Skill Discussions

ALL 4 warfare link skills to lvl 5???

I'm glad I had command ships trained before the nesting change a while back.

There's no reason someone who wants to fly a Sleipnir should have to train armored and info warfare links - about 20 days out of the way - for a ship that you probably won't run any links on in the first place, let alone unbonused armor and information warfare links.

Armored and info warfare links on a Sleipnir are modules that you *could* put on the ship, if you want to completely disregard the bonuses of the ship. By that logic, Hybrid Turret lvl 5 should be a prerequisite for Sleipnir as well!

Why stop there? Let's add heavy assault missiles 5 and repair systems 5 to the prerequisites of all HACs. to throw a wrench in the skill plan for vagabond!

If you can't tell, that's sarcasm. I would recommend removing non-racial warfare links from being nested into training for command ships.

I'll also point out:

Also embedded in my sarcasm is a criticism of the nesting of skills in general.

Why nest random skills into the training for T2 ships, rather than just making the primary skills for them longer?

Heavy Ion Blaster II is not a specialized module.

And also, the drake is equally capable and effective at using armored warfare links as a sleipnir.

I think you should read the skill descriptions for the Warfare skills required for the command ships.

Siege Warfere - Grants a 2% bonus to fleet members' shield capacity per skill level.
Skirmish Warfare - Grants a 2% bonus to fleet members' agility per skill level.
Information Warfare - Grants a 2% bonus to fleet members' targeting range per skill level.
Armored Warfare - Grants a 2% bonus to fleet members' armor hit points per skill level.

So in other words, the fleet support ships now assume that the pilots aren't numpties when it comes to leadership skills.

Now if the ship had required the Specialization version of the four leadership skills your point would have been valid, but it is just the basic skills that are required for what used to be the most skill intensive ship in game.

You do realise that the Command Ships skill allows you to fly Damnations as well as Sleipnirs, along with all 6 of the other command ships right? Therefore, being able to use all of the links is actually quite a good thing. If you just want the Sleipnir, then you're going to have to suck up the extra training time for the skills you think are 'unnecessary'.

And anyway, if I am remembering correctly, a command ship only requires the basic warfare link skill trained to level 1, which requires the basic leadership skill trained to V. As all of the basic leadership skills give a good boost to your fleet members skills, and your own assuming you're in a fleet in a squad/wing/fleet commander position, these are worth training anyway. The cost of the warfare skillbooks is tiny, and it only takes a couple of hours for each skill to train to level one.

Even better. So, what's the OP complaining about?

The other 2 leadership skills (not used by the cs/ link t3) apply as 10% passive boosts that need no links. While maybe a pita, these skills aren't wasted.

I have had shield tankers come home smoking from hull damage. I know full well it was from being in an armour heavy fleet (ergo armour booster) and the booster giving me 10% to my armour HP that had me come home alive. Lacking that 10% that extra shot or two the armour soaked up would have probably would have made the hull die.....


Also worth noting even in the old days any decent fleet or roam when looking for a fleet booster wanted the player who 5'd all basic leaderships anyway. CCP just made this more official. A good thing imo....a fleet booster not 5'd in all basic areas is rather half assed really. Fleet launching with a half assed booster just a bad sign as to what else can be half assed.

Got ships fitting sebo a pita? I also found the 10% info warfare target range helped here too. Not a sebo range script granted...but better than stock range when a sebo just not making it on to the fit.

For what it is worth...

I recently trained an alt to Wing Commander 5, with no other leadership skills. At first blush that might seem less than fully useful, but keep in mind that fleet commander bonuses are still passed.

Thanks to the wing commander bug (CCP knows about it, but not how to easily fix it), I've started training the alt in the other leadership skills; it takes about 5 days to get them to level 4, and 8 more days each for level 5. Warfare Link Specialist, which is a higher rank skill, is only needed when using links, and then one only needs level 4 for Command Ships, which takes 5 days.

Battlecruiser 5 is by far a more onerous prerequisite.

I just had this conversation with someone yesterday, and we both agreed that the training path for a Command Ship makes no sense. If CS were only boosting ships I could see the current training path being reasonable. I mean, you NEED the boosting skills to make a boosting ship viable. With CS ships being very capable combat ships I don't see the reason for the path you need to go down to get into them.

I have a combat toon that can fly all t2 sub BS except command ships. I forgot to plug the skill in before the change, and in my current remap it would take me roughly 47 days 9 hours 49 minutes and 6 seconds to be able to just plug it in.


Why do we need to train:

Armored Warfare 5
Info Warfare 5
Skirmish Warfare 5
Siege Warfare 5
Warfare Link Spec 4



The reason I am most annoyed by the pre-reqs is that those skills, without going to specs 5 + using t2 links + implant, are useless. You get minimal bonus from having those at 5, and most of the time you will have an offgrid booster with a medium/large fleet anyway.


CCP really needs to go over what the requirements are for this line of t2 ship. I wonder just how many people have actually done the full train for them since the change. Would probably show that not many people have. 47 days of training is much better spent on anything else. I would even rather do indy training on a combat toon before going down that path for CS.