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[Phoebe] Stealth Bombers

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Oxide Ammar
#1041 - 2014-11-03 09:45:10 UTC
I would trade bombs anyday with alpha strike bomber like it was before when they were able to equip cruise missile and were able to one shot 0 m/s frigs in single salvo. I always like to play with glass cannon class/ship in games and I was attracted to the game by that idea to find out sadly they already change how bombers work. Ugh

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.

Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#1042 - 2014-11-03 13:45:51 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
On My view. Stealth bombers bombs should be made weaker. Make them be more easily poped so at most 3 are fired in a volley. Also bombers effective rof for bombs should be nerfed. SB shoudl be surprise factor and less about sustained barrages.

The RoF of bombs is totally irrelevant until it's longer than about 5 mins or more. That is how long it takes to reset, and who the hell is going to be sitting around waiting for the next set of bomb waves? Even F1 monkeys are better than that.

Again moving to 3 bombs a volley makes them absolutely useless. May as well be honest and remove them from the game. Which is what you want.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1043 - 2014-11-03 14:27:18 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:

On a side note, how would it change things if Bombers could use any of the BS sized missiles rather than just torps?


What would change is that it would show how bad Torpedoes are at the moment.

Stealth Bombers are about the only ships that have use for Torpedoes, all other ships are using Cruise, because if you don't get the ridiculous range and explosion radius bonus, it's a weapon system that has little more use than for shooting structures.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#1044 - 2014-11-03 15:16:04 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
...What would change is that it would show how bad Torpedoes are at the moment.

Stealth Bombers are about the only ships that have use for Torpedoes, all other ships are using Cruise, because if you don't get the ridiculous range and explosion radius bonus, it's a weapon system that has little more use than for shooting structures.


Yes, since the day CCP made all bombers equal.

Torpedos like all other missiles in EVE have been given a problem and with that Vale of the Silent CCP is hiding behind, they are avoiding to respond and mistakenly hoping for that problem they created to magically disappear.

I do not feel any remorse by telling CCP they made a mistake and are too ashamed to admit that they were wrong.

To not respond to a question in the room is a response.

To ignore someone is plain rude.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Psyatt
#1045 - 2014-11-04 00:44:24 UTC
My two cents,

Cloaks de-cloaking each other is fine, as long as there is a graphical, if not overview, way to see fleet mates. Allowing fleet mates to see the same new shiney graphics that we see on our own ships should be enough of a clue. De-cloak should be adjusted to ONLY work on-grid AND ONLY with all related ships/structures in sidereal(not warp) space.


Bomb damage needs to be more fully addressed, as stated by others, in a way that balances away from armor prevalence. The sig radius calculation seems to be for the MWD small ships that the bomber excels at killing. How about changing that to mass? Completely alter the paradigm. Bombers would suck at killing smaller ships but allow the poor down-trodden masses to smack larger fleets of larger ships. Bomb damage would need some adjustment to be sure, such as reducing resists to get volleys to 4-5. This counters bombers by allowing the enemy fleet to bring small ships of their own to hunt bombers without the risk of popping when they use MWD.

The new Focused Void is a wonderful and overdue foray into specialty bombs. The one meter range should be opened up to 50 meters. Not everyone is Davy Crocket in a bomber.

Giving Bombers any kind of ehp buff for any reason is like putting tinfoil over a cardboard box. Sure, it looks nicer... but when a truck hits it, it's just as flat.

Yes to cargo. Three bombs for all.





Suggested new bombs.

Spatial Destabilizer - Cancels/disallows all warps/jumps in detonation radius for 10(?)/X seconds. Target must re-enter command. Could break up fleet warps into manageable chunks on the other end. Not so much a tackle as a stumble. Like being ECM jammed.


Shaped Charge - Same basic principles as the new Focused Void, but damage bomb for use against Titans and SCs. Have to lay it right in the old thermal exhaust port, but if you do... Hey there are plenty of Titans, and more a-building every day. Why not allow a frigate class to help thin the thundering herd?


EMP - De-stabilizes ship systems thereby de-cloaking any ship in detonation range. Cannot sweep without the proper broom. SB vs SB. There is a counter. Use SBs against themselves.





Psyatt
#1046 - 2014-11-04 01:17:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Psyatt
Not so much just a new bomb but a re-imagining of an ancient weapon.


Proximity Mine - All the same flavors as bombs. Travels the 30 Km and stops. Detonates if any SHIP(not drone/missile/etc) crosses detonation radius. Mines WILL de-cloak ships. 60(?) minute lifespan with launching pilot on-grid, cloaked or not. If/when pilot leaves grid for any reason, timer drops to 60(?) seconds. Any un-exploded ordinance de-activates(no detonation) upon timer expiration. Nul/Negsec only. The criminality of mines has been experienced.

Mine Launcher Skill - 4x - Each level allows the deployment of two(?) mines, for a maximum of ten(?).

If one is going to sit at a gate camp staring into space, may as well have something useful to stare AT. The pretty minefield you and a dozen of your friends laid around that gate. Mix-n-match mine types if desired.
JamesT KirkJr
A New Eden
#1047 - 2014-11-04 04:12:11 UTC  |  Edited by: JamesT KirkJr
Alavaria Fera wrote:
JamesT KirkJr wrote:
Right now you can lead them and the huge explosion radius can give you hits, which is a situation bombs weren't designed for.

Interesting.

Area of effect weapons weren't designed to hit things that are not at the center of the area of effect


Bombs are unguided weapons. The premise (as I understand it) is that you are firing at a target which will still be in roughly the same place 10 seconds later, and the AOE is to offset aiming imprecision and to do mass damage to surrounding targets in a fleet. Not to let you snipe at individual ships on the move. The damage reduction due to velocity backs that premise up - bombs are best employed on stationary or slow moving targets.
Neuron Stew
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1048 - 2014-11-04 17:29:17 UTC
Why not add in a set of damage bombs that scale damage based on a ship's mass instead of Sig radius for anti-captial and anti-armor fleet use?

Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#1049 - 2014-11-04 20:23:12 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Here are our latest updates to the plan.

Firstly and most significantly, the change to decloaking mechanics has been put on hold indefinitely. We are going to take some more time to work on the best way to have ships interact with cloakies and it's very possible that our eventual changes will be significantly different than what we talked about earlier. For now, cloaked ships will not decloak each other.

We're also going to be removing some of the earlier increase in signature radius and shifting it to a penalty on the bomb launcher itself. The T1 bomb launcher will add +10m signature radius and the T2 will add 12m.

We're increasing the capacity of the T2 bomb launcher to 300m3.

The Focused Void Bomb will have an explosion radius of 5000m, 1000m more than originally proposed.

Both the new bomb and new interdiction probe will be made available exclusively in the Syndicate LP store.

The new interdiction probe will be delayed slightly as we've run into some graphical issues with it that we'll need more time to properly fix.

We've sourced a lot of these changes from this thread, thanks to everyone who has been providing feedback.

Very nice. Faith restored Fozzie, faith restored.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#1050 - 2014-11-04 21:01:14 UTC
Neuron Stew wrote:
Why not add in a set of damage bombs that scale damage based on a ship's mass instead of Sig radius for anti-captial and anti-armor fleet use?


Hmm, I'm thinking gravity influxion bomb, damage based upon the mass of the ship. Now that'd be very awesome and very sci fi.
Psyatt
#1051 - 2014-11-05 02:49:57 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Neuron Stew wrote:
Why not add in a set of damage bombs that scale damage based on a ship's mass instead of Sig radius for anti-captial and anti-armor fleet use?


Hmm, I'm thinking gravity influxion bomb, damage based upon the mass of the ship. Now that'd be very awesome and very sci fi.



Look up a few posts. Big smile Barely beat you to the posts, but I bet many have thought of similar things.


I figured this was a prevalent idea.


To my limited understanding, it seems that a frigate that mounts battleship weapons should be used against larger ship types.

Instead, we have stealth bomber wings that can obliterate any small-ship gang that uses MWD as a tactic.


Switch all bomb calculations to mass instead of sig radius, along with adjustments of DPS scaling for balance of course. You do not want a pair of SBs insta-popping a plated Megathron while leaving a shield tanked Raven sitting there pretty. The cap ship bombs can be used for high DPS against just those ship types.

That makes counters by the score. Small ships can hunt SBs with this change. No need for random smarty fits on everyone that can fit a medium or better.


More bomb types, all with lower resists. The more fun the individual bomb is, the less you want in one place. Get the volleys down to 4 or so inside the same AOE, but play with other stats.

This would be a major overhaul/change, and I can understand that the changes being made now are simpler to accomplish.


-
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1052 - 2014-11-05 18:21:08 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Neuron Stew wrote:
Why not add in a set of damage bombs that scale damage based on a ship's mass instead of Sig radius for anti-captial and anti-armor fleet use?


Hmm, I'm thinking gravity influxion bomb, damage based upon the mass of the ship. Now that'd be very awesome and very sci fi.

Not bad, an avatar would take like twice (not more than three times, anyway) the damage an archon would.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Heathkit
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#1053 - 2014-11-07 13:48:42 UTC
Doyle Aldurad wrote:
I am pretty good with all of these changes but one. These are still Frigates. Making them slower in warp than any generic T-1 frigate seems inappropriate and unbalancing. Suddenly even keeping up with my allies in a roam is a lot more difficult. Making them "slower" I do understand, given you're desire to weaken them overall, but dropping their warp speed that of a destroyer seems completely wrong. You've already made them both notably easier to discover and destroy, plus made their signature weapon easier to evade.

Please remove that aspect of the 'balancing'


There's nothing written in stone saying that bombers need to be frigates. Maybe it would be more appropriate for them to be destroyers or cruisers, and have the survivability and agility that comes with that.
Crynsos Cealion
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1054 - 2014-11-09 13:40:13 UTC
In case this hasn't been posted here yet, a good idea from reddit to hurt ISBoxer bombers the same way as originally intended:

How about having a pop up window come up after launching a bomb, asking you to enter a randomized 4 number code within 10 seconds so that the bomb gets armed, otherwise it would not explode?
That would be easy for any normal human player to do (and distracted them a little from escaping while we're at it), but quite hard for ISBoxers without some scripts, which would be classified as botting anyways.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1055 - 2014-11-09 14:33:50 UTC
Heathkit wrote:
Doyle Aldurad wrote:
I am pretty good with all of these changes but one. These are still Frigates. Making them slower in warp than any generic T-1 frigate seems inappropriate and unbalancing. Suddenly even keeping up with my allies in a roam is a lot more difficult. Making them "slower" I do understand, given you're desire to weaken them overall, but dropping their warp speed that of a destroyer seems completely wrong. You've already made them both notably easier to discover and destroy, plus made their signature weapon easier to evade.

Please remove that aspect of the 'balancing'


There's nothing written in stone saying that bombers need to be frigates. Maybe it would be more appropriate for them to be destroyers or cruisers, and have the survivability and agility that comes with that.


they would also be quicker too lock .. less agile and they would have slower warp speed i'm sure and slower lock time .. kind of all the things you don't want

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#1056 - 2014-11-10 11:06:38 UTC
Crynsos Cealion wrote:
In case this hasn't been posted here yet, a good idea from reddit to hurt ISBoxer bombers the same way as originally intended:

How about having a pop up window come up after launching a bomb, asking you to enter a randomized 4 number code within 10 seconds so that the bomb gets armed, otherwise it would not explode?
That would be easy for any normal human player to do (and distracted them a little from escaping while we're at it), but quite hard for ISBoxers without some scripts, which would be classified as botting anyways.

That is a really stupid idea. While your at it, lets add a CAPTCHA to any mining ship, or anyone docked to make sure they are not afk and scaring people away from the system in local.

Or how about you just list all the play styles you don't like and ban them. It makes about as much sense.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#1057 - 2014-11-11 23:08:48 UTC
Captcha is not enough. You should be required to answer a skill-testing question in order to even undock.
Darth Schweinebacke
Wings of Fury.
#1058 - 2014-11-11 23:41:06 UTC
Elise Randolph wrote:
Let's just say you won't be seeing "CCP HazedScrub" anytime soon.


If you would ever work for CCP I would rather vote for you naming yourself "CCP MistakesWereMade" ;).
Heinrich Rotwang
Spectre Fleet Corporation
#1059 - 2014-11-12 12:51:57 UTC
Crynsos Cealion wrote:
In case this hasn't been posted here yet, a good idea from reddit to hurt ISBoxer bombers the same way as originally intended:

How about having a pop up window come up after launching a bomb, asking you to enter a randomized 4 number code within 10 seconds so that the bomb gets armed, otherwise it would not explode?
That would be easy for any normal human player to do (and distracted them a little from escaping while we're at it), but quite hard for ISBoxers without some scripts, which would be classified as botting anyways.


May I suggest that everyone that comes up with wild ideas like that would please attach a killmail of his own successful solo bomb run on a BS or BC that wasn't AFK?
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1060 - 2014-11-25 15:41:44 UTC
Herrin Asura wrote:
Noone goes out on a bomb run to kill a frigate.


I'll just leave this here.


http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY