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Hard Stripes --Ship Replacement Upgrade
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2014-10-31 15:25:21 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

Because the damage output lost by using the so-called free ship at least doubles, (if not more than), the number of pilots required to fly them.

The time lost maintaining and using these pilots, even if simply alts, would be more than the time needed to earn the ISK to buy the better ship.

These are not intended to be cost effective, in the sense you are concerned with here.


So in the simple use case I am outlining where a ganker with multi-box or several friends wants to kill a freighter you are saying that te BS sized free ships would have half or less the dps that the usual paid for gank cats would have? Given that the target is a freighter and therefore is simply bumped to keep from warping and cannot speed tank. I doubt that very much in which case these freebies would be a godsend to gankers and anathema to cat producers for a start.

There have been many cases put forward against these ships (no matter how often you go la-la-la- I'm not listeneing). There really is no point to them and no way they could not impact the market.
Takeshi Kumamato
Blaze Orange Expeditions
#202 - 2014-10-31 15:47:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Kumamato
Nikk Narrel wrote:

Damage amount: 100 DPS Thermal
Weapons Range: 40km
Signature resolution: 700 m
Tracking Speed: 0.004 rad/sec
Warp Speed: 1.4 AU/s
Maximum Locked Targets: 2
Targeting Range: 40km
Signature radius: 900m
Scan Resolution: 30mm
Sensor Strength: 10 points
Top Speed: 50m/s
Mass: 200,000,000 kg
Inertia modifier: 0.2x
Shield capacity: 10000 EM: 0% Exp: 50% Kin: 40% Therm: 0%
Armor capacity: 5000 EM: 50% Exp: 10% Kin: 25% Therm: 0%
Hull: 6000
Shield recharge time: 6,000 seconds
Capacitor capacity: 4300 GJ
Capacitor Recharge time: 1000 seconds
Cargo capacity: 200m3

1. The mass is considered non-existant to wormholes entries in this specific context.
(Specific to removing from the value the WH-entry can pass before collapse)

2. These ships are treated as being too large for entry into wormholes at all.

So why will anyone fly this instead of a rookie ship?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#203 - 2014-10-31 15:51:38 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

Because the damage output lost by using the so-called free ship at least doubles, (if not more than), the number of pilots required to fly them.

The time lost maintaining and using these pilots, even if simply alts, would be more than the time needed to earn the ISK to buy the better ship.

These are not intended to be cost effective, in the sense you are concerned with here.


So in the simple use case I am outlining where a ganker with multi-box or several friends wants to kill a freighter you are saying that te BS sized free ships would have half or less the dps that the usual paid for gank cats would have? Given that the target is a freighter and therefore is simply bumped to keep from warping and cannot speed tank. I doubt that very much in which case these freebies would be a godsend to gankers and anathema to cat producers for a start.

There have been many cases put forward against these ships (no matter how often you go la-la-la- I'm not listeneing). There really is no point to them and no way they could not impact the market.

I dunno, I am a lousy pilot for Gallente, and I can fit & fly a cat that does 177 DPS with only T1 fittings.
There are versions in battleclinic with more than double that.

If you looked at the BS specs I just finished outlining for Takeshi, the so-called free BS is only 100 DPS.

The Cat will be just fine. Schrodinger is flying this BS now, and most ships can arrange for it to die once they observe it being present.
(I could not resist that joke)

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#204 - 2014-10-31 15:58:56 UTC
Takeshi Kumamato wrote:
So why will anyone fly this instead of a rookie ship?


Simple and honest answer:
It will last longer in a fight. It's chances of winning won't be meaningfully better, but it will take longer to kill than the rookie ship.

This ship can be a valuable tool, in teaching the simple joy of battle, embracing the thrill of engaging an opponent, even while knowing you won't beat them.
It is a game, you are not risking anything you cannot afford to lose, and there is a valid expectation that players who find they enjoy playing with these, will find it less of an issue to actually invest in ships for better results in PvP.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2014-10-31 16:05:54 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

If you looked at the BS specs I just finished outlining for Takeshi, the so-called free BS is only 100 DPS.


Then there is no point to the ship as it is simply a BS model with nothing at all BS about it. You mayas well fight in rookie ships.

Nikk Narrel wrote:

(I could not resist that joke)


You really really should have tried harder...Smile
Takeshi Kumamato
Blaze Orange Expeditions
#206 - 2014-10-31 16:12:52 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

Damage amount: 100 DPS Thermal
Weapons Range: 40km
Signature resolution: 700 m
Tracking Speed: 0.004 rad/sec
Warp Speed: 1.4 AU/s
Maximum Locked Targets: 2
Targeting Range: 40km
Signature radius: 900m
Scan Resolution: 30mm
Sensor Strength: 10 points
Top Speed: 50m/s
Mass: 200,000,000 kg
Inertia modifier: 0.2x
Shield capacity: 10000 EM: 0% Exp: 50% Kin: 40% Therm: 0%
Armor capacity: 5000 EM: 50% Exp: 10% Kin: 25% Therm: 0%
Hull: 6000
Shield recharge time: 6,000 seconds
Capacitor capacity: 4300 GJ
Capacitor Recharge time: 1000 seconds
Cargo capacity: 200m3

1. The mass is considered non-existant to wormholes entries in this specific context.
(Specific to removing from the value the WH-entry can pass before collapse)

2. These ships are treated as being too large for entry into wormholes at all.

Simple and honest answer:
It will last longer in a fight. It's chances of winning won't be meaningfully better, but it will take longer to kill than the rookie ship.

This ship can be a valuable tool, in teaching the simple joy of battle, embracing the thrill of engaging an opponent, even while knowing you won't beat them.
It is a game, you are not risking anything you cannot afford to lose, and there is a valid expectation that players who find they enjoy playing with these, will find it less of an issue to actually invest in ships for better results in PvP.

This ship has the maneuverability and warp speed of a freighter (its base align time is over 55 seconds).
It has the scan resolution and tracking speed of a Moros (it'll take 30 seconds for it to lock another battleship and won't track it unless it's almost sitting still).
It has the damage output of a rookie ship.
You're saying that despite these drawbacks, that it'll "teach the simple joy of battle" simply because it has approximately 30,000 ehp?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#207 - 2014-10-31 16:26:46 UTC
Takeshi Kumamato wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Simple and honest answer:
It will last longer in a fight. It's chances of winning won't be meaningfully better, but it will take longer to kill than the rookie ship.

This ship can be a valuable tool, in teaching the simple joy of battle, embracing the thrill of engaging an opponent, even while knowing you won't beat them.
It is a game, you are not risking anything you cannot afford to lose, and there is a valid expectation that players who find they enjoy playing with these, will find it less of an issue to actually invest in ships for better results in PvP.

This ship has the maneuverability and warp speed of a freighter (its base align time is over 55 seconds).
It has the scan resolution and tracking speed of a Moros (it'll take 30 seconds for it to lock another battleship and won't track it unless it's almost sitting still).
It has the damage output of a rookie ship.
You're saying that despite these drawbacks, that it'll "teach the simple joy of battle" simply because it has approximately 30,000 ehp?

Yes.

While you may have trouble reconciling it's dim performance with anyone enjoying using it, it can actually be fun.

The only ship which this might be effective against, is another one identical to it.

Against better equipped pilots, it still has the give and take patterns of an interesting fight, with emergent potential to be much more.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...