Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I couldn't figure out how to load my saved draft ? Anyway for the third time:

Thank you for sharing the vision, and for not taking what I say personal. It's hard for me not to take things personal when I have invested so much time and effort into it.

Second now that I have a vision I feel like I can give feedback rather then WTF back.

A quote from princess bride comes to mind 'Vizzini: 'He didn’t fall?! Inconceivable!' 'Inigo Montoya: 'You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.'
Why the quote? I don't think your proposed changes will have the effect you think it will. Just like the mastermind Vizzini...

Yes limits to jump range probably will cause large swaths of null sec to become unclaimed, but lowering the HP of sov structures will only cause sov to be more easily rolled. If you lived in BFE and a large hostile group came by every day and burned down your house would you stay? no. Sure now they wont use caps they wont need to, they didn't need to in the first place..
You can not eliminate the large fights, as long as there is something worth fighting for. If you want to eliminate huge fights spread out the wealth of null sec systems evenly. I don't think that's the answer though. There should be things worth fighting for. And as long as there are hostile forces there will be people looking to make friends to help protect themselves. You cant stop that.
If you want more fights small scale fights then as you know you have to increase the population of all null sec systems not create large power blocks with the proposed changes to logistics will do.
Sorry for the RL examples but its the best way for me to explain ill try to be as vague as possible:
I have experience working and living where the road system sucks you have to fly on small planes, or ride for hours on boats to get to remote little towns. The place I'm describing, is almost the size of half of the contiguous US, is rich in resources and abundant in wildlife, lots of great perks. Yet the population density is small except in a couple small spots. Why? Because of goods and services, because of the risk of being stuck out in the middle of nowhere and you cant easily resupply all the stuff you want. There has to be a way to get safe, and a way to resupply, I know null sec isnt meant to be safe and i agree. But people have to be able to get to a safe system, maybe not easily, but feasibly. If you know your gunna be stranded, out of gas, in the middle of no where your not making the trip. US history teaches us that when the roads where built , the railroad put in the populations boomed. They built it people went.

If you made a couple high sec systems- markets- in the middle of null sec regions that are in jump range and make it possible for JF to cyno straight into the systems it would create a railroad effect goods would be able to get to market it would be in range for people to fly and fight to get into, being surrounded by null sec. But goods would be available to everyone one. If you build it they will come.

When i fly out to these remote villages that are struggling to get by and go buy food, the costs are crazy, the towns are small. Why because logistics and industry is limited. You shouldn't limit these things if you want the population of null sec and thereby the fights etc etc to grow.

Secondly Its not your job to disrupt logistics. That's the players job. Trust me if its worth it, the players will find a way to disrupt the logistics, you don't have to.
Yes the changes to carriers will make them more intercept-able.. that's cool. But if the isk value of the ship doesn't reflect their ability then that's just ********.
Sov structures don't need re-balanced. They currently reflect what it takes to hold sov. changing them will only cause my house to be burnt down more often. I (the little guys) may have to move..

I know it may be inconceivable
but I don't think that means what you think it means

While I share your concerns (and offer alternate solutions), if your goal is to drive away all of your capital ship flying veterans, and cost CCP lost profit, then your approach appears to be succeeding. I have been on the fence for a while and now realize that I should have thrown in the towel a LONG time ago. You would never get to fixing the pos or the capital ships or null sec, etc etc. If I had only known that my capital skill investment was going to be directly attacked.

I understand and share your concern about the "the largest plausible threat is everyone in nullsec who's not your ally attacks you at the same time". I agree with your assessment that the correct approach is to reduce the threat to "everyone living within two regions who's not your ally attacks you at the same time". But your solution to kill capital movement has so many more broader issues with so many other things that it isn't even funny. Below are two suggestions which delays distant ships from engaging in battle in proportion to the total distance:

My first suggestion (in place of jump fatigue and limitations) is to increase the time required to travel across those distances by having the ships actually travel through the space between the systems and constellations and by allowing those ships to travel to a cyno bookmark (cyno is only needed to create the destination/bookmark coordinates), to bookmarks, or to celestial bodies, to drop out of and to re-enter travel between systems at will (much like entering warp but at ly/hour instead of AU/s). Capital ships and bridged ships would be greatly delayed for combat and thus the combat would finish well before any reinforcements arrived. I prefer this approach because it slows down movement without limiting it and it delays non-targeting influences on battles. You can jump there but the enemy will not have to worry about you for many hours or days (depending on the jump distance).

My second suggestion (instead of jump limitations and fatigue) is to limit combat after the jump so that "jump fatigue" becomes instead "targeting fatigue." During this timer, your ship is unable to target other ships. Combat is addressed without hindering logistics or evac. The inability to target would delay distant ships from directly contributing to distant battles. You can jump there from a distance but the enemy will not have to worry about your dps/ewar/RR/anything for many hours or days.

The existence of B-R has no impact on my skills.

My idea does slow down travel in direct proportion to the distance traveled. For example, if it takes 1 ly/hr then engagements one ly away will have to last 1 hour before the ship can arrive/engage in it. Battles 12 ly away will take 12 hours for players to get there. The travel speed would simply be set so that the time required to travel to "B-R" is sufficient to allow those in the region to win the battle, dominate the field, and pick off everyone directly en route one at a time as they land on grid. Those in the region (short distance travel) who want to engage in the battle sooner can convoy through the stargates like anyone else thus also advancing the goal of encouraging gate travel for pvp.

So with the addition of the tug boat. I.e. a freighter sized ship with a massive sma can we expect to see a techh II version that had the jump freighters abilities. .. I.e. 10 ly jump range an 90% jump fatigue bonus?

Nor I. Hence the reason I feel the effort spent on the changes you are making was mostly a waste.

Cost vs benefit. Making an alt for flying a cap is a long, expensive process. There has to be a big reason to do it. The need for cap alts with the current system is low. With the new system there are two new reasons.
1) Cap ferry alts. Train the alt just enough to sit in the ship. Use the alt to get the ship 10 LY closer to the destination (presumably those 10 LY are in secured space, making the use of a low skill alt viable.)
2) With time that alt will get skilled enough to fight with the ship. Then just position the alt as needed.

Please consider adjusting the rate of fatigue on BLOPS to a more favorable %. The essence of BLOPS (all covert ships) is stealth and ease of movement. Taking gates with a BLOPS is a NO-NO now and will never be a viable option in the future.

Gone will be the days of running four hunters spanning five regions! The days of "Home Defense" BLOPS will be born, which in essence is a stroke of death for BLOPS. The entire attraction of BLOPS is being able to project over a number of regions for hunting. Once intel spikes that "hunters" are active, an area dries up quick and the fleet must move. Further, resetting the fleet for another drop from a main staging system will be nearly impossible. If we adjust and stay in system to wait out a timer and launch from the newly dropped system, we then have a nightmare managing fuel, other supplies, and managing loot.

If the powers that be insist on moving forward with the 50% rate, thereby killing current BLOPS doctrines, then please consider adding a Covert Cloak to BLOPS BS' (gate camp help for those that will use gates) and increase their fuel storage capacity (fuel management for new ways to deploy). Rather than increasing the jump range to 8 LY, keep range as is and increase the fatigue rate to 75%.

EVE has become a MASSIVE TIME SUCK. I run six accounts to try and avoid the suck. These changes make getting to action an even greater TIME SUCK and that's not counting the time to TRAIN, set-up proper fleet logistics, logistics to get SHIPS, logistics to sell LOOT and so many other small time sucks. Nerf capitals and thereby the large groups that project all across EVE in a few minutes, but please let the BLOPS guys do their thing.

Oh and did I mention, electing people to the CSM that don't support BLOPS or think BLOPS provides significant value is a very bad thing? Next CSM, pay very close attention to your votes and find the facts minus the emotion.

That's not my point at all...

you basically asked for them to be turned into a ceptor, which would nullify almost every single thing CCP wants to achieve with these changes....


as I said, some folks might not get the analogy, so let me try to rephrase it for you. :)

CCP and many other folks think that Caps are being used too casually and that the ability to hop, skip and jump across the galaxy in a matter of minutes is detrimental to emergent gameplay and is part of the problem contributing to the stagnation that is predominant in almost all regions of space now.
That is not the ONLY factor, simply one of the factors, and to that end, CCP is implementing a plan to reduce that ability, or place a governor on that ability in order to break up that aspect of the stagnation...
There are of course always drawbacks when improvements are made, and bonuses when drawbacks are made, so the drawbacks of no longer being able to instantly blop the other side of the cosmos comes with the benefit of the ability to travel through gates which allows the fatigue of jump travel to cool off while still allowing the pilot(s) to move their ships.

so in short, they want the use and deployment of those type ships to be strategic, thought out, factored into a greater plan, not continued to be used in the ho hum (drop a titan, super, cap, and subcap fleet on a worm) manner that they are today.

With that, comes the risk of gate travel. (something else that CCP and players want... small conflicts instead of server melting battles every -so -often)

not that it is a factor here, but I have multiple cap pilots on my accounts and I am not crying that CCP is punishing me for all the time I put into training them, nor am I hollering for CCP to reimburse my SP because they are breaking my toy...... I simply look at the whole thing as being something that will make me find new and maybe even better ways to use my caps, or use my caps when the situation warrants it as opposed to using them like my everyday work car (which I don't do anyway)

Hope that makes more sense to you..

o/
Celly Smunt

E: sorry, that drop was on a worm and an Enyo, not just a worm by itself...

I would expect that if these initial changes don't do the trick there will be further changes.
Keep track of fatigue on players and unpackaged ships could be an option.

There are work arounds to that as well, but they start to get costly. And if not costly enough, add an assembly fee each time you assemble a ship.

Use a JF.

So CCP, basically you are saying a big screw you to everybody who can just play at a certain time. Say an hour after work for example, when I come home and before I have to take care of my family.

I cannot use the assets I skilled up for, ground out the credits for and built, because of an imposed cooldown? You played Cellphone games too much? I become basically useless for logistics for my corp and might get rid of my caps alltogether since I will not be able to use them at the time of my chosing. When I am able to play EvE

You are telling me that I'll get penalized for not being able to adhere to your cooldowns and playing when I want to play. Rather you want me to get up in the middle of the night, like it was with skill changing, because I can do a jump?

Not going to happen.

This is lame and might lead to me scrapping my accounts altogether. I want to play when I want to play, not when a stupid cooldown tells me to.