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[Phoebe] Long Distance Travel Changes - updates!

First post First post First post
Author
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1081 - 2014-10-12 07:35:09 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Polo Marco wrote:

And maybe, just maybe, when you are big boys and girls, you will be ready for Eve Online.

From your posting I can see you would like eve to be neither fun, nor a challenge, and would just like to keep the status quo. You don't seem to realise this though, and perhaps you are bringing some of your real life problems into this argument, as to be honest, your last reply is irrelevant when discussing a game, and it sounds just like your bringing your real life butt hurt into the discussion.

Basically they feel superior as a "big boy" (or girl) and want to continue their "winning streak" at eve online or something?

Even the most elitepvp does that through. Should've seen the hilarious titan nerfs for example. Or the "isk on field" theory of supercaps which disappeared after the winning streak it was supposed to explain ended.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Polo Marco
Four Winds
#1082 - 2014-10-12 07:41:34 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:

Eve is a game, and games are played for fun and for a challenge. As with the example before, chess is a game played for fun and for a challenge. This is why every piece isn't a queen which can teleport instantly anywhere on the board, as that would neither be fun, nor a challenge. At the moment, the blue doughnut is neither fun nor a challenge as many people have been complaining about for a while now, hence the proposed changes.

From your posting I can see you would like eve to be neither fun, nor a challenge, and would just like to keep the status quo. You don't seem to realise this though, and perhaps you are bringing some of your real life problems into this argument, as to be honest, your last reply is irrelevant when discussing a game, and it sounds just like your bringing your real life butt hurt into the discussion.


Ah yes but in chess, just like in Eve, even the lowly pawn in the hands of the RIGHT PLAYER can advance to become a queen in its own right.

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.

Polo Marco
Four Winds
#1083 - 2014-10-12 07:54:32 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Polo Marco wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Polo Marco wrote:
Hire some care/null bears. They will make you as many queens as you deserve.
Give them space to work. Give them access to resources and markets and charge them say........ two carriers a month....

RENTERS

The endgame of eve online


OK AF....


Since you apparently failed to understand my last reply post for you. I'll try again. Maybe you'll stop arguing with people who are quoting me long enough to listen.


You have literally SPAT the word renter out of your keyboard since you started posting. We all know about your prejudice.

Now.... suppose you were playing chess, and instead of TWO ROOKS, you had TWO RENTERS. Just like rooks only they are these THINGS that you don't like.

So you take them off the board and try to play without them (EWW cuties or whatever....)

Now, how do you expect to win when you start the game two pieces down?

Maybe this is why you are so unhappy with the game. It seems to me that, since YOU don't like RENTERS (rooks) and can't win without them, that you don't want anyone ELSE to have them either.

Do you think that this is a mature adult response?

Or better yet, EXPLAIN your prejudice. Go ahead, we are listening.

No I love our renters and help them find a nice place in the Greater Western Co-Prosperity sphere. Just check our adverts.

So heh.


OK then next time I have some alts rattling around down in Vale you won't mind if I drop links to some of your posts in local then...

Just to build morale of course ;)

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.

Polo Marco
Four Winds
#1084 - 2014-10-12 08:18:27 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Basically they feel superior as a "big boy" (or girl) and want to continue their "winning streak" at eve online or something?

Even the most elitepvp does that through. Should've seen the hilarious titan nerfs for example. Or the "isk on field" theory of supercaps which disappeared after the winning streak it was supposed to explain ended.


Yeah speaking of hard knocks I've had my 'elitist' (your word not mine) ass handed to me plenty of times in my six years of playing.

This particular toon is more capitalist than anything else. About the only time you see polo in a stabber is when he's got it rigged up with a 100mn MWD (Talk about a recent rule change I LOVED!!!!) trying to see how fast it will go.

Polo's kind of PVP is played out in Jita and trade hubs all over the cluster. His only problem with the donut is he can't dock anywhere he wants to to buy and sell. Some days you make billions...... some days you lose billions.

My instincts for this 'travel change' are whispering "Scam!" in my ear but I have absolutely no evidence to support that.

When actually it's just 'the wrong approach' in disguise. >_>

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1085 - 2014-10-12 08:51:28 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Polo Marco wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Polo Marco wrote:
Hire some care/null bears. They will make you as many queens as you deserve.
Give them space to work. Give them access to resources and markets and charge them say........ two carriers a month....

RENTERS

The endgame of eve online


OK AF....


Since you apparently failed to understand my last reply post for you. I'll try again. Maybe you'll stop arguing with people who are quoting me long enough to listen.


You have literally SPAT the word renter out of your keyboard since you started posting. We all know about your prejudice.

Now.... suppose you were playing chess, and instead of TWO ROOKS, you had TWO RENTERS. Just like rooks only they are these THINGS that you don't like.

So you take them off the board and try to play without them (EWW cuties or whatever....)

Now, how do you expect to win when you start the game two pieces down?

Maybe this is why you are so unhappy with the game. It seems to me that, since YOU don't like RENTERS (rooks) and can't win without them, that you don't want anyone ELSE to have them either.

Do you think that this is a mature adult response?

Or better yet, EXPLAIN your prejudice. Go ahead, we are listening.

No I love our renters and help them find a nice place in the Greater Western Co-Prosperity sphere. Just check our adverts.

So heh.

The interesting thing will be the coming sov changes and how long it takes these renters to realize, they don't need to pay rent to anyone, just hold sov.

Unless renters are really stupid (which I doubt) landlords are going to need to commit a lot of force to ensure the rent is paid.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

SpikeyWelsh
The Malleus Maleficarum
Random Violence.
#1086 - 2014-10-12 09:27:25 UTC
Dear CCP fozzie,

I would like to ask you when you gonne implement the jumpfuel reduction low slot mods that you prommised a while ago.


Thanks for the 10ly !!

Regards
Spikey
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#1087 - 2014-10-12 10:54:26 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

The interesting thing will be the coming sov changes and how long it takes these renters to realize, they don't need to pay rent to anyone, just hold sov.

Unless renters are really stupid (which I doubt) landlords are going to need to commit a lot of force to ensure the rent is paid.


Years ago in my twenties I was living in a cheap place owned by a drunk who was always blustering at me to pay the rent or else. I finally moved two blocks over where I had to pay fifty dollars more for a smaller place. The savings weren't worth his attitude and I stiffed him for his last month's rent because I knew I'd never get my deposit back from him. I just didn't like him, and he'd cross the street when he saw me coming.

It would seem to me that it's a better idea to get your renters to fight FOR you rather than WITH you.

Just Sayin'


Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.

Plukovnik
korpa pYco
pYco.
#1088 - 2014-10-12 12:44:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Plukovnik
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Plukovnik wrote:
ADarwinAward Winner wrote:
9 LY lets jump freighters cover most of the regional gaps. Don't go all the way to 10.


That is very bad idea. 9Ly would be very small handicap for nullsec sov holders, but terrible pain for Stain residents, because there would be no way to reach Stain than taking way via enemy territory, which is crazy with JF. And making something that would mean just minor hassle to sov holders near Stain, but mean total unreachability of Stain for Stain residents is not very fair is it? I even think that CCP should add some 2-3 lowsec systems with good stations (Saminer has kickout station I think) in distance below 10Ly from Stain to make life of Stain residents little bit possible and not make it that way that Stain would actually be inhabittable only by those who hold Catch.

Why can we not have one region which is difficult to access with jump freighter. CCP could then use it as a test bed to see how things adapt.


I believe, yes. But my vote is to keep JF jumpdistance at 5Ly. If it should be raised, then to 10 Ly. Not something in between. And again - I believe JF jumping more than 5Ly is wrong. It will make the current situation static, as corporations in many cases use JFs to import minerals available in their space or repackaged Caracals. Ship worth billions should be used for rare occasions to transport either absolute necessities or in case of extremely urgent needs, not for regular supply of huge amount of noobs with cheap ships. Caracal purchased in Branch should cost three times more than in empire, not Jita +10%.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1089 - 2014-10-12 13:55:43 UTC
Polo Marco wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

The interesting thing will be the coming sov changes and how long it takes these renters to realize, they don't need to pay rent to anyone, just hold sov.

Unless renters are really stupid (which I doubt) landlords are going to need to commit a lot of force to ensure the rent is paid.


Years ago in my twenties I was living in a cheap place owned by a drunk who was always blustering at me to pay the rent or else. I finally moved two blocks over where I had to pay fifty dollars more for a smaller place. The savings weren't worth his attitude and I stiffed him for his last month's rent because I knew I'd never get my deposit back from him. I just didn't like him, and he'd cross the street when he saw me coming.

It would seem to me that it's a better idea to get your renters to fight FOR you rather than WITH you.

Just Sayin'



Of course it is better to have them fighting for you but if they are fighting for you why would they or should they pay rent?



My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Praal
Bearded BattleBears
#1090 - 2014-10-12 13:55:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Praal
Ranger 1 wrote:
The point was made above that it will be more difficult to ferry ships and materials out of an area that is about to be overrun.

To be blunt, this is actually more damaging to larger entities that have massive stockpiles built up... smaller entities will have a much more manageable task to deal with in that regard.

While it may be a bigger ISK loss for those large entities, it's a far more devastating one for the small ones and a much harder one to recover from.

Smaller entities also may have no option to ever recover those assets, unlike a large entitiy that could muster the forces if the effort is needed and retake the station, or negotiate a mutual evac deal, etc.
Praal
Bearded BattleBears
#1091 - 2014-10-12 14:02:27 UTC
Polo Marco wrote:
[quote=Sgt Ocker]It would seem to me that it's a better idea to get your renters to fight FOR you rather than WITH you.

Except renters are rarely interested in fighting. If they were they could get far more permissive use of space in the actual coalitions without having to pay rent.
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#1092 - 2014-10-12 14:29:29 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Polo Marco wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

The interesting thing will be the coming sov changes and how long it takes these renters to realize, they don't need to pay rent to anyone, just hold sov.

Unless renters are really stupid (which I doubt) landlords are going to need to commit a lot of force to ensure the rent is paid.


Years ago in my twenties I was living in a cheap place owned by a drunk who was always blustering at me to pay the rent or else. I finally moved two blocks over where I had to pay fifty dollars more for a smaller place. The savings weren't worth his attitude and I stiffed him for his last month's rent because I knew I'd never get my deposit back from him. I just didn't like him, and he'd cross the street when he saw me coming.

It would seem to me that it's a better idea to get your renters to fight FOR you rather than WITH you.

Just Sayin'



Of course it is better to have them fighting for you but if they are fighting for you why would they or should they pay rent?





Access to blue jump stations, a large regional market, local intel, neighbors who will help running off neuts, not to mention some of the sov structures have to be moved in real freighters, always better done with groups. If it wasn't worth it why would people pay?. Cooperative force usually trumps force by itself.

If the blocks are too big there are better ways to break them up than by hobbling the games signature ships. Force and force projection are less than 10% of the glue that holds the megacorps together. Crippling them does much more to curtail the freedom of small entities than it ever will to weaken the megacorps.

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.

Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1093 - 2014-10-12 15:01:07 UTC
Praal wrote:
Polo Marco wrote:
[quote=Sgt Ocker]It would seem to me that it's a better idea to get your renters to fight FOR you rather than WITH you.

Except renters are rarely interested in fighting. If they were they could get far more permissive use of space in the actual coalitions without having to pay rent.

N3PL renters are the free-est people in this game who live in 0.0.
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#1094 - 2014-10-12 15:10:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Polo Marco
Praal wrote:
Polo Marco wrote:
[quote=Sgt Ocker]It would seem to me that it's a better idea to get your renters to fight FOR you rather than WITH you.

Except renters are rarely interested in fighting. If they were they could get far more permissive use of space in the actual coalitions without having to pay rent.



If space was an issue. But it's not. There is five, maybe TEN times as much space left in nullsec as its current population can utilize. Plenty of fleet roams still happen, and when their space is attacked they fight HARD for it. But one of the things blue space does is give players who don't want to fight all the time the freedom to do other things.

The biggest things that set the 'haves' apart from the 'have-nots' are organization, economics, and personal player freedom. When those things go away then the people, F1 alts and nullbear alts alike will just go somewhere else to play.

Every time some Warlord Willie comes through, wins sov, and proclaims local market standards, then starts telling everyone what they are going to make he always ends up angry because no one wants to play with him. Breaking the game to keep him happy won't last long. He'll just drum up another fleet of bored players and go make the same mistakes he did the first time. It's not the game's fault that he gets a steady diet of pew pew and nothing else.


Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your failures.

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.

Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1095 - 2014-10-12 15:10:43 UTC
Arronicus wrote:

Without knowing your future plans for the ship, aside from the obvious need for a cycle time reduction on industrial cores (perhaps 60 seconds, and 45 seconds on a t2 variant? Hmm? Some reason to finally train the skill beyond 1, given that there is no worthwhile benefit right now), the drone bonus seems like the better of the two to have.

Boo - the Rorq needs a 30 minute timer.

Step 1: find virgin belt
Step 2: siege for 30 minutes
Step 3: the belt is gone, having been compressed and stored in your ore bay
Step 4: if still alive, warp out
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1096 - 2014-10-12 15:18:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Praal wrote:
Except renters are rarely interested in fighting. If they were they could get far more permissive use of space in the actual coalitions without having to pay rent.

We've had some renters join CFC member alliances before. Though admittedly, it would be harder for them to move their ships to their new home after the changes Lol


Ironically, some of the alliances in some other coalition ended up giving most of their space to be rented, so they fight and are either making their money in highsec, or they're also renting from their own bloc.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Praal
Bearded BattleBears
#1097 - 2014-10-12 15:58:25 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
N3PL renters are the free-est people in this game who live in 0.0.

Depends on how you look at it. If PvP participation isn't a `cost` then members get access to more systems for no cost.

Alavaria Fera wrote:
Ironically, some of the alliances in some other coalition ended up giving most of their space to be rented, so they fight and are either making their money in highsec, or they're also renting from their own bloc.

I can't speak to how this may have changed in the last 8mo or so, but when I was in N3 there were plenty of systems to rat/mine/industry/explore in very close to staging that were available for member use.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1098 - 2014-10-12 19:40:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Praal wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
N3PL renters are the free-est people in this game who live in 0.0.

Depends on how you look at it. If PvP participation isn't a `cost` then members get access to more systems for no cost.

Alavaria Fera wrote:
Ironically, some of the alliances in some other coalition ended up giving most of their space to be rented, so they fight and are either making their money in highsec, or they're also renting from their own bloc.

I can't speak to how this may have changed in the last 8mo or so, but when I was in N3 there were plenty of systems to rat/mine/industry/explore in very close to staging that were available for member use.

I think they were hinting more along the lines of "RED PEN CTA", and not "hey there's some BL dreads to jump, join fleet"


I think there has been some reallocation that took place since then... which is what I was referring to. I might not necessarily have been referring to N3 (or maybe I was). There's only two big rental alliances in the east so take your pick, both have space that their landlord's "allies" were living in

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1099 - 2014-10-12 20:18:42 UTC
While I realize it's probably too late at this point, I really think the proposal to allow Titans and Supercarriers to use warp gates should be scrapped entirely. It simply extends power projection far too much for these classes of ships, and in any event can be addressed at a later date with Titan and Supercarrier-capable player-constructed jump gates.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Nofearion
Tr0pa de elite.
Pandemic Horde
#1100 - 2014-10-12 21:57:31 UTC
this question may not seem to be related to the jump nerf, however I believe it is.
CCP Greyscale, has any thought been given to increasing the CPU of Player owned Towers? or a reduction of CPU usage by reactors, assembly arrays ect.?