies if I missed someone else with a similar idea in the multiple pages of the thread.

I've seen complaints that the resists dropping to zero is severe compared to a not-that-stellar damage bump. Why not link the two? The weapon damage is buffed based on how much resist total you lost. If you have really high resists, you get more damage out of the polarized weapon.

Could be an interesting fitting dynamic if fitting for more resist bumps your polarized weapon damage above and beyond what it normally would be and still leaves you at 0% resist. And the real benefit of going the polarized weapon route, means you can buff dmg from dmg mods and resist mods without a stacking penalty between the two.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#456 - 2014-10-31 19:05:55 UTC
what if you would only lose resists when you fire?

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
#457 - 2014-11-01 15:15:16 UTC
Glad to see we can invent and build these things on SiSi....oh wait...we can't....anyone want to put money down on if we won't be able to build them come patchday? (i'm guessing CCP has stopped looking at this thread, so not worried about tipping them off to their usual mistake when releasing T2 items)
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#458 - 2014-11-01 19:56:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Looking at the overall stats, it would appear as though the stats on at least the large Polarized weapons fall short of Officer weapons. While that does make sense, it also means that the DPS of Polarized weapons is more or less set in stone. So what we have is a series of short-range weapons that do more damage than comparable Faction or T2 versions at probably double what current Faction weapons cost.

As others have alluded to, the complete loss of resistances tend to preclude use of these weapons outside select mission blitzing and structure grinding. Consequently, they're almost certainly going to be cost prohibitive for ganking, PvP and general PvE use. While I appreciate the initial intent, unless the cost of these new weapons are brought down significantly I just don't see them being utilized.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

J'Poll
MUSE LLP
RAZOR Alliance
#459 - 2014-11-02 03:03:04 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Kerplakershtat Rova wrote:
Do these drop total resists or just base resists to 0%?


Given how it was worded in the original post, I'm going to say it sounds very strongly like your resistances are fixed at 0% and cannot be increased.


Soke people really should have paid more attention at math classes.

If a module adds 40% resist to a resist of 0...the outcome will be....0.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

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Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
#460 - 2014-11-02 03:39:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lil' Brudder Too
J'Poll wrote:


Soke people really should have paid more attention at math classes.

If a module adds 40% resist to a resist of 0...the outcome will be....0.

ummm, resists are not multiplicative (sp?)....they add the % of the difference between the starting resist and 100. installing a module that adds 40%, to a ship that has a 0%, will infact add 40%, since that is .4 of the difference between 0 and 100. Try this out yourself by putting a EM resist mod on a base ship, and tell me if the resist stays at 0, or if it raises to the amount of the module.

These modules however just delete all resists at the end-state, so nothing can raise them.

Anywho, can we stop asking the same question that has been answered repeatedly throughout this thread and get CCP's attention to the things that are still wonky with these new guns?