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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Phoebe] Long Distance Travel Changes - updates!

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Author
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#301 - 2014-10-09 21:07:01 UTC
Given that freight rorquals can only carry about 40% of JFs cargo, would it be a good idea to give them a stronger jump fatigue role bonus than JFs ? (Genuine question, I don't know what you have in store to make Rorquals useful, and I hope that its sooner rather than later!)

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Praal
Bearded BattleBears
#302 - 2014-10-09 21:07:40 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Rorquals will stay at 5LY/90%[edit 19:21 added bullet point 5 to first list]

The Rorqual is presently far more useful as a local null logistics ship than as a drone ship. Especially with a desire for null industry to flourish, this is a very important role for it.

With this in mind I would suggest the following:

  • Remove the drone bonus
  • Remove the 90% jump distance reduction for purposes of fatigue
  • Add a mineral bay in addition to the ore bay
  • Add a -0.4LY jump distance reduction per level of Cpital Industrial Ships (to a min of 0) for purpose of fatigue


This positions it as a ship that is great for local industrial logistics in <2 LY range (ore to refinery, minerals to factory, products to the local market) but significantly inferior to the jump freighter for long range (cannot enter hisec, 1/3 the capacity, 5x or more the cynos needed if one wanted to exploit its free short jumps for long-range travel).
Dwissi
Miners Delight Reborn
#303 - 2014-10-09 21:08:05 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
Dwissi wrote:
Dream Five wrote:


Were you seriously planning to invest tens of billions into local production for just 10-100 guys in your far-away region?
That seems irrational from a business perspective.
You'd need hundreds of BPOs and huge stockpiles of lots and lots of different materials to be self-sustaining.

Tbh maybe I just don't understand the vision of self-sustaining 0.0 industry but seems like the ROI would be so bad that it would still be better to do logistics no matter how difficult it is, at least for some stuff. And then you'd just bring everything you need anyway.



This is what we 'others' complain about - the changes where opening up for more diverse gameplay again- with the current way only one way to play is feasible. ROI is not always measured in isk you know - there are actually players who do things just because they can be done - not necessarily because they are best isk per "insert favourite time length here".

If i would just speak for myself - and i know i am not the only one anyways - then i rather manufacture my ass of for no isk at all but for a real purpose that might support some actual group effort. Same goes for anything you might imagine - its not only shooting at things - even if many people still seem to believe that. ROI can also be measured in 'i can deliver everything the locals need' - it just depends on what your investment was meant for. With current logistics the gameplay of 'being self-sufficient' has been basically deleted.


I also don't understand how CCP expects at the same time having less stability/stagnation/blue donut in 0.0 and wanting more 0.0 production :) Those are opposite goals. If the environment is unstable you have to be completely irrational to invest capital in local manufacturing knowing that your POS/outpost might get captured anyday/hour now :)



risk = reward - thats the answer :)

Proud designer of glasses for geeky dovakins

Before someone complains again: grr everyone

Greed is the death of loyalty

BugraT WarheaD
#304 - 2014-10-09 21:08:53 UTC
Man ... That's so sad, i loved that ballsy changes you were trying to make, but i'm sad to see that nullsec empires always get what they want, even if it's not for the good of the game.
Belinda HwaFang
Iris Kinetics - Aquisitions
#305 - 2014-10-09 21:08:55 UTC
Quote:


Just get into the business of industry for awhile. Everyone forgets all those T2 goodies, hulls and supplies that areas depend on are supplied by us "renters", "carebears" or whatever name you would like to label us. This is still a hell of a nerf for rorqual pilots. Going to be tough as hell to get it out of null once its there.


I have no problem with T2 ship and module prices going through the roof, I played back when T2 was a very expensive luxury, I can do it again. Things will balance out in time given that CCP should already be thinking about changes to T2 to support these mobility nerfs.

The bigger risk here is that CCP will leave the changes at this, not touch moon goo, and the "all trade through Jita" model continues.

I could actually live with the JF buff if they rethought their position about industrial ships using bridges at 90% fatigue reduction...
xttz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#306 - 2014-10-09 21:09:00 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:

The way I figure it will work, is you get an dictor on both sides of the gate, and then it will be a matter of the dictor locking and using the infinite point on the super cap before the pilot can initiate jump drive. I imagine due to lag, and slow reactions, you would actually catch quite a few with this method.

Feel free to test this on Sisi.

Then please come back and post here when it doesn't work at all.
The Ironfist
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#307 - 2014-10-09 21:10:08 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Good idea. It's been a while since I messed with nullsec anomalies. I think I remember how to do it...


I don't think the problem is what is in the Ore Anomalies but what is in the ORE itself. We need more Low and Mid minerals and less high minerals. Right now all Ore anomalies worth a while (Industry 3+) contain 50,74% to 60% of their value in high minerals which seems to be un-balanced. But simply adding more low-min ore won't solve that issue really it will only lead to miners earning even less. Which means reducing the amount of high minerals contained in ABC-ORE while increasing the low and mid minerals contained could be a while option to explore.
whatsin aname01
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#308 - 2014-10-09 21:11:06 UTC
Lallante wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:

If CCP had a nickle for every threat of players unsubbing over various changes they wouldn't need any players.


Its the same people every time, too. Just how many times can the same guy unsub his 14 accounts?

Mor Rioghainn wrote:
hoping you are tracking subscriber numbers as much as you dont care about people enjoying eve


can you make star citzen beta key purchasable with plex maybe please?


///////////////////////////////////////////////post in advance///////////////////////////////////////////////////
gj on rorqual nerf , great game design ,love it

still 10 accounts less


Quoting this in case you try to delete it later. Delicious tears.


Well I know for a fact someone who has allready done that to be exactly 14 accounts! I know I canceled 1. I know some people who never talked about quiting, but are seriously considering to completely quit the game.

Those last ones are about 6 accounts, not sure but according to me this is allready happening. For a fact did consider another account but didn't. Another fact I jumped my stuff out of 0 to low sec 1 jump from high.

I believe some will not quit, some will even like the changes. I personaly don't . Do I consider to go to 0.0 because of this change well certainly not anymore!
Logistics will be a crime and carriers well don't bother to use them for anyting else but a gatecamp.
Edisonn Trent
White Noise.
#309 - 2014-10-09 21:11:43 UTC
BugraT WarheaD wrote:
Man ... That's so sad, i loved that ballsy changes you were trying to make, but i'm sad to see that nullsec empires always get what they want, even if it's not for the good of the game.


Never seen this work in real life though - if you scream and cry in front of people long enough they won't give you stuff, they'll have you committed.
Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#310 - 2014-10-09 21:11:57 UTC
Edisonn Trent wrote:

Or, set up jumpclones in important areas of the donut, fill 50 emergency jfs with battleships, 50 more with t1 cruisers and tacles, boom, empire defended.


Because empires are always succesfully defended with T1 BS and Cruisers.

You might want to re-think your theory.


It's called setting up stockpiles of ships ahead of time in key locations with jump clones located there. Then jump clone to your stock piled ships if necessary.

Moving JF's after the invasion has already begun is, honestly, too late.


"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.  He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#311 - 2014-10-09 21:12:06 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Industrials are paper thin.

orly?
Mauvian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#312 - 2014-10-09 21:13:56 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
David Magnus wrote:
These do address some of the bigger concerns, thanks for taking the time to post about these!
Have there been changes to death-clone camping, or did I miss that in a different thread?


Death clone camping is handled by the new medical clone changes that are being implemented right now. The short version is that you'll always be able to intentionally revoke your clone contract somewhere and have it reset to your rookie system.

wait what, where is this


On Nullarbor's computer, currently.

Also, to everyone who was wondering whether or not I listened, I read 4000 freaking posts by myself. Whether or not I agreed with the concerns was an open question, but I hope it was obvious from my posting that I was paying attention!



You were clearly paying attention. We appreciate it regardless of if the final changes are what we screamed about.

That siad the JFer and Blops were my only big concerns with the proposed changes. I am glad they were addressed!
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#313 - 2014-10-09 21:16:23 UTC
xttz wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:

The way I figure it will work, is you get an dictor on both sides of the gate, and then it will be a matter of the dictor locking and using the infinite point on the super cap before the pilot can initiate jump drive. I imagine due to lag, and slow reactions, you would actually catch quite a few with this method.

Feel free to test this on Sisi.

Then please come back and post here when it doesn't work at all.

Its ok, ill just take your word for it. In that case, a spool up for jumping to a cyno seems the obvious solution then.
soomon
UnHoly C0nF3SSi0ns
SE7EN-SINS
#314 - 2014-10-09 21:16:38 UTC
I cant judge the changes THAT well as I am not living in 0.0 yet, but It shows that you listen to you player base (and with that I exclude all those useless "I will unsub" posts) and I wanna thank you for that!
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#315 - 2014-10-09 21:17:21 UTC
As for the Rorqual, consider this:
- 10 LY range;
- no fatigue bonuses.
Edisonn Trent
White Noise.
#316 - 2014-10-09 21:17:33 UTC
Taram Caldar wrote:
Edisonn Trent wrote:

Or, set up jumpclones in important areas of the donut, fill 50 emergency jfs with battleships, 50 more with t1 cruisers and tacles, boom, empire defended.


Because empires are always succesfully defended with T1 BS and Cruisers.

You might want to re-think your theory.


It's called setting up stockpiles of ships ahead of time in key locations with jump clones located there. Then jump clone to your stock piled ships if necessary.

Moving JF's after the invasion has already begun is, honestly, too late.



You seriously believe anyone with hundreds of caps is going to suddenly appear and invade goons or their pets? Besides, when they get bored, and they will, they can just create a base of operations from thin air in a matter of hours. Still enough to take on most sov space wannabes.
Gallinari
PJ Ind.
#317 - 2014-10-09 21:17:51 UTC
Awesome changes and I, like you, read every friggin page in the other thread.
Katrin BarRiona
State War Academy
Caldari State
#318 - 2014-10-09 21:20:20 UTC
Okay, exemplary.
Carro Orta member of a small alliance, alliance is going to be protected POS\Station\other.
Carro have 2 variants:
1. Use gates - 30 jumps.
2. Use bridges - 2\3 bridges.
Carro use bridges, dock in stage system, reship, and warp to titan, who can portall him to battle.
AndAttention Oops, no Carro, you're tired, go away, resting.
Not good.
SUNscatcher
Bumblin Bees
#319 - 2014-10-09 21:20:31 UTC
ROFL I am glad I was able to play eve when the game was an open sandbox. over the years there has been change after change forcing people to play eve the way ccp envisions eve should be played. but that's all water under the bridge and eve has stood the test of time with numbers continuing to increase and subscription costs rising higher than ever. enjoy the changes all you happy posters but I can't imagine why anyone would want to be a capital pilot after this goes through. the manta is so true .....

IF ITS FUN CCP WILL FIND IT AND TAKE IT OUT OF THE GAME!
Lallante
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#320 - 2014-10-09 21:22:02 UTC
SUNscatcher wrote:
ROFL I am glad I was able to play eve when the game was an open sandbox. over the years there has been change after change forcing people to play eve the way ccp envisions eve should be played. but that's all water under the bridge and eve has stood the test of time with numbers continuing to increase and subscription costs rising higher than ever. enjoy the changes all you happy posters but I can't imagine why anyone would want to be a capital pilot after this goes through. the manta is so true .....

IF ITS FUN CCP WILL FIND IT AND TAKE IT OUT OF THE GAME!



It's kinda weird how all the quitters have the same awful grammar and syntax.