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Tech 3 destroyerness (D3's)
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Aladar Dangerface
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-10-19 09:56:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Aladar Dangerface
So how we all feeling about these? Looking forward to the new meta? Will this bring people back into whs?

I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-10-19 10:05:03 UTC
It's a positive step that should help the wormhole economy and attract new players.

I'm more interested to learn what this means for T3 cruisers. If they could swap roles on the fly like this, it could be interesting.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Aladar Dangerface
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-10-19 10:17:26 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
It's a positive step that should help the wormhole economy and attract new players.

I'm more interested to learn what this means for T3 cruisers. If they could swap roles on the fly like this, it could be interesting.


Yes, I think we will just have to wait until they announce how they are gona fix t3 cruisers. At least frig holes are not completely useless now

I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.
Winthorp
#4 - 2014-10-19 10:32:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Winthorp
I have been nagging Corbexx endlessly on skype about this (poor guy). I am in two minds on this as i see the massive downside to them overlooking rebalancing/fixing T3 cruisers. With the new destroyers not looking to be released for a little while i don't have any optimism left that they are currently working on T3 cruisers or looking to work on them in the near future, that ship has sailed i think.

I am still gratefull however that WH's will get a buff income increase with the new destroyer having its resources coming from existing T3 products.

I am bittersweet on this one...
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#5 - 2014-10-19 11:34:02 UTC
Could be the new tech 3 destroyers are a new view on how to use tech 3, and if successful they might incorporate that knowledge into balancing tech 3 cruisers.

I feel one of the major issues of balancing tech 3 cruisers is that there exists no other ship that can be so flexible as them, thereby lacking any frame of reference to check what they should do.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
Aladar Dangerface
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-10-19 12:15:17 UTC
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
Could be the new tech 3 destroyers are a new view on how to use tech 3, and if successful they might incorporate that knowledge into balancing tech 3 cruisers.

I feel one of the major issues of balancing tech 3 cruisers is that there exists no other ship that can be so flexible as them, thereby lacking any frame of reference to check what they should do.


That was my thoughts also. Kinda what they said of the new deployables in that they could use the code for reworking pos's. They can us the t3 desto's as a template for how to fix t3 cruisers.

Oh and we need to come up with a new name for this type of ship since we cant call them t3s^*

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Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-10-19 12:45:39 UTC
Aladar Dangerface wrote:
Oh and we need to come up with a new name for this type of ship since we cant call them t3s^*

D3's? Smile
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#8 - 2014-10-19 13:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
This is the main testing bed for the future of t3's. Currently ccp really does not have much control over them. They can't regulate its speed, tank, dps, fittings, or stats without everybody calling it a flat out nerf.

If they introduce "stances", essentially ccp can base stat the t3 cruisers, and instead of having mega extremes, forces the users to choose a stance which enhances its base stats. It basically means no more 800+ dps proteus with a 100,000 tank, or a neut legion with a 200,000 tank, or 100mn tengu's. What this does mean is that the player has more micro control over their ship to deal with the situation at the time, and ccp can gain some control over the t3.

Need to get closer, switch to speed, need to tank more alpha, switch to defense, all out dos, switch to offense. The concept is very sound and makes t3's a bit more tactile.

But the base stats will go down, but their stance stats will probably be higher than they are currently. It is a bit of a gamble, because if ccp does go that way, that means they will probably get rid of subsystems entirely, and roll in the subsystem material costs into the base construction of the ship, making the ship take more materials to build, and making building them a bit more simple. Doing this then allows ccp to begin creating new ship sets.
Will it work, depends, but I believe it will.

How they will wrangle in the cloaking subsystems, the resistance subsystems and the ewar subsystems is another matter.

Yaay!!!!
Aladar Dangerface
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-10-19 14:01:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Aladar Dangerface
Jessica Duranin wrote:
Aladar Dangerface wrote:
Oh and we need to come up with a new name for this type of ship since we cant call them t3s^*

D3's? Smile


D3's, i like it, short and sweet.

Updated my title of this post with it already :)

I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#10 - 2014-10-19 14:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Not sure really. I do like that they are doing something unique with them as the last thing I want to see is a spam of t3 frigs, battlecruisers, battleships, etc. etc. and just make t3 mundane but a little disappointed that they don't use sub-systems but sound like they could be fun for people who like that style of gameplay but its not for me.

One of the things that has kept me playing the game is the almost endless possibilities for configuring t3 cruisers - its almost like building a character in itself. These fall way short of that and I don't want to see it used as a template for t3 changes.

I think I'm gonna hear the crysis "maximum armour", etc. announce in my head changing modes in a D3.
Brazilian Dream
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-10-19 15:54:44 UTC
T3s are so classy and awesomely fun to mess around with
I spend hours switching their subs in order to achieve different fits. ..
Don't want them changed, sorry.
I like these new dessies, just don't want their T3ness applied to my Legion.
(Sorry for NPC posting I'm too lazy to switch back to the old forum shaitposter)
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-10-19 16:04:04 UTC
I'm on the fence. While dessies were neglected for a while, I don't like the way they changed them. One of the biggest things that balanced destroyer's 7-8 highslots was the lowish PG/CPU. To me this smells like it's going to follow the T3+Guard doctrine being the end-all doctrine of WH roams, and I'm hoping that I'm dead wrong. With the last few patches and WH events, I can't shake the feeling that nobody in CCP lives in WHs or bothered to talk to anyone in wh space about what they want to see happen.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#13 - 2014-10-19 16:35:57 UTC
I'm looking forward to increased activity in wspace as people seek to capitalize on new hull manufacturin . As we as the boost to income because it'll draw more pilots.

Also 3 pilots with dessie 5 so I got that going for me which is nice.

Overall balance of t3 looming in the distance does still concern me. I must echo Roff on the point that I'd not like the reduction in fitting complexities to existing t3 cruisers.

I'm right behind you
Jestor's Testor
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-10-19 18:40:48 UTC
It looks like an elite ship entry level so newer people can enjoy lower leet powered ships in the chain...

I support this for the most part...

Another step in the ladder that makes you feel accomplished...
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#15 - 2014-10-19 19:39:49 UTC
Here is a viable question... Can they covops cloak?

And if they can't'.. Will they suck?

Yaay!!!!
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-10-19 19:54:12 UTC
I would rather call them tri-stroyers since they have 3 modes.
I hope this will get more people into w-space!

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Agatir Solenth
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-10-19 22:05:34 UTC
Had they done this to BS instead of destroyers, I would of been excited. This doesn't do a lot for an older SP player. It will give a small bump Wspace income potential. Again BSs would have done more for that too.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#18 - 2014-10-19 23:28:12 UTC
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2jmw7j/tech_3_destroyers_coming/ for those that don't google stuff...

Sounds pretty terrible:

Black Holes will wreck your strategy unless they release the one and only good (read: lml-using) dessi.
Pulsars: can't fight cause sigbloom rendering your tank nonexistant. Like a pulsar does to all - ALL - frigs.
Cataclysmic: Good luck finding the one group of derpheads you can actually break
wolf rayet: waste of time, use something with light missiles instead. Alternatively, field dessis against light missiles mkay.

So, expecting the worst from CCP, there will be one LML-bonused T3 dessi to wreck all of the things, and a bunch of other, utterly useless hangarqueens - besides the gallente one cause that one will end up having sufficient structure HP to develop an armortank with acceptable ehp through armor+hull/dcu. Well played. In addition, they'll be 100% inferior to assault frigs cause the two important values you got on that level (sigradius, buffer) are both - expecting the power creep - most likely to be barely better than t1 according to an earlier power level scheme.

So what would be useful:
sample gallente destroyer - 6h 3m 4l - catalyst dps, eris resists, slightly more structure hp, massive projection boni.
what ccp will hand to us - borked layout with 2 mids, 3 lows but look it has good hullboni and you got those three modes and 8 highs to fit 8 guns! - totally ignoring that weapon hardpoint highs really don't count besides the effective resulting turrets (looking at you, ferox, maelstrom, rokh, RNI with your wasted highrack combobreaker - and effectively handing us a catalyst without dps or significant fitting choices and all dem wasted oppurtunities again, but look it can flap and tell jokes, or switch modes w/e.
Winthorp
#19 - 2014-10-20 00:41:29 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2jmw7j/tech_3_destroyers_coming/ for those that don't google stuff...

Sounds pretty terrible:

Black Holes will wreck your strategy unless they release the one and only good (read: lml-using) dessi.
Pulsars: can't fight cause sigbloom rendering your tank nonexistant. Like a pulsar does to all - ALL - frigs.
Cataclysmic: Good luck finding the one group of derpheads you can actually break
wolf rayet: waste of time, use something with light missiles instead. Alternatively, field dessis against light missiles mkay.

So, expecting the worst from CCP, there will be one LML-bonused T3 dessi to wreck all of the things, and a bunch of other, utterly useless hangarqueens - besides the gallente one cause that one will end up having sufficient structure HP to develop an armortank with acceptable ehp through armor+hull/dcu. Well played. In addition, they'll be 100% inferior to assault frigs cause the two important values you got on that level (sigradius, buffer) are both - expecting the power creep - most likely to be barely better than t1 according to an earlier power level scheme.

So what would be useful:
sample gallente destroyer - 6h 3m 4l - catalyst dps, eris resists, slightly more structure hp, massive projection boni.
what ccp will hand to us - borked layout with 2 mids, 3 lows but look it has good hullboni and you got those three modes and 8 highs to fit 8 guns! - totally ignoring that weapon hardpoint highs really don't count besides the effective resulting turrets (looking at you, ferox, maelstrom, rokh, RNI with your wasted highrack combobreaker - and effectively handing us a catalyst without dps or significant fitting choices and all dem wasted oppurtunities again, but look it can flap and tell jokes, or switch modes w/e.



This guy gets it, i dont at all see them becoming useful in WH space. They will only get used in LS and Null honestly not that that is a bad thing as it drives demand.

People saying that this will bring people into WH space to build the hulls are incorrect also as most builders build everything in hs with buying mats from jita.

The only good side to this for WH space is the base buff to salvage price increases that will come from this and those reaction farms in C1's the odd pos in inhabited home systems.
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#20 - 2014-10-20 04:19:32 UTC
Any new frigs I am ok with, frig pvp is p sweet.

They won't be used at all in w-space, but w/e.
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