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Gate smart bombing

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Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#21 - 2014-10-14 02:44:19 UTC
Keep in mind, Eve is an MMO, so if you can, bring friends, will make engaging those smartbombing battleships alot more efficient & fun.

So get a HIC & some friends in frigs/cruisers & take him out, he'll be tanking gateguns as you mentioned, so don't need much extra firepower to take him down. Or instead of a HIC, you & your friends all fit scrams & he'll be tied up too.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
Milan Nantucket
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-10-14 04:25:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Milan Nantucket
Kazekage Dono wrote:
So gate camping with smart bombs up untill now seems very very risk averse. Because of no need to lock they will fit loads of warp stabs. And bumping them out of range is not a good idea.

Cause unless you got 50 people to set on all gates they'll just wait out timer and leave. I mean gateguns are joke in the end.


So yeah my question, is there a counter?


A little research and thought would point you to a heavy interdictor with the warp disruption field generator with a script. Infinite point and if you already know the damage type of sb you can tank it. Throw a neut on it and well blap it....


There is your counter.

Seems a few people already said the same thing... so much for not reading past page 1
Brylan Grey
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-10-14 06:48:04 UTC
Hate smart bombing is a bottom dwellers dream. People that do it don't care about anything but what the number shows then on kill boards.

Skill? No thanks.
Tactics? What?
Battle fortitude? Never heard of it.

Overall, I abhor them, but they are a part of the game and a risk I take in low.

Would I like mechanics changed so they can't? I don't know. I am hesitant to suggest everything I dislike or worry about being removed from the game. I want some fear, some excitement.

I hate it. Won't do it. Think low of those that do. But should it be removed? Probably not. I like the idea that I enploy tactics that are seen as morally superior. It is something I feel defines me. If we changed the rules to be to my moral standards, I would suddenly become the most immoral player in game by sheer mechanics!
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2014-10-14 07:22:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
Brylan Grey wrote:
Hate smart bombing is a bottom dwellers dream. People that do it don't care about anything but what the number shows then on kill boards.

Skill? No thanks.
Tactics? What?
Battle fortitude? Never heard of it.

Overall, I abhor them, but they are a part of the game and a risk I take in low.

Would I like mechanics changed so they can't? I don't know. I am hesitant to suggest everything I dislike or worry about being removed from the game. I want some fear, some excitement.

I hate it. Won't do it. Think low of those that do. But should it be removed? Probably not. I like the idea that I enploy tactics that are seen as morally superior. It is something I feel defines me. If we changed the rules to be to my moral standards, I would suddenly become the most immoral player in game by sheer mechanics!


You sir are a little narrow minded lol. Have you ever heard of "Rooks and Kings"? Roll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNUu75fH8Uc - Its a long one, but feel enlightend

No Worries
Mag's
Azn Empire
#25 - 2014-10-14 10:02:08 UTC
Brylan Grey wrote:
Hate smart bombing is a bottom dwellers dream. People that do it don't care about anything but what the number shows then on kill boards.

Skill? No thanks.
Tactics? What?
Battle fortitude? Never heard of it.

Overall, I abhor them, but they are a part of the game and a risk I take in low.

Would I like mechanics changed so they can't? I don't know. I am hesitant to suggest everything I dislike or worry about being removed from the game. I want some fear, some excitement.

I hate it. Won't do it. Think low of those that do. But should it be removed? Probably not. I like the idea that I enploy tactics that are seen as morally superior. It is something I feel defines me. If we changed the rules to be to my moral standards, I would suddenly become the most immoral player in game by sheer mechanics!
So you've never done it, yet can claim to know it's skill level and requirements?

Also, what do morals have to do with anything?

But please do tell us more of other things you know nothing about and their moral impact. It sounds fascinating.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Solecist Project
#26 - 2014-10-14 10:05:39 UTC
Mag's wrote:
So you've never done it, yet can claim to know it's skill level and requirements?

Also, what do morals have to do with anything?

But please do tell us more of other things you know nothing about and their moral impact. It sounds fascinating.

His portrait is perfectly fitting for his stupid attitude.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#27 - 2014-10-14 10:08:40 UTC
Decian Cor wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:


and smartbombs themselves are seriously underpowered,
because the only ships they're really viable on to use are battleships.

And that makes them horribly inefficient, unless you fit officer type smartbombs ...



Can confirm, smartbombs on battleships are horribly inefficient.
Roll

EDIT: broken link. fixed.
Yes, they are.
And links to killboards aren't allowed in GD.

I am sure you've invested many, many hours in research into smartbombs
and how to put them to proper use ... like I did.

t1, named and t2 Smartbombs are horribly inefficient,
because the only ship they really have a use for is on battleships ...
... and on these they are ridiculously underpowered for the price of the hull one has to use.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Alastair Ormand
Mine all the things
#28 - 2014-10-14 10:22:31 UTC
Pull range out of smart bombs. Fit long range scram and go to town.

I discourage running with scissors.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#29 - 2014-10-14 10:33:18 UTC
Decian Cor wrote:
Can confirm, smartbombs on battleships are horribly inefficient.
Roll

Poor use of killboard links aside, Santo Trafficante will continue to use them efficiently, despite what we try to convince ourselves of in this thread.

He definitely has skill in his use of them.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-10-14 10:36:32 UTC
Alastair Ormand wrote:
Pull range out of smart bombs. Fit long range scram and go to town.


Assuming your still alive... Someone obviously hasnt been on the recieving end of an agressive smartbombing lol

.... is that an innuendo...

No Worries
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2014-10-14 10:54:37 UTC
Kazekage Dono wrote:
So gate camping with smart bombs up untill now seems very very risk averse. Because of no need to lock they will fit loads of warp stabs. And bumping them out of range is not a good idea.

Cause unless you got 50 people to set on all gates they'll just wait out timer and leave. I mean gateguns are joke in the end.


So yeah my question, is there a counter?


HIC
Problem solved

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Backyard Pooper
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-10-14 10:58:32 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

t1, named and t2 Smartbombs are horribly inefficient,
because the only ship they really have a use for is on battleships ....

Confirming smartbombs on cruisers are horribly inefficient!
Solecist Project
#33 - 2014-10-14 14:14:12 UTC
Backyard Pooper wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:

t1, named and t2 Smartbombs are horribly inefficient,
because the only ship they really have a use for is on battleships ....

Confirming smartbombs on cruisers are horribly inefficient!

Hi Jennifer en Marland.

Your link proves my point and your ignorance and cluelessness.

You are free to mention the fitting you need to instapop pods and a shuttle
on a cruiser, which proves that they are underpowered.

A destroyer even with a full set of t2 small smartbombs can't even do it.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Backyard Pooper
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-10-14 15:08:29 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Hi Jennifer en Marland.
Speaking about cluelessness ... at least we have something in common: a bad memory for names.

Solecist Project wrote:
Your link proves my point and your ignorance and cluelessness.

You are free to mention the fitting you need to instapop pods and a shuttle
on a cruiser,
It's all on my killboard but to safe you the time: 3 large ones kill every pod, 2 large explosive meta ones most, but not all pods. Alternatively 5 medium meta ones but they have less range and can be difficult to handle, thanks to EVE's keyboard code.

Solecist Project wrote:
which proves that they are underpowered.

A destroyer even with a full set of t2 small smartbombs can't even do it.
Why do you think a destroyer should be able to alpha every pod in its vicinity?
Solecist Project
#35 - 2014-10-14 15:39:07 UTC
Yes I do well remember your main.

Thank you for pointing out the issue and sorry for not looking it
up on the killboard myself. on mobile it's a horror.

It needs two or three LARGE smartbombs,
which makes for a horrible fitting on a cruiser.

At best one gets 1k alpha out of a horribly overpriced cruiser.

It needs two volleys on destroyers to kill a pod.

You take your kills and ignore that what you need to achieve this is
way out of relation to what it actually achieves, compared to the fitting.

We did disco runs, three people in cruisers. The conclusion was that
everything below a battleship is completely pointless to use,
because of lack of range and alpha.

That's unreasonable for the cost involved.

Using cruisers is unreasonable, because of the low range and the
comparatively high fitting costs to get aa subpar alpha from it.

Destroyers are being the closest to actual sense,
although not even a full set of t2 smartbombs can pop a pod.

And yes... it should be doable at least with t2.


Smartbombs are the red headed stepchild of all weapon systems
and are completely broken either because there is no dedicated ship for them
which gives proper bonuses, or because they themselves lack range or alpha.

Alternatively, making AWU affect powergrid needs would actually be very helpfull already.

It might make them reasonable to use on cruisers.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Backyard Pooper
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-10-14 17:15:52 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
It needs two or three LARGE smartbombs,
which makes for a horrible fitting on a cruiser.

At best one gets 1k alpha out of a horribly overpriced cruiser.

1340 actually with good fitting skills (which this char doesn't have) for 4 large meta and one medium T2 smartbomb. With good fitting skills a Maller with 3 large meta smartbombs and the required fitting foo currently only costs roughly 16.5 mil with nothing in midslots or rigs. The PG rigs that I have to use due to low skills nearly double the costs but that is entirely my own fault and as I don't loose the ship most of the time (the shuttle above was collateral damage btw), I don't really care. Thanks to the RCU rebalance recently these costs went down significantly as I only need one PG rig instead of three now, despite my low skills. In fact, this char is profitable ISK-wise from the bounties I get from killed ganker pods alone.

Solecist Project wrote:
We did disco runs, three people in cruisers. The conclusion was that
everything below a battleship is completely pointless to use,
because of lack of range and alpha.

That's unreasonable for the cost involved.

I can't comment on this without knowing what your target was.

Solecist Project wrote:
Using cruisers is unreasonable, because of the low range and the
comparatively high fitting costs to get aa subpar alpha from it.

For some targets it's the right tool, for some it is not. Speaking of choosing the right tool for the job ...

Solecist Project wrote:
Destroyers are being the closest to actual sense,
although not even a full set of t2 smartbombs can pop a pod.

And yes... it should be doable at least with t2.

I'm against this because of how much damage ISK-wise smartbombs can inflict. I was already surprised that one can put so many large smartbombs on a cheap cruiser hull when I was looking for a cheaper alternative for SB battleships and tbh: I think that is also wrong. But that is my opinion, I'm not trying to state it as facts.

Solecist Project wrote:
Smartbombs are the red headed stepchild of all weapon systems
and are completely broken either because there is no dedicated ship for them
which gives proper bonuses, or because they themselves lack range or alpha.

Alternatively, making AWU affect powergrid needs would actually be very helpfull already.

I'm not saying that smartbombs are great as they are: especially being able to group them, as it's possible with most other weapon systems, would be really helpful. I even could get behind the AWU idea, but making dirt cheap destroyers being able to alpha pods is, in my opinion, way overpowered.
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-10-14 17:47:19 UTC
Kazekage Dono wrote:
So gate camping with smart bombs up untill now seems very very risk averse. Because of no need to lock they will fit loads of warp stabs. And bumping them out of range is not a good idea.

Cause unless you got 50 people to set on all gates they'll just wait out timer and leave. I mean gateguns are joke in the end.


So yeah my question, is there a counter?


There's always a path through a pipebomb.

Basically, take the old nullsec advice, and never warp gate-to-gate, even in lowsec.
The pipebombers need to leave an opening for their own guys to get through, and lots of times, they don't even bother with covering all paths in.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Solecist Project
#38 - 2014-10-14 19:18:50 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Decian Cor wrote:
Can confirm, smartbombs on battleships are horribly inefficient.
Roll

Poor use of killboard links aside, Santo Trafficante will continue to use them efficiently, despite what we try to convince ourselves of in this thread.

He definitely has skill in his use of them.

The general masses don't use a blackops with billion ISK disco...

... and it's not about efficient use,
but about the fact that they are inefficient in relation to fitting requirements and their capabilities.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#39 - 2014-10-14 19:28:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
@ Backyard pooper (mobile here again, quotes quotes quotes argh)

Low fitting skills. Yes, I was talking about the PG rigs. Now consider the short
amount of time one needs to skill even for t2 small ones. It's a weapon system
with a low entry barrier!

Skilling Pulse weapons to V is pointless except for t2 large bombs most don't use ...
... and for a 6.5sec RoF with heat.

Smartbombs, when we take skilling time, are a weapons system with a low entry barrier.
That makes it a great thing for new players who want to dive all-in!

It makes no sense that a set of t2 can't insta a pod. Instead one has to tank a coercer to
tank the sentries long enough for a second blast ... which gets the job done, btw.
That, though, doesn't scale well with their low entry requirements!

Cruisers for ganking... disregarding the targets, are really bad. One needs to tank
them too, so one gets off enough volleys for it to matter.

And here again in relation ... using a battleship allows to fit enough tank for lots of volleys,
but the damage doesn't really scale with it. Consider the cost!
That's why I believe that Smartbombs simply are unbalanced.

There is no proper scale among the module sizes, nor in regards to shipsizes.


I haven't looked at the new RCUs... good call!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Decian Cor
Stronghelm Corporation
Solyaris Chtonium
#40 - 2014-10-14 20:13:04 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Decian Cor wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:


and smartbombs themselves are seriously underpowered,
because the only ships they're really viable on to use are battleships.

And that makes them horribly inefficient, unless you fit officer type smartbombs ...



Can confirm, smartbombs on battleships are horribly inefficient.
Roll

EDIT: broken link. fixed.
Yes, they are.
And links to killboards aren't allowed in GD.

I am sure you've invested many, many hours in research into smartbombs
and how to put them to proper use ... like I did.

t1, named and t2 Smartbombs are horribly inefficient,
because the only ship they really have a use for is on battleships ...
... and on these they are ridiculously underpowered for the price of the hull one has to use.



Maybe in terms of the actual module operation they can be rather inefficient with a long cycle time and an AOE of only 5km for a large bomb, but multiple instances such as the one shown above indicate that when used properly they can be quite devastating. Also, they can be quite useful in getting drones off your back in the bigger fights.

If you consistently subscribe to the meta, then sure, you'll probably only find a use for it on a battleship. One could say the same thing about certain ECCM modules that are too powerful for smaller hulls. It really lies upon your shoulders to find new and interesting ways to do things.

But that would require gameplay..





[u]Unfiltered for the masses.[/u]

http://imgur.com/mzSl1Ie
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