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Hybrid Changes and you
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mkjkgkvk Melkan
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-11-26 00:27:31 UTC
So re:the new hybrid changes...

Are we going to see vindicators as the new fotm mission runners?

How about rail fit proteus?

Are there any other ships that are even going to be remotely relevant for PVE that benefit, and is PVP still an AC game?

I am just not convinced rails are gonna be back in the game at all (not that they ever even were) and what worries me is that we wont see further tweaks....

Thoughts?
Goose99
#2 - 2011-11-26 01:44:01 UTC
mkjkgkvk Melkan wrote:
So re:the new hybrid changes...

Are we going to see vindicators as the new fotm mission runners?

How about rail fit proteus?

Are there any other ships that are even going to be remotely relevant for PVE that benefit, and is PVP still an AC game?

I am just not convinced rails are gonna be back in the game at all (not that they ever even were) and what worries me is that we wont see further tweaks....

Thoughts?


Rails still fail.
Elsa Nietchize
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-11-26 02:26:30 UTC
CCP thinks they fixed hybrids. they didn't. expect to wait another 2 years before they make a 2nd attempt at it.
Captain Nares
O3 Corporation
#4 - 2011-11-26 02:29:34 UTC
Well, current hybrid buff doesn't solve hybrid problem. Deimos will still suck Smile
However it is OK as a temporary measure.

First of all, it will affect few hybrid ships which were already OK (I mean Serpentis ships). Good ship + 15% DPS = even better ship.

Secondly, hybrid buff may (and I hope it will) bring some changes into fleet formats. Together with tier 3 BC's.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#5 - 2011-11-26 12:56:58 UTC
CCP Tallest wrote:
As you may have noticed, I have been afk for the last week or so.
I am back at work now and will try to address the concerns that have been expressed while I was away.

As Soundwave and Affinity have explained for me in my absence, the cutoff date for changes that make it into the Crucible expansion has already passed (and had already passed when I went away).

As it turned out, I only had time to do one extra pass on the changes after they hit SISI. These changes (to the changes) were based on your feedback from this thread. There were many other suggestions here that I would love to do, but didn't have enough time to do them properly for this release. In the future, I will make sure that I have more time to make changes based on your feedback. The feedback that you was posted after the cutoff is far from worthless. I've read every single post and written down notes for future reference.

What we have now is a start. After Crucible come out, I will definitely be doing further balancing.
Here are some of the things relating to hybrid ships that we will be looking further into in the coming weeks/months:

* Further tweaking of individual ships.
* Tech II ammo needs a better look at, especially Null-Scorch-Barrage.
* Active tanking vs passive tanking. And by extension, armor tanking vs shield tanking.
* Small and Medium Webifier drones.
* Give tech I hybrid ammo variations for each range, like projectile ammo. Maybe the same for lasers.
* Something to help blaster ships get into range. There are several good suggestions on how to do this; Webifier range bonus, MWD speed bonus, change the armor rig penalty, increase base speed or even a new type of module. We might do some of them, all of them or something completely different.

p.s. I have also updated the OP with the final list of changes.
Elsa Nietchize
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-11-26 13:28:59 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
...


are you implying iterative development? Cause while CCP likes to talk about about it, I don't think they've ever actually implemented it.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-11-26 13:30:37 UTC
Elsa Nietchize wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
...


are you implying iterative development? Cause while CCP likes to talk about about it, I don't think they've ever actually implemented it.



I think that it's exactly what was implied by Tallest.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#8 - 2011-11-26 13:54:33 UTC
Actually doesn't change anything for me:

I'll still be using projectiles over hybrids in fleets

I'll still be using projectiles over hybrids in gangs

But I'll use blaster stuff sometimes for lols, they're slightly better but doesn't change their fights aptitudes enough to make them viable options vs projectiles lasers.
HAC gangs I'll still use vagas or cynas, diemost is still diemost.
Kymara
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-11-26 15:06:13 UTC
CCP iterates allright.

They've looked at this problem twice in eight years, that iterating something the CCP way
mkjkgkvk Melkan
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-11-26 15:59:57 UTC
I just wonder if they should just stop half assing the role of hybrids... shouldnt hybrids just kick out an eft-warriors wet dream of DPS but always within falloff? Thus fittings should be about range and tracking management as opposed to outright dps modding of the other weapon systems?

People say outright dps buffing isnt the way to go but i wonder if it is? just make dps increase massive, then lower optimals and increase falloff. They probably wont be viable solo but as part of a small gang with dedicated webbers etc we could see some interesting ****.

Give the damn things a role, albiet a niche one!!!
Majuan Shuo
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2011-11-26 16:14:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Majuan Shuo
I always liked the ideas of having MWD scripts.

one script could be it increases the boost a MWD gives by a factor of something ridiculous - like 10 - but the penalty would be that after one cycle of running the MWD turns off for a very long "cooldown period"

this would allow blaster ships to act like NFL linebackers - normally slow(ish and relatively speaking) brutes capable of brief sprints that allow them to catch their prey

it would be somewhat balanced because of the cooldown period and I think bring a lot of flavor back into flying gallente ships

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
laffbot
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-11-26 16:27:52 UTC
javlien will be wtf lol pwn

Kariel Lateef
Space Meanies Inc.
#13 - 2011-11-26 17:13:11 UTC
I've never understood why people hate hybrids for PVE, I fly almost exclusively railships, and have ships rigged for missiles and projectiles. I like my rails better. I will keep in mind that I fly small ships only (frigate and destroyer hulls). Myself I am looking forward to the buff, my AF and destroyers will benefit, but I fly these for PVE missions and complexes now with no worries so for me this bonus is just that, a bonus.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#14 - 2011-11-26 17:27:43 UTC
Kariel Lateef wrote:
I've never understood why people hate hybrids for PVE, I fly almost exclusively railships, and have ships rigged for missiles and projectiles. I like my rails better. I will keep in mind that I fly small ships only (frigate and destroyer hulls). Myself I am looking forward to the buff, my AF and destroyers will benefit, but I fly these for PVE missions and complexes now with no worries so for me this bonus is just that, a bonus.


That's because small hybrids are more or less alright now. The boost really is gravy for them. Still welcome, but gravy.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#15 - 2011-11-26 17:49:04 UTC
Elsa Nietchize wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
...


are you implying iterative development? Cause while CCP likes to talk about about it, I don't think they've ever actually implemented it.


I have a few things in response to that. The first is that CCP Tallest is a dev dedicated to just balancing. I should hope he continues in that regard. The second thing I'd like to add is the timeline CCP had in buffing the Amarr. This is the date and the context of dev blogs in the past that came out.

June 2007 - Nerf to EM resistance on armour modules.
July 2007 - Ship balancing
August 2007 - Ship balancing
January 2008 - Pulses given 25% more tracking. 10% EM resistance nerf to all T1 ships. Values across the board recalculated.
February 2008 - Yet more ship balancing
SpaceSquirrels
#16 - 2011-11-26 19:12:32 UTC
Didnt read that latest dev post will be interesting to see the tanking changes. And see if we can get some sort of passive armor tanking finally. Hybrids might need a slight ROF change as well to increase effectiveness v. other weapons. But many of the issues also came from fitting rather than overall damage of hybrids.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2011-11-27 00:12:47 UTC
rails will work "ok" on only a few ships.

dual 150's - navy vex, myrm, and ishtar; they outperform AC's at range, and these ships already have stuff going for them (drones, solid tanks)

250's - Proteus, which will be the best in the "armor HAC" role; thats if you wanna fly it over a 1k dps neutron Proteus.

350's/425's - will be fun on a sentry Domi; lots of long range dps.

blasters will not be more viable in any way whatsoever than they are currently. at least not until ship and ammo buffs occur.
I likegirls
Lost Puppy Relocation Services
Sorority
#18 - 2011-11-27 01:03:40 UTC
Yep, I already bought a couple of vindicators fit them up nicely Shocked
Fattymcbutterpants
Drama Llamas
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#19 - 2011-11-27 06:15:35 UTC
I am anxious to see the potential of a blaster Mega after the patch.. With the changes to tracking and the already great bonus's the mega gives in that department I think it will be very effective in a small/medium gang.

And yes the Deimos is still going to be the diemost, they've only made it a more sensible ship to primary. But that wont keep me from flying it..
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2011-11-27 10:33:48 UTC
Highly disappointed so far, still waiting for the the fix to web strength, the real reason why they became so awful for gank and solo pvp 3 years ago.