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Do Away With Skillbooks (or) Allow Injection Without PreRequisites
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Meat Missile
#1 - 2014-10-20 06:45:35 UTC
New players begin in a station with almost every skillbook they need. Now they join a nullsec group and are paying 5x markup for only half of the skillbooks (if that) they need to train.

What's that? Need to go to highsec every few days to buy another set of skillbooks? Too bad you maxed out your jump fatigue and have to go 50+ jumps ONE WAY now to the nearest skillbook seeded hub.

Why not cut out the bullshit and either have skills you can train appear to just begin training (or) allow people to inject all the skillbooks they can financially afford before they can train them.

Bulk P4 available for sale for less than Jita sell. Delivered to your highsec system of choice. Email for a quote today.
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#2 - 2014-10-20 07:26:16 UTC
Solution: buy the skill books you require in the next weeks/months, bring them to the station where you are located and leave them in your own area within the station.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#3 - 2014-10-20 08:06:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
2nd Solution:
Use an alt in an inty or fast cloaker to ferry the books. Plan ahead.


Seriously though. You made the decision to move AWAY from civilization to join up with a crew at a dirty digsite.
The pay, the independence, and the comraderie may be good, but you're still sleeping in a tent and paying through the nose to have things delivered.
Working as intended.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#4 - 2014-10-20 08:38:54 UTC
Meat Missile wrote:
New players begin in a station with almost every skillbook they need. Now they join a nullsec group and are paying 5x markup for only half of the skillbooks (if that) they need to train.

What's that? Need to go to highsec every few days to buy another set of skillbooks? Too bad you maxed out your jump fatigue and have to go 50+ jumps ONE WAY now to the nearest skillbook seeded hub.


What does a new player want in Null sec in the first place? You are nothing but a burden to the local players because you cannot do anything meaningful. You can't properly scout, you can't properly make money, you can't properly take part in fleets, you can't properly defend yourself when you travel, you can't properly travel in the first place. As a completely new player, you are supposed to learn the game first before you go anywhere outside High sec and not dive into an area of space, which requires an immense level of skill (both in terms or points and experience) from you (despite the rubbish that CCP tells you).

And if you still want to go there regardless of every experienced player telling you against it then you are not supposed to have it easy without proper planning and proper support. If you go into lawless space, you pay the price for doing so either by paying markups to the items bought in the market or by having to cumbersomely import stuff that you can't find, or you have to ask your supporting alliance/corp to bring it in for you (which brings me back to paragraph 1).

If you are, however, just an alt of an experienced player, then you have exactly no reason either to have it easier than other players and you should have already known well beforehand what to expect from going deep into lawless space. Not taking proper precautions and preparations, however, is no justification for changes in the system.

Conclusion: personal failure and overeagerness are no reason for systematic changes. -1

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5 - 2014-10-20 08:48:34 UTC
Meat Missile wrote:
New players begin in a station with almost every skillbook they need. Now they join a nullsec group and are paying 5x markup for only half of the skillbooks (if that) they need to train.

What's that? Need to go to highsec every few days to buy another set of skillbooks? Too bad you maxed out your jump fatigue and have to go 50+ jumps ONE WAY now to the nearest skillbook seeded hub.

Why not cut out the bullshit and either have skills you can train appear to just begin training (or) allow people to inject all the skillbooks they can financially afford before they can train them.

That's the Null corps fault for not simply tagging the books onto another shipment. 100 skillbooks takes how much room for a trader to bring out?
If they are charging the newbie 5* the market price, they have only themselves to blame.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-10-20 09:08:50 UTC
The skillbooks provide an additional commodity for haulers and traders to bring out to nullsec, wormhole space, and other remote areas, to resell to other players for some semi-reasonable margin, or what the others are willing to pay anyway.

Keep skillbooks as they are, with the inconveniences they have.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-10-20 09:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ix Method
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
That's the Null corps fault for not simply tagging the books onto another shipment. 100 skillbooks takes how much room for a trader to bring out?
If they are charging the newbie 5* the market price, they have only themselves to blame.

OP's own signature wrote:
Bulk P4 available for sale for less than Jita sell. Delivered to your highsec system of choice. Email for a quote today.

I think I've found a solution to your problem.

Travelling at the speed of love.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-10-20 09:16:45 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
What does a new player want in Null sec in the first place? You are nothing but a burden to the local players because you cannot do anything meaningful. You can't properly scout, you can't properly make money, you can't properly take part in fleets, you can't properly defend yourself when you travel, you can't properly travel in the first place. As a completely new player, you are supposed to learn the game first before you go anywhere outside High sec and not dive into an area of space, which requires an immense level of skill (both in terms or points and experience) from you (despite the rubbish that CCP tells you).

Wrong, wrong and more wrong. Newbies are awesome and useful in fleets.

There's nothing like the squee of a newbie that tackles its first ship and causes its death that way. Nothing. Stop being a hater.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#9 - 2014-10-20 09:31:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Lord TGR wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
What does a new player want in Null sec in the first place? You are nothing but a burden to the local players because you cannot do anything meaningful. You can't properly scout, you can't properly make money, you can't properly take part in fleets, you can't properly defend yourself when you travel, you can't properly travel in the first place. As a completely new player, you are supposed to learn the game first before you go anywhere outside High sec and not dive into an area of space, which requires an immense level of skill (both in terms or points and experience) from you (despite the rubbish that CCP tells you).

Wrong, wrong and more wrong. Newbies are awesome and useful in fleets.

There's nothing like the squee of a newbie that tackles its first ship and causes its death that way. Nothing. Stop being a hater.


That is your opinion. And if you find them so awesome, support them properly with what they need. Apparently, however, more people think my way seeing that newbies are treated like the OP apparently is. And I find this just about the correct way to do it.
Unless you are not properly supported and do not choose a properly supporting alliance/corp, you as a newbie have absolutely no business in Null sec and even less rights to demand changes of such magnitude to support your carefree behavior.

His sig, just to point it out, even points to the second type of newbie I pointed out in my comment and they are in an even lower position to demand this kind of change. As outlined above. We don't need more apes and Angry Birds players in the game, we need more capable players, who know what they are doing and who can support themselves properly. This change (both variations) would just undermine this need.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-10-20 09:33:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
2nd Solution:
Use an alt in an inty or fast cloaker to ferry the books. Plan ahead.




--Gadget



a related solution....use covert ops and maybe venture into a wh or 2. One day a corp mate really bored, played around in the wh that opened up in a system next to corp station. And in very little time found an exit that had a one way trip to jita in 7 jumps. 14 round jumps trip from heart of delve not too shabby really. Ran transports for all its worth what he did while the route still good.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-10-20 09:56:19 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
That is your opinion. And if you find them so awesome, support them properly with what they need.

We do.

Rivr Luzade wrote:
Apparently, however, more people think my way seeing that newbies are treated like the OP apparently is.

And people think of supercaps as the endgame. They're just as wrong.

Rivr Luzade wrote:
And I find this just about the correct way to do it.
Unless you are not properly supported and do not choose a properly supporting alliance/corp, you as a newbie have absolutely no business in Null sec and even less rights to demand changes of such magnitude to support your carefree behavior.

His sig, just to point it out, even points to the second type of newbie I pointed out in my comment and they are in an even lower position to demand this kind of change. As outlined above. We don't need more apes and Angry Birds players in the game, we need more capable players, who know what they are doing and who can support themselves properly. This change (both variations) would just undermine this need.

Actually, adding of skillbooks for which the pre-requisites haven't been trained is something I, as someone who's been playing actively since 2009, and off and on since 2005, still find annoying. Now that they're adding the unlimited skill queue, it would be beneficial if I can buy all the skillbooks, inject them, and then just not be able to start training until all the prerequisites are met. This makes it a quality of life change which in no way impacts the idea behind the skilltraining, and only surly bitter vets would argue otherwise.
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2014-10-20 10:00:17 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:

Actually, adding of skillbooks for which the pre-requisites haven't been trained is something I, as someone who's been playing actively since 2009, and off and on since 2005, still find annoying. Now that they're adding the unlimited skill queue, it would be beneficial if I can buy all the skillbooks, inject them, and then just not be able to start training until all the prerequisites are met. This makes it a quality of life change which in no way impacts the idea behind the skilltraining, and only surly bitter vets would argue otherwise.


I'd even support going 1 step further, not only allow the books to be injected, but allow them to be added to the skillqueue on the condition the prereq exists in the queue before them.

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2014-10-20 10:05:04 UTC
suid0 wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:

Actually, adding of skillbooks for which the pre-requisites haven't been trained is something I, as someone who's been playing actively since 2009, and off and on since 2005, still find annoying. Now that they're adding the unlimited skill queue, it would be beneficial if I can buy all the skillbooks, inject them, and then just not be able to start training until all the prerequisites are met. This makes it a quality of life change which in no way impacts the idea behind the skilltraining, and only surly bitter vets would argue otherwise.


I'd even support going 1 step further, not only allow the books to be injected, but allow them to be added to the skillqueue on the condition the prereq exists in the queue before them.

Maybe even go a step or two beyond that again, add all untrained (but injected prerequisites) ahead of the skill you just injected, and if you still end up with missing prerequisites, just leave the skill inactive in the queue, and reactivate it when/if the prerequisites are ever injected/finished.
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2014-10-20 10:23:10 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
suid0 wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:

Actually, adding of skillbooks for which the pre-requisites haven't been trained is something I, as someone who's been playing actively since 2009, and off and on since 2005, still find annoying. Now that they're adding the unlimited skill queue, it would be beneficial if I can buy all the skillbooks, inject them, and then just not be able to start training until all the prerequisites are met. This makes it a quality of life change which in no way impacts the idea behind the skilltraining, and only surly bitter vets would argue otherwise.


I'd even support going 1 step further, not only allow the books to be injected, but allow them to be added to the skillqueue on the condition the prereq exists in the queue before them.

Maybe even go a step or two beyond that again, add all untrained (but injected prerequisites) ahead of the skill you just injected, and if you still end up with missing prerequisites, just leave the skill inactive in the queue, and reactivate it when/if the prerequisites are ever injected/finished.


Indeed, and skills with unmet prerequisites ahead of them could visually differer in colour in the queue.

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2014-10-20 11:18:49 UTC
How about everyone gets all the skills at V when they create the character

and free ships and modular implants

also automatic PVE looting and PVP arenas
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#16 - 2014-10-20 11:38:20 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
suid0 wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:

Actually, adding of skillbooks for which the pre-requisites haven't been trained is something I, as someone who's been playing actively since 2009, and off and on since 2005, still find annoying. Now that they're adding the unlimited skill queue, it would be beneficial if I can buy all the skillbooks, inject them, and then just not be able to start training until all the prerequisites are met. This makes it a quality of life change which in no way impacts the idea behind the skilltraining, and only surly bitter vets would argue otherwise.


I'd even support going 1 step further, not only allow the books to be injected, but allow them to be added to the skillqueue on the condition the prereq exists in the queue before them.

Maybe even go a step or two beyond that again, add all untrained (but injected prerequisites) ahead of the skill you just injected, and if you still end up with missing prerequisites, just leave the skill inactive in the queue, and reactivate it when/if the prerequisites are ever injected/finished.


Basically eliminating any risk with the transport of these skills? Sure thing.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2014-10-20 11:44:23 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:
suid0 wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:

Actually, adding of skillbooks for which the pre-requisites haven't been trained is something I, as someone who's been playing actively since 2009, and off and on since 2005, still find annoying. Now that they're adding the unlimited skill queue, it would be beneficial if I can buy all the skillbooks, inject them, and then just not be able to start training until all the prerequisites are met. This makes it a quality of life change which in no way impacts the idea behind the skilltraining, and only surly bitter vets would argue otherwise.


I'd even support going 1 step further, not only allow the books to be injected, but allow them to be added to the skillqueue on the condition the prereq exists in the queue before them.

Maybe even go a step or two beyond that again, add all untrained (but injected prerequisites) ahead of the skill you just injected, and if you still end up with missing prerequisites, just leave the skill inactive in the queue, and reactivate it when/if the prerequisites are ever injected/finished.


Basically eliminating any risk with the transport of these skills? Sure thing.

I could of course install a JC in jita and just keep jumping in there if I need any skills, thus eliminating any risk with the transport of these skills.
Grave Digger Eriker
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-10-20 12:01:29 UTC
Join a good Nullsec group that more often than not just give you all the basic skillbooks for free.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#19 - 2014-10-20 12:46:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Lord TGR wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Basically eliminating any risk with the transport of these skills? Sure thing.

I could of course install a JC in jita and just keep jumping in there if I need any skills, thus eliminating any risk with the transport of these skills.


You are stuck in Jita then for at least 19 hours. Not to mention that you also pay a premium in most cases if you buy skills in Jita. Or if you deathclone back, the JC is gone. Everytime. JCing has some severe consequences.

Whereas, being able to inject hundreds of skills into your skill queue and skill tree and then never return to High sec or Low sec, not to mention that no one can take the skills once they are in your queue/tree, bears no consequences at all for the char.

Both methods are very different and barely, if at all, comparable.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2014-10-20 12:55:15 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
You are stuck in Jita then for at least 19 hours. Not to mention that you also pay a premium in most cases if you buy skills in Jita. Or if you deathclone back, the JC is gone. Everytime. JCing has some severe consequences.

Whereas, being able to inject hundreds of skills into your skill queue and skill tree and then never return to High sec or Low sec, not to mention that no one can take the skills once they are in your queue/tree, bears no consequences at all for the char.

Both methods are very different and barely, if at all, comparable.

But the skills are completely safe.
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