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[Phoebe] Long Distance Travel Changes - updates!

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Dwissi
Miners Delight Reborn
#1601 - 2014-10-20 18:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Dwissi
Making the eve universe a 'uniform' place is wrong to start with. Regional differences in appearance and nature, differences in reachability and traffic - all that has to stay to keep Eve a diverse and interesting universe.

By uni forming everything in Eve conflicts become obsolete - by keeping diversity and areas that are worth more than others constant conflict is kind of pre-programmed. Not every system HAS to be reachable by jumps - its actually very healthy if they are not to keep the diversity most players want.

Proud designer of glasses for geeky dovakins

Before someone complains again: grr everyone

Greed is the death of loyalty
Tikitina
Doomheim
#1602 - 2014-10-20 18:24:45 UTC
Dwissi wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:

My point is that a big reason that 0.0 exists in the way it does today is because you've made the logistics side TOO easy. In fact the commentary on this done by the CSM rep CoreBloodBrothers is a very good point to this (I listened to the interview he gave with Bob's Corner). It shouldn't take one JF pilot a few minutes to jump goods to a whole region like that... Think about all the PVP that is potentially wasted becuase things like Freighter OPS using gates are a thing of the past now. Can you image the amount of loss that would happen when you loose 10-20 freighters full of goods?! In fact I seem to remember this actually happening a couple times before all this bridge foolishness was released. Honestly, you should just remove pos bridges completely while you are at it.


Oh my god - i cant believe this. Finally a voice that points out what i posted a few days back. Get completely rid of those jump bridges!!!

+1 and my full support to a player who has actually been in the real industry mess of null :)



I was in several 3-5 freighter supply convoys 20-40 jump into null sec before Jump Freighters and it was some of the most nail biting pvp I've ever been in.

The chaos of getting chased then cutoff and trapped and then logging them off safely was pretty intense.

Then getting the Alliance to log back in at the same time to get them the rest of the way without getting trapped again was interesting. It worked out though. I think we only lost 1 of the 5 on that trip.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#1603 - 2014-10-20 18:29:23 UTC
Tikitina wrote:
I was in several 3-5 freighter supply convoys 20-40 jump into null sec before Jump Freighters and it was some of the most nail biting pvp I've ever been in.

If you say it enough times I guess you can even convince yourself that it's true.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#1604 - 2014-10-20 20:47:48 UTC
Eve Phoebe: Didn't want those regions anyways

Say THAT enough times and I'll bet you'll convince yourself that's true too.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#1605 - 2014-10-20 20:59:23 UTC
Tikitina wrote:

I was in several 3-5 freighter supply convoys 20-40 jump into null sec before Jump Freighters and it was some of the most nail biting pvp I've ever been in.


lets just mosey on over to the corp history

Quote:
CURRENT CORPORATION
Imperial Academy [IAC] from 2013.08.18 16:17 to this day


oh the person extolling the virtues of freighter ops has never been in anything but a npc corp, you say

what a shock
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1606 - 2014-10-20 21:04:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord TGR
Andy Landen wrote:
Not useless, just delayed. Want to know how long before someone arrives? Take the distance and divide the travel speed. Pretty simple math actually. Again, if time is the issue, CCP has already stated that they desire stargates to be the default option for traveling fast.

Want everyone to arrive together and at the same time? Then everyone jumps to a staging point. The time of travel from the staging location to the destination will be the exact same for everyone.

So you've got someone who suddenly appears 5LY outside your space to gank a POS. You gather a fleet and initiate a jump to that system. An hour later, when the fleet finally arrives, they realize that the people they tried to catch left 50 minutes ago.

So, useless. Greyscale's solution doesn't ruin this aspect of it, whereas yours does.

Andy Landen wrote:
JBs still function normally for subcaps and allow instant travel, so they are not scrapped in any way. If caps can use stargates, I think they should be able to use jump bridges AGAIN too (CCP scrapped capital usage of jbs a while back). Cynos could still be used to provide a common destination where bookmarks and celestials are not desired for a common destination, so they would not be scrapped either.

Except the same mechanics have been added to the JBs because they allow "projection of power", so yes, they're also useless.

Andy Landen wrote:
Yep. Break up blue donuts and force alliances to use stargates and jump bridges beyond their own borders or to jump through ls/npc null sec space. CCP wants regional fights to be regional and that means that alliances in distant regions cannot jump across large distances instantly deep into another alliance's territory. To that end, blue jbs should also be limited to each respective alliance.

The proper way to "break up the blue donuts" is to make a sov system which actually behaves in a sandboxy way. Stopping someone from cynoing into another alliance's space just because it's another alliance's space, as opposed to because the alliance has a cynojammer online, is not sandboxy in any way, shape or form, and it won't do what you think it'll do.

And, do you remember the eye of terror goons had/have? Yeah, we'd have more of those. A lot more. Woo, fun.
Josef Djugashvilis
#1607 - 2014-10-20 21:23:52 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Tikitina wrote:

I was in several 3-5 freighter supply convoys 20-40 jump into null sec before Jump Freighters and it was some of the most nail biting pvp I've ever been in.


lets just mosey on over to the corp history

Quote:
CURRENT CORPORATION
Imperial Academy [IAC] from 2013.08.18 16:17 to this day


oh the person extolling the virtues of freighter ops has never been in anything but a npc corp, you say

what a shock


There is a reason Eve Online is known as Alts Online.

One of my other accounts has been playing since October 2004 for example.

This is not a signature.
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1608 - 2014-10-20 23:02:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy Landen
Lord TGR wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:
Not useless, just delayed. Want to know how long before someone arrives? Take the distance and divide the travel speed. Pretty simple math actually. Again, if time is the issue, CCP has already stated that they desire stargates to be the default option for traveling fast.

Want everyone to arrive together and at the same time? Then everyone jumps to a staging point. The time of travel from the staging location to the destination will be the exact same for everyone.

So you've got someone who suddenly appears 5LY outside your space to gank a POS. You gather a fleet and initiate a jump to that system. An hour later, when the fleet finally arrives, they realize that the people they tried to catch left 50 minutes ago.

So, useless. Greyscale's solution doesn't ruin this aspect of it, whereas yours does.
...
Except the same mechanics have been added to the JBs because they allow "projection of power", so yes, they're also useless.
...
The proper way to "break up the blue donuts" is to make a sov system which actually behaves in a sandboxy way. Stopping someone from cynoing into another alliance's space just because it's another alliance's space, as opposed to because the alliance has a cynojammer online, is not sandboxy in any way, shape or form, and it won't do what you think it'll do.
...

If their intel was so bad that they didn't realize that there target had been gone for 50 minutes, you have to wonder about their scouts! If they chose to take an hour long jump to hit a target that could disappear in seconds, you have to wonder about why their FC did not take the fleet through the gates on a roam. Bad scouts and bad FCs will kill the effectiveness of any organization. No sense in trying to empower "fail" by removing the need for strategy and tactics. As you have pointed out, I have no issue ruining "fail".

While I never intended to apply the temporal delay to jump bridges, I am not opposed to it for either jump bridges or stargates or whs for that matter; but I am currently not proposing travel times for any of these. Since the number of locations are limited in number and in remaining within alliance boundaries, the power projection is not so critical, because reds cannot use jump bridges to go deep within enemy territory (within seconds) unlike the current jump drive mechanics. Penetrating red space should be difficult and extraction should be ten times as difficult, but current jump mechanics remove risk and strategic planning of movement for fast and easy movement through enemy sovereignty. Thus sov means very little because anyone can move through any part of "your" space at will.

"Sand box" means no established story line. It does not mean that you get to have whatever you want, whenever you want, however you want (etc) without risk or consequences, etc etc. Sov needs to mean something or it doesn't provide meaningful context for pvp! (As has been already noted in this thread many times.)

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Byson1
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1609 - 2014-10-21 02:18:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Byson1
You know what makes me made? You know what makes me so angry I could stuff a interceptor right up a T3's back side and tell it to cough?Shocked

These fundemental changes to the game with no concideration to the time players have put in for training skills with the understanding of how things work. Do you know how much time i spent on prints getting them above perfect and yet a good portion of them are now less than perfect? And people who didnt spend that time got the same benefit? Stole my time!

This time around trianed up all the cap skills, all the jump skills. It took a long time. I could have been training other combat skills, but i sacrificed to train the jump skills instead for the benefit that is now gone Evil

I can see how you think the changes are necessary. OK. Still you should reimburse us some of the lost time.

I stand by what I say. If your goal is to increase the number of small engagements then you have to increase the number of people who actually live in null. The only way to do that is by letting industry work. The only reason there are not more people in null now is because it reflects the current situation industry is in.

Why are there hundreds, thousands even in Jita? for the lvl 4 missions? No its because of industry. You let industry work let us be able to move goods to and from the systems we want to live in. The level we are able to do that will be reflected by how many people live in null. I know there are other factors, but industry is the foundation. Despite what other people realize.

I don't think it means what they think it means
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1610 - 2014-10-21 03:52:25 UTC
Byson1 wrote:
You know what makes me made? You know what makes me so angry I could stuff a interceptor right up a T3's back side and tell it to cough?Shocked

These fundemental changes to the game with no concideration to the time players have put in for training skills with the understanding of how things work. Do you know how much time i spent on prints getting them above perfect and yet a good portion of them are now less than perfect? And people who didnt spend that time got the same benefit? Stole my time!

This time around trianed up all the cap skills, all the jump skills. It took a long time. I could have been training other combat skills, but i sacrificed to train the jump skills instead for the benefit that is now gone Evil

I can see how you think the changes are necessary. OK. Still you should reimburse us some of the lost time.

I stand by what I say. If your goal is to increase the number of small engagements then you have to increase the number of people who actually live in null. The only way to do that is by letting industry work. The only reason there are not more people in null now is because it reflects the current situation industry is in.

Why are there hundreds, thousands even in Jita? for the lvl 4 missions? No its because of industry. You let industry work let us be able to move goods to and from the systems we want to live in. The level we are able to do that will be reflected by how many people live in null. I know there are other factors, but industry is the foundation. Despite what other people realize.

I don't think it means what they think it means


You missed the part where this is just the second change to null out of many mnay changes over the next two years. You are not getting a skill point refund.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1611 - 2014-10-21 03:54:28 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:


There is a reason Eve Online is known as Alts Online.

One of my other accounts has been playing since October 2004 for example.


Then they should post on their main.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1612 - 2014-10-21 05:20:08 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
If their intel was so bad that they didn't realize that there target had been gone for 50 minutes, you have to wonder about their scouts! If they chose to take an hour long jump to hit a target that could disappear in seconds, you have to wonder about why their FC did not take the fleet through the gates on a roam. Bad scouts and bad FCs will kill the effectiveness of any organization. No sense in trying to empower "fail" by removing the need for strategy and tactics. As you have pointed out, I have no issue ruining "fail".

No, that's how your changes would work, i.e. they would make caps absolutely useless as an offensive platform. Greyscale's suggestion doesn't do away with that.

Andy Landen wrote:
While I never intended to apply the temporal delay to jump bridges, I am not opposed to it for either jump bridges or stargates or whs for that matter; but I am currently not proposing travel times for any of these. Since the number of locations are limited in number and in remaining within alliance boundaries, the power projection is not so critical, because reds cannot use jump bridges to go deep within enemy territory (within seconds) unlike the current jump drive mechanics. Penetrating red space should be difficult and extraction should be ten times as difficult, but current jump mechanics remove risk and strategic planning of movement for fast and easy movement through enemy sovereignty. Thus sov means very little because anyone can move through any part of "your" space at will.

"Sov" doesn't mean **** in the real world either, not uness you actually back up your claim of sovereignty with force.

And as for JBs, their problem isn't as a "power projection platform for the reds", but for the blues. You seem to be flying in the face of everyone when you don't want JBs nerfed even further. than they already are.

Andy Landen wrote:
"Sand box" means no established story line. It does not mean that you get to have whatever you want, whenever you want, however you want (etc) without risk or consequences, etc etc. Sov needs to mean something or it doesn't provide meaningful context for pvp! (As has been already noted in this thread many times.)

No, "sandbox" means you establish a set of rules, and you play within those rules. There are some rules which make sense, like "you cannot cyno into someone's system because they have a cynojammer up", and then there are some rules which do not make sense, such as your idea of "you cannot cyno into a system because it's just some other alliance's sov".

The first example is sandboxy, the second is not.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1613 - 2014-10-21 06:55:13 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Turrann Dallocort wrote:

Can we please take some time now to talk about some changes to the Rorq? I would be glad to change out some of my drone for the ability to go 10ly. This is far more important to me than drones at this moment, until you all redo the rorq completely.


Yup, absolutely we can talk about it :) This proposal doesn't seem terrible to me, does anyone else have an opinion or supporting arguments?




Speaking as a rorqual pilot (with 11 hulk miners, 1 of which can give max rorq boosts, but 2 have cap industrial ships 5);

I think the change you should make depends on where you, CCP, really want the rorqual to be, in the longer run.
Is it your intent to have them in the belt, or boosting from inside of a pos?

If the rorqual is going to be boosting from a pos, the drone bonus is pointless. You could take away most of the bandwidth and drone bay away even if you wanted to.

However, if you actually want to incentivize having the rorqual in the belt, if you want rorqual owners to be able to make use of the compression on site, while giving boosts, and to be more vulnerable than 'afk 23/7' in the pos, the drone bonus (among some other necessary changes) is essential for giving the rorqual the ability to provide defensive support for mining ships, as well as to have some form of punch to fight back against small roaming gangs/solo pvpers.

To that end, considering that I am greatly hopeful that you plan to make the rorqual actually worth using in the belts (because currently, it is not by a long shot, the long industrial cycle time being the biggest complication, but uselessness of capital tractor beams when working with a large group of miners is also up there), and so:

I hope that you will leave the drone bonus on the rorqual, even if it means keeping it at 5ly.
Josef Djugashvilis
#1614 - 2014-10-21 07:05:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:


There is a reason Eve Online is known as Alts Online.

One of my other accounts has been playing since October 2004 for example.


Then they should post on their main.


Why?

Lordy Baltec, you do whinge just for the sake of whinging!

I use this character far, far more than my older one, so which one is my main?

This is not a signature.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1615 - 2014-10-21 07:26:00 UTC
Byson1 wrote:


I stand by what I say. If your goal is to increase the number of small engagements then you have to increase the number of people who actually live in null. The only way to do that is by letting industry work. The only reason there are not more people in null now is because it reflects the current situation industry is in.

Why are there hundreds, thousands even in Jita? for the lvl 4 missions? No its because of industry. You let industry work let us be able to move goods to and from the systems we want to live in. The level we are able to do that will be reflected by how many people live in null. I know there are other factors, but industry is the foundation. Despite what other people realize.

I don't think it means what they think it means


You understand we still have more then a year of planed changes to null right how about you wait till you see what they are going to do before you go on a rant next time

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#1616 - 2014-10-21 11:20:06 UTC
Querns wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
The goal of long distance travel changes IS to limit force projection and its various aspects. It IS NOT "to make taking gates be, in general, faster than jumping capital ships.

Your premise is wrong.

It sounds like you're complaining that you have to make one jump because there are HS systems blocking you from gate to gate travel?? Make the one jump and forget about it. It looks like CCP just created 3 areas of new and interesting fun.


Actually, it's not. From the long distance travel changes devblog:

Quote:

We are going to allow capital ships to use gates in lowsec/nullsec, and we are aiming to make gate-to-gate travel take less time than jump travel over distances of more than ~20 LY. We've run simulations for capital ships travelling between arbitrary pairs of systems, and settled on the target movement speed of no less than 3 minutes per lightyear for travel over 20 LY. This should allow us to bring about the main change we want to see – less sustained use of jump travel – while still preserving its value for short bursts of movement.


I feel that the issue I've brought up is in the same spirit as the section I've quoted. Having these natural barriers in place and forcing you to accrue fatigue just to get into an area seems counterproductive.


I think the spirit of the change is to break the donut buy breaking long distance travel. The 'greater than 20LY use gates' is what is known as a metric. They picked a data point (20LY) to be the turning point. This change isn't about making gates faster > 20LY, it's about getting rid of instant teleportation of massive fleets. The change isn't about distances >20LY... so your premise is wrong.

You've correctly quoted a quote but aiming at a data point of 20LY is a target to reach the goal not the goal itself. Either way, I like the 3 islands you have to jump to. If everything is always the same.... it's boring, so having these 3 areas you have to jump to seems like a potential point to interdict support fleets coming to a fight.
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#1617 - 2014-10-21 11:28:09 UTC
Valterra Craven's post crystallized an idea for me.....

That logistics is just too easy - and that's why the design intent seems not to match what players then do (sandbox).

The timer and fatigue system does indeed seem to be inelegant and I can understand some players objections. What I don't quite understand is why this ended up being the change needed, when a relatively simple tweak (then with further support changes) might well accomplish the same - and a whole lot more.

Why not tweak jump fuel usage and fuel bay sizes so that Capitals have to refuel every 5(?) LY instead? No timers, no building measures of fatigue - just the need to refuel.

Fuel then has to accompany and or be pre-positioned. Make the Rorqual have a secondary 'refuelling station' role (where the Industrial Core does indeed generate a POS-like shield wherein refuelling takes place). JF and the Rorquals have bigger fuel bays. Other ships, could, have the ability to carry fuel as well.

Large assaults - more fuel.

If it works, then I'd seriously suggest that ALL ships end up using fuel (except capsules). It doesn't have to be the same fuel as jump fuel and could even be an isk-sink. Normal space flight uses a bit of fuel; afterburners and then MWDs yet more propgressively; and warping to gates costs some. All usage dependent on mass.

Real logistics is needed for fuel, ammo and maintenace/replacement. EVE only has a relatively small ammo usage and little maintenance and then some replacement. But fuel is the big driver....

(Author is ex-RL Military Logistics Officer) - also let Rorq's into High Sec with similar properties to JFs - and the on-grid within shields mining boosts; per my earlier post herein.

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#1618 - 2014-10-21 11:43:34 UTC
Marcus Tedric wrote:
Valterra Craven's post crystallized an idea for me.....

That logistics is just too easy - and that's why the design intent seems not to match what players then do (sandbox).

The timer and fatigue system does indeed seem to be inelegant and I can understand some players objections. What I don't quite understand is why this ended up being the change needed, when a relatively simple tweak (then with further support changes) might well accomplish the same - and a whole lot more.

Why not tweak jump fuel usage and fuel bay sizes so that Capitals have to refuel every 5(?) LY instead? No timers, no building measures of fatigue - just the need to refuel.

Fuel then has to accompany and or be pre-positioned. Make the Rorqual have a secondary 'refuelling station' role (where the Industrial Core does indeed generate a POS-like shield wherein refuelling takes place). JF and the Rorquals have bigger fuel bays. Other ships, could, have the ability to carry fuel as well.

Large assaults - more fuel.

If it works, then I'd seriously suggest that ALL ships end up using fuel (except capsules). It doesn't have to be the same fuel as jump fuel and could even be an isk-sink. Normal space flight uses a bit of fuel; afterburners and then MWDs yet more propgressively; and warping to gates costs some. All usage dependent on mass.

Real logistics is needed for fuel, ammo and maintenace/replacement. EVE only has a relatively small ammo usage and little maintenance and then some replacement. But fuel is the big driver....

(Author is ex-RL Military Logistics Officer) - also let Rorq's into High Sec with similar properties to JFs - and the on-grid within shields mining boosts; per my earlier post herein.


That's just... Yuck. It wouldn't solve the power teleportation problem - at the worst you'd just have to bring a JF along. It would just add a tedious step. Fuel for all ships traveling anywhere.... How does that add any fun to the game? Rorqs into HS.... and what give them 10LY so they can be the new JF out of Jita???
Yroc Jannseen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1619 - 2014-10-21 11:54:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Yroc Jannseen
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Turrann Dallocort wrote:
Mr Greyscale,
Can we please take some time now to talk about some changes to the Rorq? I would be glad to change out some of my drone for the ability to go 10ly. This is far more important to me than drones at this moment, until you all redo the rorq completely.


Yup, absolutely we can talk about it :) This proposal doesn't seem terrible to me, does anyone else have an opinion or supporting arguments?




Well since you're talking about the Rorqual again I'm going to repost something I said earlier that likely got lost in everything.

Quote:


Further thoughts on the Rorqual.

I think you need to look at it as a ship that can haul a fair amount and get in and out of difficult places. Aside from providing "boosts", practically speaking people are not using it as a mining support ship. The compression pos module also largely negates it's compression role.

I think you should seriously consider the idea of having the jump range be based on the Capital Industrial Skill.

Losing the drone bonus completely wouldn't be a deal breaker, but maybe consider making it a light drone bonus. The idea would be that the ship should be able to get away from a few frogs but not be able to fight of a whole fleet.

Also I had an idea that may or may not be doable. Would it be possible to tie the specialization of the 250k m3 ore hangar to a module of some type?

In other words add a low or high slot and create a module that chooses the specialization of the extra hangar, IE Ore, moon materials, ice products, minerals, fuel blocks. If the module is not fitted the hold is unusable. If you refit to a different specialization, with items in the hangar, you can't undock, or if it happens in space you can't jump out or dock (or maybe move at all).

This would give the rorqual a unique role in being able to move almost as much as a jump freighter, but mostly specialized to a specific category. This would be more suited to intraregional trade, as opposed to hauling everything you need from empire.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1620 - 2014-10-21 12:02:40 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Marcus Tedric wrote:
Valterra Craven's post crystallized an idea for me.....

That logistics is just too easy - and that's why the design intent seems not to match what players then do (sandbox).

The timer and fatigue system does indeed seem to be inelegant and I can understand some players objections. What I don't quite understand is why this ended up being the change needed, when a relatively simple tweak (then with further support changes) might well accomplish the same - and a whole lot more.

Why not tweak jump fuel usage and fuel bay sizes so that Capitals have to refuel every 5(?) LY instead? No timers, no building measures of fatigue - just the need to refuel.

Fuel then has to accompany and or be pre-positioned. Make the Rorqual have a secondary 'refuelling station' role (where the Industrial Core does indeed generate a POS-like shield wherein refuelling takes place). JF and the Rorquals have bigger fuel bays. Other ships, could, have the ability to carry fuel as well.

Large assaults - more fuel.

If it works, then I'd seriously suggest that ALL ships end up using fuel (except capsules). It doesn't have to be the same fuel as jump fuel and could even be an isk-sink. Normal space flight uses a bit of fuel; afterburners and then MWDs yet more propgressively; and warping to gates costs some. All usage dependent on mass.

Real logistics is needed for fuel, ammo and maintenace/replacement. EVE only has a relatively small ammo usage and little maintenance and then some replacement. But fuel is the big driver....

(Author is ex-RL Military Logistics Officer) - also let Rorq's into High Sec with similar properties to JFs - and the on-grid within shields mining boosts; per my earlier post herein.


That's just... Yuck. It wouldn't solve the power teleportation problem - at the worst you'd just have to bring a JF along. It would just add a tedious step. Fuel for all ships traveling anywhere.... How does that add any fun to the game? Rorqs into HS.... and what give them 10LY so they can be the new JF out of Jita???

Technically the best way to deal with everything using fuel would be to link it to energy use, but the problem with that is that it allows for people to become utterly stranded, and as you say, it doesn't add any fun to the game.

I've been playing with suggesting the idea multiple times, and I've just resigned to realizing the fact that EVE isn't the game for it. I'm planning on getting it into a different type of game entirely, however, but I strongly doubt it's a fit for EVE.