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People shooting renting corps in null. ( )

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Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2014-10-17 16:25:27 UTC
To be fair, those days were plagued by AOE doomsdays, which were a really dumb thing.

But yes, history continues to repeat itself with the same guy behind the wheel. Hmmm what a coincidence. Roll
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#82 - 2014-10-17 18:15:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Just like now...Just like once neutral PL and XXDeath being not neutral... How many people who were soooo tired of shooting POSes would love to have pre-Dominion SOV back. I wonder if any of them can remember how happy they were that they didn't have to grind POSes any more??? lol

Hmmm...maybe I missed it, but what changes are you in favor of implementing?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#83 - 2014-10-17 18:52:21 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Just like now...Just like once neutral PL and XXDeath being not neutral... How many people who were soooo tired of shooting POSes would love to have pre-Dominion SOV back. I wonder if any of them can remember how happy they were that they didn't have to grind POSes any more??? lol

Hmmm...maybe I missed it, but what changes are you in favor of implementing?


Changes that don't backfire and make a bad situation worse. To do that you have to look at the underlying realities of WHY a situation exists and also keep in mind that we are talking about a game (meaning you must take human nature into account).

Wishful thinking and good intentions don't work.
Solecist Project
#84 - 2014-10-17 19:03:37 UTC
Wow you people are still at it....


I was actually afraid of looking, because the Notifications came in so fast ...
... that I assumed you were just throwing **** at eachother.


I am seriously pleasantly surprised that there seems to be ...
... well ... a good posting atmosphere.


Thank you for that. (:

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#85 - 2014-10-17 20:08:28 UTC
Heh, apparently Jenn has more street cred than I do :)

I wrote "only labels change, pockets stay the same" -> *crickets*
She wrote same thing (admittedly in more words) -> discussion and follow up questions

That's... interesting.

Invalid signature format
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#86 - 2014-10-18 04:22:40 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Just like now...Just like once neutral PL and XXDeath being not neutral... How many people who were soooo tired of shooting POSes would love to have pre-Dominion SOV back. I wonder if any of them can remember how happy they were that they didn't have to grind POSes any more??? lol

Hmmm...maybe I missed it, but what changes are you in favor of implementing?


Changes that don't backfire and make a bad situation worse. To do that you have to look at the underlying realities of WHY a situation exists and also keep in mind that we are talking about a game (meaning you must take human nature into account).

Wishful thinking and good intentions don't work.

k...do you have any specific, detailed counter-proposals? It's very easy to say "this idea is ****." Doing so is also completely useless. Vague statements like "account for human nature" are scarcely less useless. Do you have any plan that involves specific buffs (preferably with numerics) e.g. add mexallon ore to nullsec grav sites, nerf/buff null income by x%, implement mechanic X instead of mechanic Y. You know, actual changes?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#87 - 2014-10-18 04:37:06 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Just like now...Just like once neutral PL and XXDeath being not neutral... How many people who were soooo tired of shooting POSes would love to have pre-Dominion SOV back. I wonder if any of them can remember how happy they were that they didn't have to grind POSes any more??? lol

Hmmm...maybe I missed it, but what changes are you in favor of implementing?


Changes that don't backfire and make a bad situation worse. To do that you have to look at the underlying realities of WHY a situation exists and also keep in mind that we are talking about a game (meaning you must take human nature into account).

Wishful thinking and good intentions don't work.

k...do you have any specific, detailed counter-proposals? It's very easy to say "this idea is ****." Doing so is also completely useless. Vague statements like "account for human nature" are scarcely less useless. Do you have any plan that involves specific buffs (preferably with numerics) e.g. add mexallon ore to nullsec grav sites, nerf/buff null income by x%, implement mechanic X instead of mechanic Y. You know, actual changes?


I'm not a game designer. Being silent when you see a bad way of thinking being repeated for the umpteenth time because one doesn't have godlike powers to decern a better way is dumb.

The difference between me and you is that I KNOW I don't know how to fix 'the problem', and would rather accept that than just go "well DO something, anything" which is the thing that is actually useless. CCP is committed to what they are doing, none of this talk is gonna change anything (you see it din't stop Dominion or the Anom nerf) .

Feel free to ignore my (and others) warning, CCP does lol. But remember that you did so in 6 months after we've had time to see the results of the thing you are (wishfully and without thought) supporting.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#88 - 2014-10-18 04:58:34 UTC
About sov though, at least we just ~naturally~ have fatigue (in real life) mechanics for shooting structures.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#89 - 2014-10-18 05:28:02 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Just like now...Just like once neutral PL and XXDeath being not neutral... How many people who were soooo tired of shooting POSes would love to have pre-Dominion SOV back. I wonder if any of them can remember how happy they were that they didn't have to grind POSes any more??? lol

Hmmm...maybe I missed it, but what changes are you in favor of implementing?


Changes that don't backfire and make a bad situation worse. To do that you have to look at the underlying realities of WHY a situation exists and also keep in mind that we are talking about a game (meaning you must take human nature into account).

Wishful thinking and good intentions don't work.

k...do you have any specific, detailed counter-proposals? It's very easy to say "this idea is ****." Doing so is also completely useless. Vague statements like "account for human nature" are scarcely less useless. Do you have any plan that involves specific buffs (preferably with numerics) e.g. add mexallon ore to nullsec grav sites, nerf/buff null income by x%, implement mechanic X instead of mechanic Y. You know, actual changes?


I'm not a game designer. Being silent when you see a bad way of thinking being repeated for the umpteenth time because one doesn't have godlike powers to decern a better way is dumb.

The difference between me and you is that I KNOW I don't know how to fix 'the problem', and would rather accept that than just go "well DO something, anything" which is the thing that is actually useless. CCP is committed to what they are doing, none of this talk is gonna change anything (you see it din't stop Dominion or the Anom nerf) .

Feel free to ignore my (and others) warning, CCP does lol. But remember that you did so in 6 months after we've had time to see the results of the thing you are (wishfully and without thought) supporting.

Your warning is worse than useless without an alternative. So far, we have 2 choices: CCP's sov revamp or the status quo. If both are ****, present an alternative.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#90 - 2014-10-18 05:39:19 UTC
Eve Online - the only game where it's mandatory for players to point out game design flaws, propose solutions, gather feedback on those solutions, react to said feedback and introduce required fixes to proposed solution and finally submit it to dedicated forum section where it can be ignored by devs and trolled even more by other players.

Invalid signature format
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#91 - 2014-10-18 06:01:41 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Eve Online - the only game where it's mandatory for players to point out game design flaws, propose solutions, gather feedback on those solutions, react to said feedback and introduce required fixes to proposed solution and finally submit it to dedicated forum section where it can be ignored by devs and trolled even more by other players.

Mandatory?

I can stop posting anytime I want. There has not been a ping about a posting cta

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#92 - 2014-10-18 06:04:05 UTC
But try to just post about problem and not propose at least 3 variants of solution including list of possible exploits and ways to counter those. Yeah, try it. I dare you.

Invalid signature format
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#93 - 2014-10-18 06:07:09 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:

Your warning is worse than useless without an alternative. So far, we have 2 choices: CCP's sov revamp or the status quo. If both are ****, present an alternative.



The 'alternative' is for the people actually doing the work to develop an evidence based thought process rather than relying on what amopunts to a game design ideology, one that has failed in the past. As i said, I'm not a game designer, unlike *others* i don't presume to know the job better than people who actually do it. I'm pointing out (as nothing more than a layman and customer) that the basic thinking that led to the problem is apparent in what CCP has so far revealed for null sec and that the most likely outcome is a WORSENING of the situation. I could be wrong and if so, great. But if i (and others) aren't, we're in for a lot of wasted time and frustration.

That '2 choices' thing is a part of the problem that led to Dominion and is leading to the current changes: Desperation. People were tired and desperate for change of pos grinding and thought "something is better than nothing". It's not, we ended up with a WORSE situation.

Your choices aren't "Sov revamp or status quo", it's "status quo or WORSE than the status quo" unless the underlying process and thinking about what null is and how it fits in the game is changed. Again, this is a layman's opinion only.
LDMcFear
RAVEN INTERSTELLAR ARMAMENTS CORPORATION
#94 - 2014-10-18 22:42:11 UTC
Ra' zutao wrote:
In All Honesty though it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a mass conglomerate together to harass these area's and start breaking up Null sec again.


For some reason this sounds like an awesome idea :)
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#95 - 2014-10-19 13:11:34 UTC
We were out capping some renters yesterday.

This is your queue to cry "nerf intercepters".
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#96 - 2014-10-19 16:00:42 UTC
What CCP should do is have the empires all thank the Null sec groups and move in and declare that HI-Sec is expanding its borders.
Dean Wong
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2014-10-19 19:00:32 UTC
I never understand all the hate against renters. Been someone who use to hunt them in the north, I think they become an essential part of EVE.

Here are my reasons.

1. Causal players who, after a long day at work, just want to relax and shoot some red crosses. They are bored of HS so they move to renter space. Why hate players like that.

2. Renters are keeping market inflation low. (think of all the salvage and mods they bring up). Anything that reduces my isk grinding for PVP ships, me like.Lol

3. Renters are not filling incursion fleet slots, that means less effort and time to grind isk and more time for me to PVP.

4. Renters, if you bring the right numbers and ship types, will undock and fight. They do provide alot of content in null sec. I never been blobs by renters and they bring good ships to PVP.

Can you imagine the day EVE have no renters. The outcome will be.

1. Desolated null sec.
2. Incursions sysytem overrun by fleets with alot of TIDI.
3. Rigs and meta 4 mods reaching 2012 price level.
4. Overcrowded mission systems.
5. Overcrowed HS

Renters to stay forever. Big smile
Solecist Project
#98 - 2014-10-19 19:17:59 UTC
Can't believe this thread is still going.

Anyhow, according to Pasta there is serious lack of activity in the regions they are harassing ...
... because of their own doings. That's in the south I think, I forgot.

The north is a fortress, I've heard.
Deklein ... CFC Central? We'll make a trip there.

I wanna see the highsec of nullsec myself.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Official Diplomat
Forgotten Godz
#99 - 2014-10-20 06:21:29 UTC
Contact me for protection from scary pvpers.
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#100 - 2014-10-20 07:51:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ka'Narlist
Alavaria Fera wrote:
About sov though, at least we just ~naturally~ have fatigue (in real life) mechanics for shooting structures.

One would think so, but I someone complained in the thread about the sov structure hp rebalance that it wouldn't make any sense to lower their ehp because its allready too easy to grind them down in bombers..lol

Solecist Project wrote:
I consider joining Pasta if the CEO of Love Squad approves ...

tell them I recruited you, maybe I get a commission Blink