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Allow Supers to Dock

Author
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#41 - 2014-10-17 13:08:29 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Once Phoebe hits, the lore/mechanic justification that was in place to prevent capitals/supers from taking gates will be void.

This is now the time to allow supers to dock. I'm not going into a long winded post about why this is a good idea, but here are a few points:


  • Super pilots are effectively trapped in their space coffin
  • Supers see significantly less combat than subcapitals. When they are deployed, they rarely explode.
  • Forcing supers to park in POS really doesn't lead to much more combat, outside of the rare instance of a bumped titan
  • Jump fatigue makes it so supers can't bounce between stations to regen capacitor


Having so much EHP would lead to supers being able to undock and play station games, then lose aggression and redock without real risk of dying. In order to prevent this from being abused, docking rights should come with a 10-15 minute timer specifically prohibiting docking for supers, only caused by pvp aggression. If supers aggress on the undock, they would be unable to dock for 10-15 minutes.

Give us more options to engage in PVP rather than locking characters in ships that are stuck in space.

Edit: This has been brought up before, but this is considering new information from the upcoming Phoebe patch, so it is not simply a repeat thread.




+1

And about the docking it think the idea from HIC therd is good, if ship is pointed by HIC it can't dock. problem solved \o/


and not only supers, all of the ships.
Anthar Thebess
#42 - 2014-10-17 13:40:33 UTC
WILLY TROPICAL wrote:
Everything is OP for Anthar Tebess except his ratting carriers.

I don't rat in carriers. Lol
Anthar Thebess
#43 - 2014-10-17 13:41:49 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:


And about the docking it think the idea from HIC therd is good, if ship is pointed by HIC it can't dock. problem solved \o/

and not only supers, all of the ships.


Remote ECM Burst , 1 jamming ship if something is going bad?
Christopher Mabata
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-10-17 14:02:17 UTC
I have no Qualms with supercarriers being able to dock so long as there is some way to stop this from turning into Null sec undock shenanigans or even low sec. I don't think anyone wants to deal with that so my suggestion would be once a super docks and undocks it can't dock again for I dunno an hour or two maybe even a day. And i did like the suggestion about the conquerable stations only as well so that could work.

Either way no undock games and im chill with it

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2014-10-17 14:33:09 UTC
Undock games are the explicit reason I suggested to implement a long aggression timer for docking with Supers. A 10-15 minute aggression timer would mean that a super would have to stop all aggression for 10-15 minutes before being able to dock up and do anything.
Christopher Mabata
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-10-17 14:36:40 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Undock games are the explicit reason I suggested to implement a long aggression timer for docking with Supers. A 10-15 minute aggression timer would mean that a super would have to stop all aggression for 10-15 minutes before being able to dock up and do anything.


yeah i was just re-iterating my opinion that was virtually the same as yours, just a bit harsher

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#47 - 2014-10-17 15:01:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
You run into a significant issue of capital seeding. Actually you exasperate it by 1000X.

Currently Supercapitals are regulated by both the number of accounts that can fly them, and by the storage method for them (being more stored by alt players than in pos's). You allow storage of them in stations, then it basically turns into another arms race of storing massive amounts of supercapitals in seeded stations. It is already currently being done with Carriers and Dreadnoughts. You want to add on the ability to seed Supercapitals in strategic stations all over New Eden?

Currently, if the person has 1 account, they can potentially have 3 capitals (one per character), and they run the significant risk of storing extra capitals in a POS (which most people probably will not do in any-type of front-line areas).

You allow docking privileges, you allow the person to double, triple, quadruple, quintuple their super-capital stash with no limit or regulation regarding the amount they could have. You run into multiple problematic scenarios.

1) Every 5 lightyears, in a station, is a stash of multiple super-capitals ready to drop on any location as needed, to be assigned to any pilot as needed, to be used as needed (the limiting factor isn't the jump drive, its now the player jump clone). This pretty much negates and removes the entire purpose of jump fatigue and the Light year range changes.

2) You make some stations completely immune to being taken over (station under attack, undock 50 supercapitals, as each goes down, undock a new supercapital to replace it. Yes this is ridiculously expensive, but people would gladly do it especially if it was a coalition expense).

3) Insurance. You create a method of throwaway supercapitals (we already have throwaway dreads for ganking supers, etc).

Presently, ingame, there is an artificial limit on super-capitals, and it is based on the number of alts a pilot has. They have to have someone to fly/logoff in the thing to make it a secure asset.

You allow them to dock, you blow the only limiting factor on the amount of super-capitals a player can own on both a personal player level and a alliance/coalition level.

Yaay!!!!

Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2014-10-17 15:19:43 UTC
You are suggesting that we would stock up an unknown number of supers in stations, but because we currently have to use holding alts, that it's too expensive? I don't think that means what you think it means.

Also, if a coalition is stocking up on trillions of isk worth of supers in multiple stations, that is trillions of isk worth of sunk cash that provides very limited value to the coalition. I would argue that the trillions of isk worth of stockpiled supers would be more valuable distributed as regular SRP to keep all of our tens of thousands of pilots in a combat capable ship across multiple points in the warzone.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#49 - 2014-10-17 18:52:49 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
You are suggesting that we would stock up an unknown number of supers in stations, but because we currently have to use holding alts, that it's too expensive? I don't think that means what you think it means.

Also, if a coalition is stocking up on trillions of isk worth of supers in multiple stations, that is trillions of isk worth of sunk cash that provides very limited value to the coalition. I would argue that the trillions of isk worth of stockpiled supers would be more valuable distributed as regular SRP to keep all of our tens of thousands of pilots in a combat capable ship across multiple points in the warzone.


I'm suggesting Everybody would stock up on unknown numbers of supers in stations... everywhere.

There would be no limiting factor on the amount of supers one person or one group could control except for the speed of its production (which most are just straight-out bought from producers).

Currently a person or group can only have as many supers as they have pilots, else they risk them by storing them at towers which have their own set of issues (constant fueling, open targets, forgetting to stront, abandoned, theft, roles, etc). Allowing Supers to dock would be removing that controlling check in the game.

If you want to use a legion of holding alts, no one is stopping you, but each of those alts has a holding person behind it, be it a active member, or a director/ceo storage account for backup supers. Is storing supers on alts or in POS's the best option, I don't believe it is.

But neither is storing them in indestructible stations.

Yaay!!!!

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
#50 - 2014-10-17 19:25:18 UTC
Also consider the size of supers in comparison to stations. **** wouldn't make sense.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#51 - 2014-10-17 19:42:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


If and when CCP provides destructable stations, then we can talk about docking supercaps in them.


Or we can just let them dock already. Seriously, what exactly do we gain from forcing them to be permanently in space and manned by a high SP pilot?


Why don't you just say 'Goons uber alles'

Your such a fan boy.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...

Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2014-10-17 20:42:15 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Also consider the size of supers in comparison to stations. **** wouldn't make sense.


Also consider Jita 4-4- there is more stuff in there than anywhere else in the game combined. Where do you think all of the minerals to build supers comes from?
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
#53 - 2014-10-17 23:27:03 UTC
"Guys I bought this ship and it was expensive so it must be better at all things but it has this downside can you remove this downside so it's even better!"

Maybe after the capital ship rebalance, but not in their current state. Supercarriers and titans are way too powerful right now to remove one of their only real downsides.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2014-10-22 19:54:56 UTC
Bumping the ability to dock/undock supers in conjunction with a sov upgrade or module that coordinates super docking. Disabling it prevents docking (or undocking) of supers.
Gel Musana
LOL a Sticky Situation
#55 - 2014-10-22 20:48:56 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:


  • Super pilots are effectively trapped in their space coffin
  • Supers see significantly less combat than subcapitals. When they are deployed, they rarely explode.
  • Forcing supers to park in POS really doesn't lead to much more combat, outside of the rare instance of a bumped titan
  • Jump fatigue makes it so supers can't bounce between stations to regen capacitor



You should have thought about it before getting into it. Any regrets? Super is a choice, a way of EVE life. Why would rule change for you? You don't like it, give me your stuff Pirate.

Ideology  s-h-i-t  list https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Gel%20Musana

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2014-10-22 20:56:25 UTC
I'm not against the idea but I think there should be something put into place to make sure there is no way to amke cache of the things in different part of the galaxy just a clone jump away. Everybody know the price of the things didn't work to keep them rare so thinking that now their cost would prevent people from stockpiling them in more than one forward base is just as silly. The jump drive changes are meant to make capital movement and their location a real strategic decision and being able to just board another ship of the exact same class because it's in another station is a stupid way to work against that.

I know people hate timers/status effect but the history of EVE show us this would be used unless it's it prevented by a hard rule. Something preventing you from boarding a new super unless the previous one was not boarded for X time OR was destroyed for example.

I could remove my request for such limitation only if it gets proven that such usage would be useless. How hard something is to implement is completely irrelevant because we know people will walk 100 miles uphill in the snow while juggling chainsaw in a meteor shower if there is a benefit at the end of it.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2014-10-22 21:00:45 UTC
The Cache/Jump Clone argument really doesn't stick here. Every major coalition is consolidating with this upcoming patch already, and locking up trillions of isk worth of additional assets to stockpile supers is a really bad idea.
Kesthely
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2014-10-22 21:42:51 UTC
While personally i would love beeing able to dock supers, so that i can finally buy one and not feel like wasting a lot of time/character potential balance wise and i do not think it a generally good idea.

Undocking games: With Supers capable of docking, you would get a whole new meta in the docking games, where station games and escape mechanics would be increadibly difficult to manage. Although certain good problem solutions would exist, eg extra long docking timers for supers, the inability to deagress within docking range of a station or infinate points makeing you unable to dock, the save storage of such supers would make the sovereign warfare even more inflexible as it is now. With supers beeing able to be stored inside a station, eg only one day of successfull claiming a station could mean to hundreds of supers beeing stationed in a normally hostile station. Such logoff tactics can potentially ruin the game.

This mechanic however could, be cirumvented with a new, rather unpleasent mechanic for super capitals. Allow supers only to dock in player constructed (conquerable) stations. If the Station is captured, All of the supers inside are captured as well.
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