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[Phoebe] Heavy Interdictors

First post
Author
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#261 - 2014-10-20 20:56:43 UTC
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:


Just to point out that a SEBO HIC with a script and a scrambler works wonders for Hi-sec gate KR whoring.

Lots of fun esp if you have some webs, jams and neuts for that odd flashy Marauder with bastion.



And yes. If a HIC prevents Capitals from jumping through gates.... then this change should be applied to sub caps as well.

After all, being stuck on gates in pew pew situations with no way to crawl back and gate out is both good and desirable for a PvP game.



More like good and desirable for an I-win button.


Its a pro-sub cap PvP game.... somebody has to lose.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#262 - 2014-10-21 12:59:24 UTC
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:


Just to point out that a SEBO HIC with a script and a scrambler works wonders for Hi-sec gate KR whoring.

Lots of fun esp if you have some webs, jams and neuts for that odd flashy Marauder with bastion.



And yes. If a HIC prevents Capitals from jumping through gates.... then this change should be applied to sub caps as well.

After all, being stuck on gates in pew pew situations with no way to crawl back and gate out is both good and desirable for a PvP game.



More like good and desirable for an I-win button.



I don't see it as an "I win" button. More of a commit or go away B**** so you don't get bothered by risk averse shinanigans. My general rule is 'more explosions is good'. I think this would generate more explosions.

I think it would be great for nabbing a fraction of the inty plague we are currently enduring. I like that an inty can cut through bubbles and tackle stuff, but think taking away the burn back to the gate and jump away option would be fair play. It wouldn't be a 100% counter, you would still have to lock them in time, but it would put a bit more risk in the inty flight plan (my opinion.... I think they could use a bit more risk)
Anthar Thebess
#263 - 2014-10-21 13:24:02 UTC
Can we have additional feature on all Hictors?

Super pointed target cannot light cyno Roll
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#264 - 2014-10-21 19:06:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Fozzie any thought given too making HIC's WDFG (scripted) work in High Sec?
perhaps reduce its base range a little and allows reps for it

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Ix Method
Doomheim
#265 - 2014-10-21 19:53:31 UTC
Are there EFT files out for these yet?

Travelling at the speed of love.

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#266 - 2014-10-21 20:22:27 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
-snap!-

I don't see it as an "I win" button. More of a commit or go away B**** so you don't get bothered by risk averse shinanigans. My general rule is 'more explosions is good'. I think this would generate more explosions.

I think it would be great for nabbing a fraction of the inty plague we are currently enduring. I like that an inty can cut through bubbles and tackle stuff, but think taking away the burn back to the gate and jump away option would be fair play. It wouldn't be a 100% counter, you would still have to lock them in time, but it would put a bit more risk in the inty flight plan (my opinion.... I think they could use a bit more risk)


I do!

Changes of the last recent years made it more and more difficult for soloers as it is. If you want a sooper-ikill-you-now boat with no chance of escaping in a cool way, you will also never get to see another solo-pvp video ever again.

I know it may be 'fun' for you to call 3 trillion buddies of yours because you are unable to handle one ship but then you do not have earned your killmail anyways.

I know that I most certainly do not want to jump into a lolly-secunda - that need three logistic boats and whatever number of more buddies - gatecamp to handle one battlecruiser, yes I am staring at you lol-secunda, so I am glad that I can bail on this at least most of the time.

Let's do a mindgame.

Let's imagine you like murdering people so much that a simple war somewhere is no good enough for you and you cannot get enough because the war is over and you also hate people so much for not starting another one for you to fight in that you get your M-16 and go to the next mall available and start shooting.

Oh noes so unlucky for everyone in that mall that they can not escape your rage because your machinegun prevents every victim of yours from leaving the building until you killed the last clerk.

Sound almost reasonable right??

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Ludic Sans
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#267 - 2014-10-22 00:24:54 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
[quote=Serendipity Lost] -snap!-


Let's do a mindgame.

Let's imagine you like murdering people so much that a simple war somewhere is no good enough for you and you cannot get enough because the war is over and you also hate people so much for not starting another one for you to fight in that you get your M-16 and go to the next mall available and start shooting.

Oh noes so unlucky for everyone in that mall that they can not escape your rage because your machinegun prevents every victim of yours from leaving the building until you killed the last clerk.

Sound almost reasonable right??


I nominate this for the least coherent analogy of the year.

Logging in on my wonderful landing-strip-head alt to say that HICs won't see much multi-role combat with the changes being made. I guess it's good that they'll get an additional deployment location -- on gates, to sit still, attempt to hold caps, and get blapped -- but it's still far too expensive and far too cumbersome compared to regular dictors to warrant regular use, nevermind use where they'd actually want to bring guns.

Separating cap combat and subcap combat for a moment, the additional DPS does not make hictors a good sell for subcap combat. I'd recommend the bubble affect inties, which will still MWD through it like empty space and only get caught by sebos and other ceptors. It'd give hictors the niche purpose of making inties behave like a few patches ago. At the hictor price point, with its bubble-up vulnerability plus combat timer and inability to jump, it still won't appear very prolifically. Just more prolifically than right now, which is to say rarely seen dangling under a carrier.
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#268 - 2014-10-22 01:41:32 UTC
Hictors might actually be a viable shipclass if using the main weapon wasn't an automatic death sentence in situations they are intended for.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#269 - 2014-10-22 06:53:44 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
-snap!-

I don't see it as an "I win" button. More of a commit or go away B**** so you don't get bothered by risk averse shinanigans. My general rule is 'more explosions is good'. I think this would generate more explosions.

I think it would be great for nabbing a fraction of the inty plague we are currently enduring. I like that an inty can cut through bubbles and tackle stuff, but think taking away the burn back to the gate and jump away option would be fair play. It wouldn't be a 100% counter, you would still have to lock them in time, but it would put a bit more risk in the inty flight plan (my opinion.... I think they could use a bit more risk)


I do!

Changes of the last recent years made it more and more difficult for soloers as it is. If you want a sooper-ikill-you-now boat with no chance of escaping in a cool way, you will also never get to see another solo-pvp video ever again.

I know it may be 'fun' for you to call 3 trillion buddies of yours because you are unable to handle one ship but then you do not have earned your killmail anyways.

I know that I most certainly do not want to jump into a lolly-secunda - that need three logistic boats and whatever number of more buddies - gatecamp to handle one battlecruiser, yes I am staring at you lol-secunda, so I am glad that I can bail on this at least most of the time.

Let's do a mindgame.

Let's imagine you like murdering people so much that a simple war somewhere is no good enough for you and you cannot get enough because the war is over and you also hate people so much for not starting another one for you to fight in that you get your M-16 and go to the next mall available and start shooting.

Oh noes so unlucky for everyone in that mall that they can not escape your rage because your machinegun prevents every victim of yours from leaving the building until you killed the last clerk.

Sound almost reasonable right??


Firstly, Eve is an MMO (Massive Multiplayer Online). Not a Single Player Online game...

Secondly, if you find yourself in a fair fight in Eve Online.... You've done it wrong.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Sigras
Conglomo
#270 - 2014-10-22 09:22:46 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Sigras wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why I would ever fly a Phobos after these changes when the Devoter exists?

Tackle
Cap injection
Better damage application due to tracking bonus.
Plus rate of fire gives a 33% dps increase over the 25% the damage bonus

im not sure what you mean by tackle as theyre both heavy dictors... but if you mean a web/scramble the devoter fits one just fine.

The devoter has 3 mids plenty for prop mod + cap injector + utility

Medium pulse lasers have a more ideal engagement envelope for HICs than rails or blasters and they track better than rails.

The devoter has an extra low for a damage mod making up for the loss in damage while keeping the same tank

The devoter is better than the phobos in every way


I disagree that 50% extra tracking is going to be killer.

comparison of tech II beam vrs tech II 250 rails with just regualr tech I close range ammo shows the phobos native rails having a better tracking than beams.

though most would compare it to pulse with scorch. so yeah the pulse have better tracking but when using jav its not that bad. pluse have 36% better tracking and a 22.8 km engagement range with close range tech II ammo but a switch to antimater greatly increases engagement range up to 33.6 km which is slightly more than the long range ammo for pulse whch tops out at 31km.

So at max disruption range the only damage comming from the devoter is from its drones but the phobos can easy switch to uranium and hit what its tackled.

So each has thier own bonuses the pulse are great in longer then 10km but shorter then 30km and the blasters are g-d like for less then 10km and rails dominate after 30km.

plus having the 4th mid slot adds extra utlity for a small gang where you might not have dedicated e-war ships.

I am thinking ions with antimater and a mwd scram web and cap injector.

That is going to obliterate ships within range.


if you dont want to use a phobos by all means just stick to the ammar one. but i like tech II gal resist specally against kin/thermal heavy damage...

each to thier own i guess...

I will funny admit that rails do more damage than pulses at all ranges greater than 11 km (although that difference gets MUCH smaller if you use the extra low slot the devoter has for a damage mod) but other than the marginal DPS increase, the devoter is better in every way. It has a better tank, a more reasonable resist profile, better tracking guns (more than twice as well even with the tracking ammo in the railguns). The devoter is just better.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#271 - 2014-10-22 10:59:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ix Method
You're not wrong but it's not the end of the world. Phobos has a utility niche and Amarr finally get a T2 DPS cruiser that isn't outshone by the Gallente alternative. Everyone wins?

Travelling at the speed of love.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#272 - 2014-10-22 13:14:30 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
-snap!-

I don't see it as an "I win" button. More of a commit or go away B**** so you don't get bothered by risk averse shinanigans. My general rule is 'more explosions is good'. I think this would generate more explosions.

I think it would be great for nabbing a fraction of the inty plague we are currently enduring. I like that an inty can cut through bubbles and tackle stuff, but think taking away the burn back to the gate and jump away option would be fair play. It wouldn't be a 100% counter, you would still have to lock them in time, but it would put a bit more risk in the inty flight plan (my opinion.... I think they could use a bit more risk)


I do!

Changes of the last recent years made it more and more difficult for soloers as it is. If you want a sooper-ikill-you-now boat with no chance of escaping in a cool way, you will also never get to see another solo-pvp video ever again.

I know it may be 'fun' for you to call 3 trillion buddies of yours because you are unable to handle one ship but then you do not have earned your killmail anyways.

I know that I most certainly do not want to jump into a lolly-secunda - that need three logistic boats and whatever number of more buddies - gatecamp to handle one battlecruiser, yes I am staring at you lol-secunda, so I am glad that I can bail on this at least most of the time.



I don't think this would change a lot for solo guys. There's always going to be a gate camp that wonks your solo ship. I think eve has progressed to the point where the ideal of flying around null/LS solo getting good fights is pretty much over. Between just plain population growth (over years) and our collective love of asshattery - I think solo roamer is a very thin slice of eve.

I think forcing guys to stay engaged is a good thing. Keep in mind you have to have a scripted HIC point per guy you want to hold. Anyone fielding 20 scripted points probably has enough guys to camp both sides of the gate anyway.

I guess for me it's the growth of all the 'risk averse' pvp. De-agression mechanics, neutral reps, off grid boosting, the love of kiting ships, dual prop fits, EC-300 dishonor drones, removing 90% webs here and there.... much of small scale pvp is about getting away. Everyone in null is ripping around in interceptors for the bubble immunity. FW has gone to either bombers or kiting frigates. Sometimes all of it just overwhelms me and I sit down and cry for a while.

OK, so I don't do that, BUT it would be nice if for the 10,000 ways we have to get away from a fight there was 1 (just 1) way to counter all the de-agression escape routes. You would have to bring a 200+ mil ship to do it.

(On a related note... I've never understood how CONCORD is unable to remember an act of agression past 1 minute. That just doesn't make sense. Think of all the beautiful explosions a 15 minute memory would create)
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#273 - 2014-10-22 13:20:32 UTC
I would be intersted in your list of changes that make solo pvp less viable. I'll bookend the request with changes that have come about in the past 3 years.

I think it's the people you meet, not the mechanics.

I'm interested in which changes you think have gone against solo pvp.
Notorious Fellon
#274 - 2014-10-22 20:19:35 UTC
Drone bonus on the wrong ship.

Not sure how anyone could have made that mistake.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.

Sigras
Conglomo
#275 - 2014-10-22 23:22:13 UTC
Ix Method wrote:
You're not wrong but it's not the end of the world. Phobos has a utility niche and Amarr finally get a T2 DPS cruiser that isn't outshone by the Gallente alternative. Everyone wins?

because the diemost is used so much more often than the zealot?
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
#276 - 2014-10-23 00:47:49 UTC
Sigras wrote:
because the diemost is used so much more often than the zealot?
That is the most 2012 thing I've ever read. Have you played at all since then?
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#277 - 2014-10-23 13:59:38 UTC
Hey everyone. I'm back from Vegas now and all caught up on the thread. Thanks for the feedback so far.

A number of the suggestions posted here (allowing hictors to prevent interceptors from warping, allowing focused points to stop all ships from jumping, allowing focused points to stop ships from docking) would unbalance the game too far towards inescapable camps. We have absolutely no intention of making any of those changes at this time.

I'm noticing a fair bit of consternation at the fact that the Devoter is getting a small dronebay but the Phobos is not. The optimal bonus on the Phobos has also been raising some eyebrows.
The key thing that these players are missing is the distinctive flavour we are working towards giving the entire Roden Shipyards line. The old design for Roden Shipyards was focused on a fairly watered down use of missiles and hybrids. This left them in an underwhelming place compared to the other two Gallente T2 corps.

In the new world order for Gallente T2 ships, each manufacturer has a clear set of strengths and a unifying theme:

Duvolle Labs ships are the perfect blasterboats, tending towards lots of damage bonuses (often both RoF and Damage on the same hull) and falloff bonuses. Duvolle ships tend to be among the faster Gallente T2 ships to help them get into range, and sport robust unbonused dronebays as a secondary weapon.

Creodron ships are specialized droneboats, as befits a line of vessels constructed by a company that makes most of its money from drones. These guys tend to have the most drone bandwidth, and the best drone bonuses.

Roden Shipyards ships can be used as effective blasterboats, but tend to lean towards railguns with big bonuses to hybrid optimal range and tracking. They are a bit slower than Duvolle ships, and have the weakest drone capability of all the Gallente ships, but they tend to have more low slots and more armor HP, as well as better sensors.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#278 - 2014-10-23 14:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I'm back from Vegas now and all caught up on the thread. Thanks for the feedback so far.

A number of the suggestions posted here (allowing hictors to prevent interceptors from warping, allowing focused points to stop all ships from jumping, allowing focused points to stop ships from docking) would unbalance the game too far towards inescapable camps. We have absolutely no intention of making any of those changes at this time.

I'm noticing a fair bit of consternation at the fact that the Devoter is getting a small dronebay but the Phobos is not. The optimal bonus on the Phobos has also been raising some eyebrows.
The key thing that these players are missing is the distinctive flavour we are working towards giving the entire Roden Shipyards line. The old design for Roden Shipyards was focused on a fairly watered down use of missiles and hybrids. This left them in an underwhelming place compared to the other two Gallente T2 corps.

In the new world order for Gallente T2 ships, each manufacturer has a clear set of strengths and a unifying theme:

Duvolle Labs ships are the perfect blasterboats, tending towards lots of damage bonuses (often both RoF and Damage on the same hull) and falloff bonuses. Duvolle ships tend to be among the faster Gallente T2 ships to help them get into range, and sport robust unbonused dronebays as a secondary weapon.

Creodron ships are specialized droneboats, as befits a line of vessels constructed by a company that makes most of its money from drones. These guys tend to have the most drone bandwidth, and the best drone bonuses.

Roden Shipyards ships can be used as effective blasterboats, but tend to lean towards railguns with big bonuses to hybrid optimal range and tracking. They are a bit slower than Duvolle ships, and have the weakest drone capability of all the Gallente ships, but they tend to have more low slots and more armor HP, as well as better sensors.



interesting to know .. perhaps we could have this information quite clearly on ship descriptions ... would be interested too know whether the other races manufacturers differ from the current descriptions which havent been updated in a long time and what you're view is of them all

especially why ishukone ships are so handicapped

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#279 - 2014-10-23 14:08:17 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I'm back from Vegas now and all caught up on the thread. Thanks for the feedback so far.

A number of the suggestions posted here (allowing hictors to prevent interceptors from warping, allowing focused points to stop all ships from jumping, allowing focused points to stop ships from docking) would unbalance the game too far towards inescapable camps. We have absolutely no intention of making any of those changes at this time.

I'm noticing a fair bit of consternation at the fact that the Devoter is getting a small dronebay but the Phobos is not. The optimal bonus on the Phobos has also been raising some eyebrows.
The key thing that these players are missing is the distinctive flavour we are working towards giving the entire Roden Shipyards line. The old design for Roden Shipyards was focused on a fairly watered down use of missiles and hybrids. This left them in an underwhelming place compared to the other two Gallente T2 corps.

In the new world order for Gallente T2 ships, each manufacturer has a clear set of strengths and a unifying theme:

Duvolle Labs ships are the perfect blasterboats, tending towards lots of damage bonuses (often both RoF and Damage on the same hull) and falloff bonuses. Duvolle ships tend to be among the faster Gallente T2 ships to help them get into range, and sport robust unbonused dronebays as a secondary weapon.

Creodron ships are specialized droneboats, as befits a line of vessels constructed by a company that makes most of its money from drones. These guys tend to have the most drone bandwidth, and the best drone bonuses.

Roden Shipyards ships can be used as effective blasterboats, but tend to lean towards railguns with big bonuses to hybrid optimal range and tracking. They are a bit slower than Duvolle ships, and have the weakest drone capability of all the Gallente ships, but they tend to have more low slots and more armor HP, as well as better sensors.


Then give them the fitting to actually fit a tank and rails!
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#280 - 2014-10-23 14:10:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
sounds like the enyo needs some changes too match the roden shipyards new approach or made too duvolle labs .. which would be better it could use the extra speed and more drones

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using